Darwin

[Sleipnir]

DID ANYONE EVER OBSERVE SOMETHING COMING OUT FROM NOTHING?

Answer the question already, guys....so we can proceed. Otherwise we're stuck here.

I don't know why you seem to be afraid of answering a simple yes or no. C'mon, who's brave enough to come forward and tackle it.

Yes or no?

That has already been answered in the bible thread.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Sleipnir

[cybercoma]

Oh, that so-much abused word. Or maybe in your case, misunderstood.

Just the same way you misunderstand domestication and natural selection.

Your definition of a "troll" is someone who makes a valid point that you cannot refute, or argue with.

"Trolling" to you is a valid point that exposes you, and that which you cannot refute, or argue with.

In other words, a fact that you do not agree with.

Nuff said.

Back to the topic.

Mighty AC? WIP? The Choir?

DID ANYONE EVER OBSERVE SOMETHING COMING OUT FROM NOTHING?

Answer the question already, guys....so we can proceed. Otherwise we're stuck here.

I don't know why you seem to be afraid of answering a simple yes or no. C'mon, who's brave enough to come forward and tackle it.

Yes or no?

I didn't' misunderstand anything, betsy. That is what's so ironic about your post, if you are indeed being serious. I highly doubt it though because that would make you illiterate. Which only leaves one conclusion, you're trolling. And poorly at that.

[The_Squid]

DID ANYONE EVER OBSERVE SOMETHING COMING OUT FROM NOTHING?

You really need to get a new shtick.

Watch the videos Betsy.

[Sleipnir]

Watch the videos Betsy.

Can you post the video again for her?

[The_Squid]

She should read Krauss' book "A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing".

http://www.amazon.ca/Universe-Nothing-There-Something-Rather/dp/1451624468/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354393203&sr=8-1

[Guest]

Changed my mind

Edited December 2, 2012 by bcsapper

[jbg]

Changed my mind (I haven't been following this thread much, so maybe I'm getting the wrong impression, but I'm just wondering what the relevance is of the fact that no-one has observed something come from nothing.)

Well at some point something had to come from nothing. Can anyone write a good prequel to the Creation story?

[Guest]

Well at some point something had to come from nothing. Can anyone write a good prequel to the Creation story?

How did you do that? I mean, get both my posts, pre and post edit, in the same quote?

[bush_cheney2004]

Well at some point something had to come from nothing. Can anyone write a good prequel to the Creation story?

No, as logically something cannot come from nothing. This is why "God" will always win. "God" is that something.

[Guest]

Well, there are only two possibilities. Either something has existed forever, or something came out of nothing. Both seem fairly illogical.

[jbg]

How did you do that? I mean, get both my posts, pre and post edit, in the same quote?

Word BC 1 does that.

[Sleipnir]

Well, there are only two possibilities. Either something has existed forever, or something came out of nothing. Both seem fairly illogical.

Or what seems to come out of nothing actually came from something else.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, there are only two possibilities. Either something has existed forever, or something came out of nothing. Both seem fairly illogical.

Perhaps, but this analysis is limited by human perception and understanding of such things. In reality, we are insignificant in the overall scheme of such cosmic things. Again, this is where "God" comes in to save the day.

[Guest]

Perhaps, but this analysis is limited by human perception and understanding of such things. In reality, we are insignificant in the overall scheme of such cosmic things. Again, this is where "God" comes in to save the day.

I agree. Eventually, if we survive as a species, we'll know the answers. Conjecture doesn't hurt, for now, though.

[GostHacked]

DID ANYONE EVER OBSERVE SOMETHING COMING OUT FROM NOTHING?

Then god made the Universe ... out of nothing.

None of us have seen it, yet two different claims as to the reason how something could come out of nothing. Big bang and God.

Back to you Betsy.

[betsy]

She should read Krauss' book "A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing".

http://www.amazon.ca...54393203&sr=8-1

Well, here's what they say about that book!

Lawrence M. Krauss, a well-known cosmologist and prolific popular-science writer, apparently means to announce to the world, in this new book, that the laws of quantum mechanics have in them the makings of a thoroughly scientific and adamantly secular explanation of why there is something rather than nothing. Period. Case closed. End of story.

Where, for starters, are the laws of quantum mechanics themselves supposed to have come from? Krauss is more or less upfront, as it turns out, about not having a clue about that.

Krauss, mind you, has heard this kind of talk before, and it makes him crazy. A century ago, it seems to him, nobody would have made so much as a peep about referring to a stretch of space without any material particles in it as “nothing.” And now that he and his colleagues think they have a way of showing how everything there is could imaginably have emerged from a stretch of space like that, the nut cases are moving the goal posts. He complains that “some philosophers and many theologians define and redefine ‘nothing’ as not being any of the versions of nothing that scientists currently describe,” and that “now, I am told by religious critics that I cannot refer to empty space as ‘nothing,’ but rather as a ‘quantum vacuum,’ to distinguish it from the philosopher’s or theologian’s idealized ‘nothing,’ ” and he does a good deal of railing about “the intellectual bankruptcy of much of theology and some of modern philosophy.” But all there is to say about this, as far as I can see, is that Krauss is dead wrong and his religious and philosophical critics are absolutely right. More....

