Canada's immigration policy.

Wild Bill · May 22, 2009

This is a common misassumption in the West, and both capitalists and socialists are often guilty of it. Competition is not necessarily synonymous with efficiency. I remember reading one report that had suggested that government restrictions on cigarette advertising had actually helped the tobacco industry, and here is why:

So why should a company try to be more efficient if not to lower its costs so that it's profit margin is higher?

Why should there be competition? Well, as a consumer, I want to buy the better product at the better price. I get infuriated if I buy something that looks good but turns out to be junk! So I seek another producer. Is that not competition?

If there is a company with a better product with perhaps a better price, how am I expected to know about it if there is no advertising?

Remember Machjo, 50% of consumers are guys and we HATE browsing! Women may shop for entertainment but men shop with a mission. We tend to do a little research as to where we can find what we want at the best price, drive there, buy it and then get the hell out!

I boycotted a local mall for over 20 years because it was the only one in the area that for some reason would not put up a directory. If I couldn't quickly find what I was looking for I refused to go there at all.

If the world went your way I think I would never buy anything ever again!

Mind you, I could use with buying a bit less food...

benny · May 22, 2009

If imported goods can increase our welfare so is immigration.

Chuck U. Farlie · May 22, 2009

I don't know what the government's immigration policy should be, but the current way of encouraging immigrants to retain their culture is going to come back to bite us in the ass.

Check out this story from today's national post... The author said 'hi' to his neighbour in his condo - just being friendly. She is hardcore muslim and complained to her master (oops! I mean husband), who then proceeded to threaten the author with death. That is a nice cultural trait to retain, isn't it? I think I will start whistling at and making cat-calls to all the muslim burkka wearing woman who live in my building.... just to stir the pot.

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-p...tml?id=1618828

When the landlady of my Toronto apartment building said an outraged neighbour had filed a complaint about me over an apparently inappropriate hallway interaction with his wife, my mind raced through the countless conversations I've had with fellow tenants, none of which seemed a possible source of offence.
It turns out, it wasn't a salacious transaction that had caused the complaint, but rather a neighbourly and -- to me -- entirely forgettable greeting, little more than a brief "good morning" as I passed my neighbours on the way to work.

Still, it was enough of an affront for the man -- once a doctor somewhere in the Middle East, my landlady clarified -- to feel I had broken a cultural taboo. The incident started an awkward feud which has involved warnings not to repeat my indiscretion and one face-to-face shouting match, which included allusions to my impending death.

I expect the battle will wage on, as we appear to be stuck at an impasse.

His Muslim upbringing has ingrained in him a sense of entitlement to demand I not speak directly to his wife; and my prairie upbringing has ingrained in me a duty to strive for polite cohesion with my neighbours.

My landlady, who has handled the complaint with tittering trepidation, hasn't helped dispel the friction. She has told me to adhere to the demands because the man "could be dangerous," directing me to literally turn my back to the couple as they pass, never make eye contact and never hold the elevator for them, no matter what.

benny · May 22, 2009

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-p...tml?id=1618828

This link doesn't work.

Machjo · May 22, 2009

Well, to begin with, your definition is at odds with the generally accepted definition of racism as the belief in the genetic superiority of one race over another.
Also, I do not think very many Canadians dislike/distrust visible minorities on the basis of a belief in either genetic or moral superiority. I think that, for the most part, dislike/distrust/suspicion of non-whites arises out of personal experiences with a particular group, experiences related to individuals by peers and family, and perceptions which come through the various entertainment and news media. I am sure, for example, that there are some honest, hard-working Somalians who don't think that all white women are whores. But as someone who lived in a neighborhood which was about 50% Somalian, and worked with a number of Somalians I just haven't met one yet. So my perceptions of Somalians in general are influenced by my experiences and those related to me by others who have dealt with Somalians. Do I think Somalians are morally inferior to us? Well, generally speaking, yes. Not because of skin colouration, but because of the nature of the society in which they were raised. Do I think they're genetically inferior to us? No. I certainly think they're inferior to us overall, however, in terms of say education and cultural enlightenment.

On the other hand, I have no personal experiences with Jamaicans. There isn't a high population of them in Ottawa. My impression of Jamaicans is almost entirely media driven - with the exception of friends who have been to Jamaica. Again, my impression is not good. People tell me that everyone in Jamaica is on the take, and everywhere they went people tried to rip them off. And in media, well, Jamaicans are heavily into illegal narcotics, prostitution and street gangs. Do I think, therefore, that they are "morally" inferior? Yes, but again, that has zero to do with their skin pigmentation.

