Your thoughts on NAFTA, SPP and Canada's future

[Guest byron84]

Hello all,

There seems to be a lot of controversy about the NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership) and possible NAU (North American Union). My intention is to spark a good-spirited hopefully unbiased informative discussion about these topics and their implications.

So far, there is an existing European Union that everybody knows about. There's also the African Union (www.africa-union.org). There's also a proposed South-Asian union (http://www.southasianunion.net/). Given these trends, do you think with the increasing economic integration of Canada, US and Mexico - that a similar union be inevitable here?

It seems that Canada is already very Americanized in many ways. Big American corporations are everywhere here, so the US has an undeniably significant economic impact on Canada. Having said that, I think Canada has done a very good job in keeping relative economic stability.

Microchipped debit cards and driver's licenses are already coming out. How do you feel about one microchipped card to consolidate passport, driver's license, social insurance number, bank information etc? What about such a card for the whole North American community?

The world already has a number of international organizations such as the Council on Foreign Relations, United Nations, World Bank, World Health Organization, World Trade Organization, International Court of Justice, International Criminal Court, International Police and the list goes on. With political leaders of various countries hailing for a world government and the apparent economic crisis to push it, are Canadians aware of what's happening? What does all of this mean in real world terms for the average up and coming student and working people?

All of the above undoubtedly has countless benefits while simultaneously raising various concerns. How much is going on secretively and how much of it is being overseen by public representation? What are YOUR opinions?

[Vancouverite]

We just discussed this in my thread, "Will the two become one? Will the US and Canada merge?"

The SPP is toothless, and, quite honestly, there will be a union only because that's the historical trend. The US and Canada are very similar culturally, and, sooner or later, there will be further talk of a union - it will just take a few decades, that's all.

[Topaz]

I read a article on this two months ago and it stated that to get the NAU together they had to finish the "superhighways" in North America and the way they were going to do it was to say they are going to create jobs in the construction industry and repair and build the new highways and rails to connect the 3 countries. So all this "jobs" they want to create for the unemployed, could be the way they are going to get it done.

[Michael Hardner]

What does all of this mean in real world terms for the average up and coming student and working people?

What does it mean ?

Let's see - more international cooperation, more social mixing between people of different nations, sharing of ideas, increased wealth and reduced chance of war.

And...

The slow death of local cultures and customs, less regional identity, less individuality, more mass industrialization, and a lot of bumps along the way.

The change is inevitable, and the trend has been going on since WWI or so. The conflicts that arise when cultures collide (such as 9/11) are only momentary setbacks. Communications and technology are marching us towards one world.`

[eyeball]

I'm betting the unwillingness of national governments to surrender their established jurisdictions will prove to be an insurmountable bump.

Plate tectonics will bring us together faster.

[Vancouverite]

The Soviet Union collapsed, and so will GM, apparently - things seem to be changing pretty fast over the last 20 years, and they will continue to change at an accelerating rate. Free trade was a hot issue in Canada in the 1980's, but that has become a non-issue. In fact, no one outside of radical nationalists seem to care if we deepen our ties and go for a customs union.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm betting the unwillingness of national governments to surrender their established jurisdictions will prove to be an insurmountable bump.

Plate tectonics will bring us together faster.

eb,

Really ?

Such as national economic policy, security policy and environmental regulations ?

See where I'm going with that ?

[eyeball]

eb,

Really ?

Such as national economic policy, security policy and environmental regulations ?

See where I'm going with that ?

Yes, these are the paths that have lead us to where we are today, an economy that's in a shambles in a more dangerous less secure world with a degraded environment we can't afford to fix. Oh, and the world is fracturing into more countries not less. Even Canada has felt the compulsion towards more regionalism.

Ever read Jihad vs McWorld? It was written before 9/11 by the way so don't let the title throw you off.

Just beyond the horizon of current events lie two possible political futures—both bleak, neither democratic. The first is a retribalization of large swaths of humankind by war and bloodshed: a threatened Lebanonization of national states in which culture is pitted against culture, people against people, tribe against tribe—a Jihad in the name of a hundred narrowly conceived faiths against every kind of interdependence, every kind of artificial social cooperation and civic mutuality. The second is being borne in on us by the onrush of economic and ecological forces that demand integration and uniformity and that mesmerize the world with fast music, fast computers, and fast food—with MTV, Macintosh, and McDonald's, pressing nations into one commercially homogenous global network: one McWorld tied together by technology, ecology, communications, and commerce. The planet is falling precipitantly apart AND coming reluctantly together at the very same moment.

Source

The problem as I see it are the two herds of rogue elephants in the room 1. overpopulation and 2. official opacity. The former will simply die naturally on its own but I'm afraid the latter will have to be put to death deliberately and it will fiercely resist up until its last dying breath.

The tendencies of what I am here calling the forces of Jihad and the forces of McWorld operate with equal strength in opposite directions, the one driven by parochial hatreds, the other by universalizing markets, the one re-creating ancient subnational and ethnic borders from within, the other making national borders porous from without. They have one thing in common: neither offers much hope to citizens looking for practical ways to govern themselves democratically. If the global future is to pit Jihad's centrifugal whirlwind against McWorld's centripetal black hole, the outcome is unlikely to be democratic—or so I will argue.

And so I would agree.

