credit cards

[Topaz]

The NDP's have brought a motion forward to get the government to have the banks stop the high interest rates they have done in the past. The Tory stood up and said that what needs to be done is for consumers to be educated about banking and business. There is some truth in that statement but come on, consumers who have credit cards like visa and mastercharge had their interest rate go up without much notice. In the US, the consumers who have cedit debt, are telling the banks, sorry I lost my job and can't pay and so the banks are now suffering for those times when the banks sent all those credit cards out to people who couldn't really afford to have one! In this cases the banks cause this to happen themselves! In Canada, we seem to use the debit card more then the credit cards but I sure there alot of unemployed people out there that can't pay their cards because of the loss of jobs. I think this bill will pass because the Tories are against helping and that usually means the other parties will vote for it for the consumers!

[M.Dancer]

Our card rate went up to 8%. Probably cause we don't use it....

The government has really no business telling banks how much or how little they can charge, it is a decision that resides soley with the consumer and the bank. It's not like you are tied in, if your card goes up past the point you don'y like, cancel it, or better, move the debt (if you are foolish enough to carry credit card debt) to another card with lower rates.

Here's a link, free of charge for the story that you failed to provide.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/622885

[Wilber]

The NDP's have brought a motion forward to get the government to have the banks stop the high interest rates they have done in the past. The Tory stood up and said that what needs to be done is for consumers to be educated about banking and business. There is some truth in that statement but come on, consumers who have credit cards like visa and mastercharge had their interest rate go up without much notice. In the US, the consumers who have cedit debt, are telling the banks, sorry I lost my job and can't pay and so the banks are now suffering for those times when the banks sent all those credit cards out to people who couldn't really afford to have one! In this cases the banks cause this to happen themselves! In Canada, we seem to use the debit card more then the credit cards but I sure there alot of unemployed people out there that can't pay their cards because of the loss of jobs. I think this bill will pass because the Tories are against helping and that usually means the other parties will vote for it for the consumers!

People who carry balances on their credit cards are either fools or a higher risk because they can't get credit elsewhere. This justifies a higher rate IMO.

[Argus]

People who carry balances on their credit cards are either fools or a higher risk because they can't get credit elsewhere. This justifies a higher rate IMO.

You people should really watch a movie called Maxed out: Hard Times and Easy Credit. You can actually watch it on-line if you like. I'm no flaming lefty - as you know - but it really shows the predatory nature of some of these banks, and how they deliberately seek out people with vulnerable financial situations, preying on the poor, if you will, and then screwing them over every way they can.

Yes, in a sense it's the fault of the poor fool who accepts their card when they can't afford to pay it off every month, just as it's the fault of the poor fool who starts smoking, or starts doing drugs, or starts gambling and becomes addicted. But the deliberate way in which the big banks and credit card companies try to entice poorer people in and then screw them over is really something to see.

The poor are poorer now, and so are the middle class, than they used to be, and I think - and this movie makes the case - that one major reason is all the money so many people pay for credit and interest and various other financial charges and fees to the banks and other credit agencies is a big part of that.

[Wilber]

The poor are poorer now, and so are the middle class, than they used to be, and I think - and this movie makes the case - that one major reason is all the money so many people pay for credit and interest and various other financial charges and fees to the banks and other credit agencies is a big part of that.

People need to understand what credit cards are, a convenience not a solution. Convenience costs money, why would you expect credit cards to be different? Banks charge exorbitant rates for credit cards because they give them to high risk individuals, you need to bear that in mind every time you use one. Those high interest rates are paying for all those high risk people who default. Used to be that if you wanted something, you had to save for it. If you are not willing to go back to that, be prepared to accept the consequences of your own actions.

[Topaz]

I was watching the senate finance hearings and the one guy said that people who are even pay their cards off every month are still being used by the card. If you travel outside the country they charge an extra fee. I think alot of people don't know about the lower rate cards because if people took the 10% card then the banks wouldn't make the 19.5% they charge on most cards. The only way to protect yourself from the credit cards is to cut it up !

[geoffrey]

You people should really watch a movie called Maxed out: Hard Times and Easy Credit. You can actually watch it on-line if you like. I'm no flaming lefty - as you know - but it really shows the predatory nature of some of these banks, and how they deliberately seek out people with vulnerable financial situations, preying on the poor, if you will, and then screwing them over every way they can.