What do I think of people from Botswana? Nothing whatever at the moment. I have read nothing about them, nor had any personal experiences, nor has anyone related any personal experiences, favorable or unfavorable

You see how this works?

Broadly speaking almost all people have a general preference to be in the company of individuals who are of a similar culture and value set.

I would say I was aware of the possibility going into the interview. The man's age was an unexpected factor, and that added to my concern. Middle aged men, or men approaching middle age, even in our culture can have a problem taking orders from a young woman half their age. But the fact he shrugged off her questions, and mostly paid attention to the males, and that even with us his answers tended to be evasive and generalized worked against him. He wouldn't have gotten the job even if he was lilly white with the way he was acting. But how much of the way he was acting was due to his cultural background? The point I'm making is that if visible minority members have difficulties getting hired - and some do - it's more likely related to cultural problems in communication as opposed to employers not liking their skin colour. And the worse your English is, the harsher your accent, the less likely you are to be hired for any position. It should be noted that visible minority immigrants from certain nations have a hard time getting jobs, while visible minority immigrants from others have a considerably less difficult time. It can't all just be dismissed as colour.

Everything you say above is quite legitimate in my opinion. I generalized ideas about certain groups too based on past experience, but am still aware of my prejudices and counteract them by consciously giving each an equal chance to prove himself. You do the same it seems. perhaps just a misunderstanding then. Of course we all have prejudices, as long as we're aware of them and make a consicous effort to overcome them, which I do all the time, and by what you've typed, you do the same too. I see no problem with that. You still gave him his chance to prove himself and he failed on his own merits.

I also fully agree that communication is important, and as such it's the responsibility of the candidate to possess a strong command of the company's official or de facto language of internal administration along with whatever other language the company might expect from the immigrant. And I fully agree that that is a legitimate criteria. Clear communication is too important in any organization.

benny · May 22, 2009

I also fully agree that communication is important, and as such it's the responsibility of the candidate to possess a strong command of the company's official or de facto language of internal administration along with whatever other language the company might expect from the immigrant. And I fully agree that that is a legitimate criteria. Clear communication is too important in any organization.

With its immigration policy, a state should not try to simply serve organizations. Organizations are mainly competitive devices and communication is mainly a cooperative device. We have to think at immigration criteria where international competition is replaced by more and more international cooperation.

Oleg Bach · May 22, 2009

With its immigration policy, a state should not try to simply serve organizations. Organizations are mainly competitive devices and communication is mainly a cooperative device. We have to think at immigration criteria where international competition is replaced by more and more international cooperation.

We don't need international co-operation - we need domestic internal co-operation - like saying to the Tamils in Toronto - Hey - get along - we will work it out now stop screwing up the city" Having tons of different people from many nations within one nation does not really improve communicatoins with other nations on a national level - It only allows to exist what is on a personal communication level - we could barely contain the Tamil protests - do we need more immigrants?

benny · May 22, 2009

We don't need international co-operation - we need domestic internal co-operation - like saying to the Tamils in Toronto - Hey - get along - we will work it out now stop screwing up the city" Having tons of different people from many nations within one nation does not really improve communicatoins with other nations on a national level - It only allows to exist what is on a personal communication level - we could barely contain the Tamil protests - do we need more immigrants?

A state is a security agency and as such it needs domestic cooperation mostly when international cooperation towards peace is deficient.

Leafless · May 22, 2009

We have to think at immigration criteria where international competition is replaced by more and more international cooperation.

Who the hell does 'we' include.

I say bring back Canada's 1910 Immigration Act to deny entry to those 'who were not suited to the climate or CUSTOMS of Canada'.

benny · May 22, 2009

Who the hell does 'we' include.
I say bring back Canada's 1910 Immigration Act to deny entry to those 'who were not suited to the climate or CUSTOMS of Canada'.

Only a child at his lowest moral development stage cannot yet understand that to keep and have fun in his sandbox, he has to share it with others out of goodwill, not out of obvious self-interest.

Edited May 22, 2009 by benny

CANADIEN · May 23, 2009

Who the hell does 'we' include.
I say bring back Canada's 1910 Immigration Act to deny entry to those 'who were not suited to the climate or CUSTOMS of Canada'.

Starting with immigrants from Estern Europe, immigrants from Southern Europe, or Jewish immigrants? Thet were deemd less desirable then.