[Oleg Bach]

Why would any nation (Canada) in it's right mind want to even think of considering a close partnership with a place like Mexico - maybe no one has noticed that 20 people are mudered every year because of the conflict the two drug cartels are having - the government and the mob...actually two mobs --- why would you open the door to these people - bad enough we have to appease the states..we owe no loyality to Mexico what so ever...other than a few who come up here to pick our cabbages at the Holland Marsh...those people are welcome - the rest are not!

[Oleg Bach]

Why would any nation (Canada) in it's right mind want to even think of considering a close partnership with a place like Mexico - maybe no one has noticed that 20 people are mudered every year because of the conflict the two drug cartels are having - the government and the mob...actually two mobs --- why would you open the door to these people - bad enough we have to appease the states..we owe no loyality to Mexico what so ever...other than a few who come up here to pick our cabbages at the Holland Marsh...those people are welcome - the rest are not!

Correction 20 thousand people....and they like to melt the corpses in barrels full of acid - nice bunch of people to have a union with...I say lock the damed doors.

[Vancouverite]

Well, I want a customs union between the two countries. What about the rest of you fellow Canadians?

[Smallc]

I would have to study the issue further. As of now, I would say no out of caution.

[Vancouverite]

Canadians support closer relations to the United States, and, on energy and the environment, Canadians overwhelmingly support a continental policy. In fact, Canadians are even agreeing with PM Harper that a threat to the US is a threat to Canada. This is a big change from the days of no truck and trade with the yankees.

I wonder how Americans would feel about something like this, if they think about it at all.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I wonder how Americans would feel about something like this, if they think about it at all.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Oleg Bach]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Geroge Bernard Shaw said "The majority is always wrong" - you can have all the polls you want and they don't mean shit too a tree. We are not your friends..and you are not ours - we exist in a mutal co-operative arrangement strickly because of geography. I as a private person do not have friends or "allies" - YOU as an American have no friends let alone allies. IF Canada were to be situatated south of Green Land in the middle of the ocean - we would treat America like the rest of the world does - with quiet and private distain ..You guys are just plain blood thirsty and nasty..who the hell needs friends or allies that have made a living by killing who ever has what you desire ...I hope I have not been to blunt .....YOU have no friends - real men and real nations have associations..not allieships or friendships...family are friends and as far as I know there has not been a royal marriage between the two nations......as for your Obama prop - the only person fit to lead your nation is a kidnapped old king - Lord Black - and you waste even that resourse!

[Vancouverite]

The poll says that Americans consider Britain to be a closer ally than Canada, which is not surprising, and it's also not surprising that those on the states bordering Canada would consider Canada to be closer to the US than Britain. But the poll doesn't answer the issue of whether they'd agree to a customs union with Canada.

Thanks for the link.

[tango]

as for your Obama prop - the only person fit to lead your nation is a kidnapped old king - Lord Black - and you waste even that resourse!

Uh oh ... who let Archie Bonkers out!!

Was it Jack Daniels again, Oleg?

Edited April 9, 2009 by tango

[bush_cheney2004]

YOU as an American have no friends let alone allies.

Correct...we only have them when somebody wants something.

IF Canada were to be situatated south of Green Land in the middle of the ocean - we would treat America like the rest of the world does - with quiet and private distain

Some would say that is already the case.

..You guys are just plain blood thirsty and nasty..who the hell needs friends or allies that have made a living by killing who ever has what you desire ...I hope I have not been to blunt .....YOU have no friends - real men and real nations have associations..not allieships or friendships

Yet still good enough to die for your long lost empire. God save the Queen and all that jazz.

...family are friends and as far as I know there has not been a royal marriage between the two nations......as for your Obama prop - the only person fit to lead your nation is a kidnapped old king - Lord Black - and you waste even that resourse!

Like millions before him, Conrad Black came to America on his own. I say again.....35,000,000 Canadians....305,000,000 Americans. You do the math.

[kittengirl]

Hello all,

There seems to be a lot of controversy about the NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership) and possible NAU (North American Union). My intention is to spark a good-spirited hopefully unbiased informative discussion about these topics and their implications.

So far, there is an existing European Union that everybody knows about. There's also the African Union (www.africa-union.org). There's also a proposed South-Asian union (http://www.southasianunion.net/). Given these trends, do you think with the increasing economic integration of Canada, US and Mexico - that a similar union be inevitable here?

It seems that Canada is already very Americanized in many ways. Big American corporations are everywhere here, so the US has an undeniably significant economic impact on Canada. Having said that, I think Canada has done a very good job in keeping relative economic stability.

Microchipped debit cards and driver's licenses are already coming out. How do you feel about one microchipped card to consolidate passport, driver's license, social insurance number, bank information etc? What about such a card for the whole North American community?

The world already has a number of international organizations such as the Council on Foreign Relations, United Nations, World Bank, World Health Organization, World Trade Organization, International Court of Justice, International Criminal Court, International Police and the list goes on. With political leaders of various countries hailing for a world government and the apparent economic crisis to push it, are Canadians aware of what's happening? What does all of this mean in real world terms for the average up and coming student and working people?

All of the above undoubtedly has countless benefits while simultaneously raising various concerns. How much is going on secretively and how much of it is being overseen by public representation? What are YOUR opinions?

my opinion is no thanks to the nau, this is not good for the sovereignty of canadains, given that the ones who will be re-issuing us a consitition are already corporate greedy bastards who want us all in serfdom

http://niagarachange.com/