People still have a fundamental responsibility to not spend beyond their means.

But the deliberate way in which the big banks and credit card companies try to entice poorer people in and then screw them over is really something to see.

Banks are quite truly the ***hole of the corporate world. But these people come willingly to them. They want the 50" TV, boat, and other stuff. Why not? The bank gives it to them. Are they being taken advantage of? Maybe.

The poor are poorer now, and so are the middle class, than they used to be, and I think - and this movie makes the case - that one major reason is all the money so many people pay for credit and interest and various other financial charges and fees to the banks and other credit agencies is a big part of that.

People need to stop buying things on credit. An argument can be made for a house but that's about it. Any other purchase on credit is financially stupid.

Bank fees are negotiable if the bank doesn't have you by the balls. I only pay 1 flat fee (which is waived due to balance) for my personal and many commercial accounts I hold with one of the major banks. I pay nothing for my banking. I have three credit cards which I pay no fees and no interest. I pay a small $50/year fee on my Aeroplan card, but that's because I want the insurance and 3 or 4 free flights I get with it each year.

Now if I had no money, no investments and a ton of debt, I'd be paying fees.

People willingly give themselves up to banks. As a free market person Argus, you shouldn't be critical of the banks. These are choices people make.

[sharkman]

I was watching the senate finance hearings and the one guy said that people who are even pay their cards off every month are still being used by the card. If you travel outside the country they charge an extra fee. I think alot of people don't know about the lower rate cards because if people took the 10% card then the banks wouldn't make the 19.5% they charge on most cards. The only way to protect yourself from the credit cards is to cut it up !

I have a card with a balance and the interest rate is 5.9%(They keep giving me bills with no minimum payment amount so they can make some interest on me. Not that I take them up on that offer!) My other cards do not have a balance. I occasionally make purchases from American stores, and I use a card for that which doesn't charge me a fee for such transactions. You simply have to do some homework and get the card that fits your needs. But I agree that banks can be predatory, that is why you need to do your homework.

It's the same in other products. In one trip we made in Washington state, it was necessary to use our cell phones several times. The charges were outrageous. If I had done my homework, I could have avoided that.

Edited May 2, 2009 by sharkman

[capricorn]

We don't owe anything on credit, and the mortgage is paid. We have 2 credit cards which we don't carry a balance on. Every so often, we charge a small purchase on them just to keep the cards active. I have heard that some companies will cancel a card if it has been inactive for a period of time. This may no longer apply but we don't want to take a chance. Imagine not using your card, the bank cancels it and then you absolutely need one, say to book accommodations in advance of a trip.

I can't imagine having to pay interest to a creditor. Been there, done that and I'd never go back. If I can't pay for it cash, I don't buy it.

[sharkman]

Good for you, but you are in a very small minority of Canadians. Many these days spend beyond their means as they struggle to quickly achieve and then maintain the life their parents had after 20 years of hard work.

[BubberMiley]

People willingly give themselves up to banks. As a free market person Argus, you shouldn't be critical of the banks. These are choices people make.

Is it a tenet of the free market to prey on people who don't know better? There is always going to be predatory lending and people being taken advantage of, but this has been happening at such an obscene scale. To feel that one's free-market ideology prevents any criticism whatsoever of banks just gives them a free pass to do whatever they want. It is that naive philosphy that got us in the crisis we're in today.

Old retarded lady on a fixed income? You made your choices, now live them!

[bush_cheney2004]

Is it a tenet of the free market to prey on people who don't know better?

No, even people who know better are fair game.

There is always going to be predatory lending and people being taken advantage of, but this has been happening at such an obscene scale. To feel that one's free-market ideology prevents any criticism whatsoever of banks just gives them a free pass to do whatever they want. It is that naive philosphy that got us in the crisis we're in today.

The banks often take less than government does.

Old retarded lady on a fixed income? You made your choices, now live them!

As opposed to a "young retarded" lady ? Take away her "retarded" choices?

Edited May 2, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[BubberMiley]

As opposed to a "young retarded" lady ? Take away her "retarded" choices?

Yes, all retarded people in fact.

Sort of how the U.S. military preys on young retarded boys in shopping mall parking lots. I saw Fahrenheit 911.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, all retarded people in fact.