Edited May 23, 2009 by CANADIEN

benny · May 23, 2009

If we, westerners, have problems with Middle East immigration, it is not because we are culturally so far apart; it is, on the contrary, because they are our neighbors since the dawn of our civilization.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/presssite/me...;bookkey=168188

Argus · May 23, 2009

If we, westerners, have problems with Middle East immigration, it is not because we are culturally so far apart; it is, on the contrary, because they are our neighbors since the dawn of our civilization.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/presssite/me...;bookkey=168188

Maybe someone should tell them that it's not nice to rape and murder your neighbours.

Argus · May 23, 2009

BTW, THIS is a consequence of current immigration policy.

benny · May 23, 2009

Maybe someone should tell them that it's not nice to rape and murder your neighbours.

You have been murder!?

Smallc · May 23, 2009

BTW, THIS is a consequence of current immigration policy.

No, that's a result of the continued fear that followed September 11th. Canada has more problems coming north than the US does going south in terms of crime and illegal weapons.

Argus · May 23, 2009

No, that's a result of the continued fear that followed September 11th. Canada has more problems coming north than the US does going south in terms of crime and illegal weapons.

If it weren't for our heavy and uncontrolled immigrant presence, especially Muslims, the US would not feel any need for this nonsense at the border. But they're well aware that any terrorist can simply take a plane to Montreal, say the magic word "refugee" and be on the street a couple of hours later with money in his pocket, all set to meet up with his friends and sneak across the US border.

We have NO border controls on people who enter Canada from third countries. Even when we haven't got a clue who they are because they've torn up their identity papers. Unless they have a record which is detected when they claim refugee status (rare) they are simply all let go to do as they choose.

Leafless · May 23, 2009

No, that's a result of the continued fear that followed September 11th. Canada has more problems coming north than the US does going south in terms of crime and illegal weapons.

I wonder what your response would be if 9/11 happened in Canada rather than the U.S.

The U.S is well aware of the problems of a porous border:

But Napolitano said that the two borders share similar concerns regarding security, trade, illegal entry, and drug smuggling.
“We need to deal with circumstances on the ground. On the southern border it means protecting against drug cartel violence in combating illegal entry…. We’ve added more personal and technology. We’ve created a southbound strategy to stop the flow of guns and bulk cash into Mexico,” she said.

Napolitano said that the U.S. is providing new technology for Canada and have added five new U.S. Customs and Border Protection Marine and air branches, and 24 integrated border enforcement teams that include Canadian law enforcement officials.

“We don’t want to damage economic security in the name of homeland security,” she said.

Napolitano also spoke about the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, which will require all travelers coming into the U.S. from Canada or Mexico to present a passport or other document that denotes identity and citizenship.

“These are real borders, this is a real law, and I am really charged with implementing it and I take that charge very seriously,” she said.

http://talkradionews.com/2009/04/napolitan...north-to-south/

Edited May 23, 2009 by Leafless

Smallc · May 23, 2009

If it weren't for our heavy and uncontrolled immigrant presence, especially Muslims, the US would not feel any need for this nonsense at the border.

Americans won't dictate Canadian immigration policy....and neither will people like you.

Smallc · May 23, 2009

The U.S is well aware of the problems a porous border:

Given the problems on their southern border, they had better be aware of those problems.

Leafless · May 23, 2009

Given the problems on their southern border, they had better be aware of those problems.

Thanks to globalist like you who also can't even recognize what 250k mainly ethnic non-white immigrants are doing to Canada.

Smallc · May 23, 2009

Thanks to globalist like you who also can't even recognize what 250k mainly ethnic non-white immigrants are doing to Canada.

What do people like me have to do with the US illegal immigration problem. Your discrimination against certain sections of the human race is more than disturbing.

Leafless · May 23, 2009

What do people like me have to do with the US illegal immigration problem.

Latino's (or any other ethnic group) in pursuit of a better lifestyle is something, illegal or not, is part of a globalist ideologies.

Are you now denying that you do not support globalism?

Your discrimination against certain sections of the human race is more than disturbing.

As part of a White minority I think White Canadians (and Americans) are perfectly entitled and within their rights to protect their Western culture and race from being overtaken by majority non-whites.

Smallc · May 23, 2009

As part of a White minority I think White Canadians (and Americans) are perfectly entitled and within their rights to protect their Western culture and race from being overtaken by majority non-whites.

What is Canada's white culture? Canada has a culture, or cultures, that was created by immigrants....and that continues to this day.