David Albert is a professor of philosophy at Columbia and the author of “Quantum Mechanics and Experience.”

http://www.nytimes.c...rauss.html?_r=5&

I found A Universe from Nothing awkwardly written and poorly explained; indeed, in places I felt completely at sea, and had to reread bits of it several times to figure out what he was trying to say. Even then some of it baffled me, and since I have a Ph.D. and have read a fair amount of popular physics literature, I figured this must have been a case of unclear writing rather than simple ignorance on my part.

Further, I felt to some degree cheated: much of the book was not about the origin of the universe, but dealt with other matters, like dark energy and the like, that had already been covered in other popular works on physics. Indeed, much of Krauss’s book felt like a bait-and-switch. It also seemed to me that Krauss came to grips with the real problem—how do you get matter from an initial condition of nothing?—only in the last 40 pages of the book. The whole argument could have been written more concisely, and clearly, in a smallish book the size of Sam Harris’s Free Will.

Further, Krauss defines “nothing” as a “quantum vacuum,” without giving us reasons why that would obviously have been the initial default state of the universe. Is that a sensible definition of “nothing”? If not, whence the quantum vacuum? And so on to more turtles. . .

More....

http://whyevolutioni...ausss-new-book/

Oh, the desperate atheist-evolutionist scientists.

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

Well, there are only two possibilities. Either something has existed forever, or something came out of nothing. Both seem fairly illogical.

Or....created. You can't take that out of the equation. It wouldn't be logical.

[betsy]

Then god made the Universe ... out of nothing.

I'm glad you acknowledge Creation. The question now is....which "god?"

None of us have seen it, yet two different claims as to the reason how something could come out of nothing. Big bang and God.

Back to you Betsy.

Since you admit that no one had ever seen something come out of nothing, we can safely conclude the Big Bang is simply an assumption.

On the other hand....

None of us had seen the actual Creation.....BUT you forget one very important thing. The Bible. By the Christian God.

I won't enumerate but there are things in the Bible that are now being supported by science.

Refer to the other topic for references.

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[cybercoma]

Well, here's what they say about that book!

http://www.nytimes.c...rauss.html?_r=5&

http://whyevolutioni...ausss-new-book/

Oh, the desperate atheist-evolutionist scientists.

betsy, you continue to put forward the argument "where did X come from?" This logic creates an infinite regression that even religion cannot answer. You trace it back to God, but then the question must be asked "where did God come from?" Using the same logic as creationists, God is so complex that He could have only come about by being created by a much larger and more complex God. That God must then have been created by an even more powerful God, etc. etc. etc. Creationists never give a logical reason or evidence for why it would stop at God, at least not a reason that couldn't just the same apply to the universe without invoking supernatural (outside of nature) forces.

[Sleipnir]

Since you admit that no one had ever seen something come out of nothing, we can safely conclude the Big Bang is simply an assumption.

Try looking up the term for scientific assumption.

None of us had seen the actual Creation.....BUT you forget one very important thing. The Bible. By the Christian God.

The bible is only 'very important' to the christians, no one else.

I won't enumerate but there are things in the Bible that are now being supported by science.

I failed to see the point of your comment.

[GostHacked]

I'm glad you acknowledge Creation. The question now is....which "god?"

You are still my fave troll.

No, I do not acknowledge creation. This shows the mentality I deal with when conversing with people like you.

But at least you admit that something can come from nothing.

Since you admit that no one had ever seen something come out of nothing, we can safely conclude the Big Bang is simply an assumption.

Since you did not see god create anything, we can conclude that creationism is an assumption, a theory if you will.

On the other hand....

None of us had seen the actual Creation.....BUT you forget one very important thing. The Bible. By the Christian God.

A book written by man is not the true word of God no matter how much faith you want to put into it. The bible only proves that the bible was created and written by man. And somehow the Mormons are ridiculed about the seer stones.

I won't enumerate but there are things in the Bible that are now being supported by science.

Refer to the other topic for references.

Well as others have eluded to, you have no clue about what science is, and how science works.

[Sleipnir]

You are still my fave troll.

No, I do not acknowledge creation. This shows the mentality I deal with when conversing with people like you.

[betsy]

You are still my fave troll.

No, I do not acknowledge creation. This shows the mentality I deal with when conversing with people like you.

What do you mean you didn't acknowledge creation?

Then god made the Universe ... out of nothing.

None of us have seen it, yet two different claims as to the reason how something could come out of nothing. Big bang and God.

Well, I guess I'll have to go back ignoring you again. What's the point of discussing with someone who can't even understand what he wrote.

And you can think of me anyway or anywhat you please....like as if I'd care or give a whit. Go back to oblivion.

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[Guest]

Or....created. You can't take that out of the equation. It wouldn't be logical.

Created would involve one of the options I posted. Created out of something, or created out of nothing.

[GostHacked]

What do you mean you didn't acknowledge creation?

Oh you took that literal? Kind of like how you read the bible as literal? No wonder you can't find your way out of this wet paper bag.

Well, I guess I'll have to go back ignoring you again. What's the point of discussing with someone who can't even understand what he wrote.

You'll be back, that I am sure of.

And you can think of me anyway or anywhat you please....like as if I'd care or give a whit. Go back to oblivion.

Now you got emotions all up in this. And I never cared for the game.