Sort of how the U.S. military preys on young retarded boys in shopping mall parking lots. I saw Fahrenheit 911.

Methinks all those "retarded" people would not agree with your offensive bias (or pretzel logic).

[BubberMiley]

Methinks all those "retarded" people would not agree with your offensive bias (or pretzel logic).

That's just because they don't know better.

[Wilber]

Is it a tenet of the free market to prey on people who don't know better? There is always going to be predatory lending and people being taken advantage of, but this has been happening at such an obscene scale. To feel that one's free-market ideology prevents any criticism whatsoever of banks just gives them a free pass to do whatever they want. It is that naive philosphy that got us in the crisis we're in today.

Old retarded lady on a fixed income? You made your choices, now live them!

I agree that many banks aren't acting responsibly in the way they conduct parts of their credit card business but the bottom line is using a credit card is borrowing someone elses money. You will be expected to pay it back so if you don't like the terms, don't borrow it.

[geoffrey]

Is it a tenet of the free market to prey on people who don't know better? There is always going to be predatory lending and people being taken advantage of, but this has been happening at such an obscene scale. To feel that one's free-market ideology prevents any criticism whatsoever of banks just gives them a free pass to do whatever they want. It is that naive philosphy that got us in the crisis we're in today.

Old retarded lady on a fixed income? You made your choices, now live them!

I didn't say banks should be free of criticism, and hidden fees and charges are certainly not acceptable.

However, if you don't want debt, don't borrow money. I can't hold the banks responsible for people's inability to determine priorities and live within their means. How do you tell the difference between those that use it properly (I have $25k available in revolving credit, zero balance) and those that don't? You can't. But that doesn't exempt people from paying for their debts.

The reason why rates and fees are so high is because people don't pay back their cards and the bankruptcy process is too generous to individuals.

[CANADIEN]

I was stupid enough to send my credit card payment at the last moment two three times over the past year (I had the money, just was too lazy to send the payment right away when receiving the bill).

Visa sent me an offer to INCREASE mt credit margin... which ended feeding my recycling bin. Believe me, it was not happening before I slipped off a few times.

I made the mistake, I'll take the consequences. But let's face it, the banks are encouraging people to accumulate debt.

[msj]

I was stupid enough to send my credit card payment at the last moment two three times over the past year (I had the money, just was too lazy to send the payment right away when receiving the bill).

Visa sent me an offer to INCREASE mt credit margin... which ended feeding my recycling bin. Believe me, it was not happening before I slipped off a few times.

I made the mistake, I'll take the consequences. But let's face it, the banks are encouraging people to accumulate debt.

Hmmm, my experience as a person who uses his c/c to pay for everything possible and then pay the balance off each month, is that the c/c company increased my credit to many thousands of dollars but didn't bother to tell me about it. I eventually noticed the stealth increases.

Of course, this in no way encouraged me to go spend the tens of thousands of dollars they were allowing me to use since any rational person would/should understand that all they are doing is extending credit (and relatively expensive credit at that).

It's not the c/c companies fault that people don't know how to live within a budget and don't understand principals such as maintaining proper life/disability insurance and emergency funds.

Now, if only we could live in a world where people would take responsibility and take action for such things as their own budget/credit card debt, OTOH, while the c/c companies and banks took responsibility and went broke rather than digging for more taxpayer money after they extended credit to too many people they had no business extending credit to.

[CANADIEN]

Hmmm, my experience as a person who uses his c/c to pay for everything possible and then pay the balance off each month, is that the c/c company increased my credit to many thousands of dollars but didn't bother to tell me about it. I eventually noticed the stealth increases.

Of course, this in no way encouraged me to go spend the tens of thousands of dollars they were allowing me to use since any rational person would/should understand that all they are doing is extending credit (and relatively expensive credit at that).

It's not the c/c companies fault that people don't know how to live within a budget and don't understand principals such as maintaining proper life/disability insurance and emergency funds.

Now, if only we could live in a world where people would take responsibility and take action for such things as their own budget/credit card debt, OTOH, while the c/c companies and banks took responsibility and went broke rather than digging for more taxpayer money after they extended credit to too many people they had no business extending credit to.

One would think that the banks would REDUCE the credit margin of people who don't pay, or at least not increase it.

Not to absolve people of personal responsibility, but they might as well send free samples of imported beers to alcoholics.

[Molly]

There is a degree to which I wonder who, exactly is being convenienced by the use of credit and debit cards.

Transactions cost me the same or more than they did before I did all the work myself, saving the banks the trouble of having staff and infrastructure. Groceries and other goods cost the same or more than they did before I saved them the trouble of holding and managing that much cash, or even providing enough staff to collect my money and bag my purchases. Goods cost the same or more than they did before retailers conspired with bankers to track detailed information on my every purchase....

I operated entirely without any credit cards until very recently, when it became clear that I could neither book a plane ticket, nor check into a hotel using mere money.

........ obviously it's nice to be able to do a deal without carrying a roll of $20's, or having to drop by a bank to get them, but the benefit accruing from them is, I suspect, to a far larger extent, going to the retailers and banks than it is to me.

[Wilber]

One would think that the banks would REDUCE the credit margin of people who don't pay, or at least not increase it.

Not to absolve people of personal responsibility, but they might as well send free samples of imported beers to alcoholics.

Since when have government liquor stores ever had any scruples about selling booze to alcoholics? The visibly drunk maybe but whether one was an alcoholic or not, they could care less.

Credit care companies are predatory however. I applied for a card from VISA and specifically requested a $1500 limit because I wanted to use it for internet purchases only. When it came it had a $5000 limit and I had to go back to the bank and get adamant that I only wanted the lower limit. I got what I wanted but had the impression that issuing cards with such low limits was not worth their trouble. They have since raised it to $2000 without my consent. I can live with that but if they raise it any more I will be back pounding on the desk and cancel it if necessary.

[sharkman]

I've received those stealth increases, and let them stand because it improves your credit rating. However, I was recently the victim of c/c fraud, (I caught it quickly and only 4 or 5 small purchases were outstanding), and now I am thinking about a internet purchases only card with a small balance.

A friend told me you can also purchase a prepaid c/c which will not allow any purchases beyond its balance. I haven't looked into it yet, I'm still afraid to purchase anything more on line.

[geoffrey]

Hmmm, my experience as a person who uses his c/c to pay for everything possible and then pay the balance off each month, is that the c/c company increased my credit to many thousands of dollars but didn't bother to tell me about it. I eventually noticed the stealth increases.

Same here. I don't carry a balance and the most I've ever had on my card is probably $5k or $6k when I paid for a vacation or for some courses. Yet the issuer (major bank) pumped up the limit to now $20k. Why? Don't know. But no one told me about it.

It's not the c/c companies fault that people don't know how to live within a budget and don't understand principals such as maintaining proper life/disability insurance and emergency funds.

Correct.

Now, if only we could live in a world where people would take responsibility and take action for such things as their own budget/credit card debt, OTOH, while the c/c companies and banks took responsibility and went broke rather than digging for more taxpayer money after they extended credit to too many people they had no business extending credit to.

Have you read about how GS needed to reduce the mortgages of hundreds of homeowners around Boston because their mortgages exceeded the value of the homes and that was not fair? Cost the firm $60mm, and they weren't even the underwriter, just securitization. Same mentality. When people screw up, it's the bank's fault.

Plenty of us don't get into debt traps. That's why they offer the credit. The few they do need to suck it up and make sacrifices.

........ obviously it's nice to be able to do a deal without carrying a roll of $20's, or having to drop by a bank to get them, but the benefit accruing from them is, I suspect, to a far larger extent, going to the retailers and banks than it is to me.

Retailers pay huge fees to the credit card firms. They don't benefit.

I've received those stealth increases, and let them stand because it improves your credit rating. However, I was recently the victim of c/c fraud, (I caught it quickly and only 4 or 5 small purchases were outstanding), and now I am thinking about a internet purchases only card with a small balance.

Don't worry about the fraud, it happens and your covered. The benefit to your credit rating of consistantly paying off your card in full every month is way more valuable than the hassle of fraud. It could save you thousands over the life of your mortgage if you qualify for a better rate as a result.

A friend told me you can also purchase a prepaid c/c which will not allow any purchases beyond its balance. I haven't looked into it yet, I'm still afraid to purchase anything more on line.

Statistically, your more likely to get screwed by the convenience store. Online purchasing is safe.

[Wilber]

Call me paranoid but I check my credit card balances on line almost daily to make sure there are no surprises.