Liberal MP Introduces Bill to Decriminalize Marijuana

[bluegreen]

Canada's justice minister says people who sell or grow marijuana belong in jail because marijuana is used as a "currency" to bring harder drugs into the country.

"This lubricates the business and that makes me nervous," Rob Nicholson told the Commons justice committee yesterday as he faced tough questions about a controversial bill to impose automatic prison sentences for drug crimes, including growing as little as one pot plant.

"Marijuana is the currency that is used to bring other more serious drugs into the country," the minister said.

Well, of course, marijuana is the purview of organized crime precisely because of this mentality - if the government suddenly banned coffee, then coffee, too could be a "currency" for harder drugs. Nowhere in Mr. Nicholson's comments does he justify a harder stance on marijuana itself or why Canadians need to be protected from marijuana any more than they need to be protected from alcohol or tobacco.

http://www.am770chqr.com/Blogs/TheWorldTon...ntryID=10029747

Is Nicholson a complete fool or is he simply following Harper's rationale?

What a keen and penetrating observation! So what's next? Bank notes are often used as currency to buy things I don't like as well, like hard drugs, or votes for the Conservative Party, or kiddie porn. Currency should be criminalized because it's often used as currency. What this whole debate boils down to is that a large minority of Canadians want to imprison the small majority who want to do things to themselves that the above mentioned minority doesn't want them to do to themselves. The oppressive minority dresses up their arguments with circular arguments, and spurious logic, but it doesn't change the underlying facts. These people do not like liberal societies. They desire extraordinary power for government to impose their own peculiar opinions on the majority who disagree with them. They would get along just fine in any religious fundamentalist state, or totalitarian regime, provided the regime concurred with their own opinions about what people should and should not be allowed to do to themselves.

I don't think it's very nice to work so hard to promote imprisoning people who disagree with you. I also think it is dangerous, and prejudicial to everybody in our society when harmless minoritys, or even passive majorities should find themselves criminalized on what is essentially a whim.

[benny]

They desire extraordinary power for government to impose their own peculiar opinions on the majority who disagree with them. They would get along just fine in any religious fundamentalist state, or totalitarian regime, provided the regime concurred with their own opinions about what people should and should not be allowed to do to themselves.

I think that legalizing pot can contribute to transforming our society into something more and worst than a totalitarian society, it can transform it into a society that is "too much", into a society for which we have to invent "toomuchness" as a new substantive.

Edited April 26, 2009 by benny

[normanchateau]

What this whole debate boils down to is that a large minority of Canadians want to imprison the small majority who want to do things to themselves that the above mentioned minority doesn't want them to do to themselves.

It doesn't help that the Prime Minister of Canada is a religious, social conservative.

[benny]

It doesn't help that the Prime Minister of Canada is a religious, social conservative.

That the Prime Minister of Canada has children is more significant here.

[Drea]

And we all know that if marijuana were legal 6 year olds would be smoking it right?

Gotta protect the children! Won't someone please think of the CHILDREN!!!

LOL

they say that pot makes one paranoid... being a conservative one MUST be scared of every little thing. Scared of pot, scared of gays, scared of women, scared of god LOL

The best thing that the governments of Canada and US could do is to legalize it. Seriously how stupid and paranoid can people be? It has been proven time and time again that marijuana is not harmful and those who injest it do not go nuts and harm others either.

So what is the problem aside from conservative paranoia?

[benny]

And we all know that if marijuana were legal 6 year olds would be smoking it right?

Gotta protect the children! Won't someone please think of the CHILDREN!!!

LOL

they say that pot makes one paranoid... being a conservative one MUST be scared of every little thing. Scared of pot, scared of gays, scared of women, scared of god LOL

The best thing that the governments of Canada and US could do is to legalize it. Seriously how stupid and paranoid can people be? It has been proven time and time again that marijuana is not harmful and those who injest it do not go nuts and harm others either.

So what is the problem aside from conservative paranoia?

A New Zealand study showed that people who carried a particular variety of a gene called catechol-o-methyl transferase (a gene involved in the synthesis of the brain chemical dopamine), were about 11 times more likely to develop schizophrenia if they used marijuana.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1441

[Drea]

Too bad for them they should stay away from it.

I don't have the stats, but how many people who injest alcohol become raving maniacs or are forever addicted?

Yet no one is freaking out that the chances of becoming an alcoholic and ruining the lives of family members and themselves are more than likely much higher than the instances of folks who become schizophrenic from injesting marijuana.

Why is that exactly?

The most harmful mind altering substance on the planet is fully legal. Boggles the mind I tell yah! LOL

[benny]

Too bad for them they should stay away from it.

I don't have the stats, but how many people who injest alcohol become raving maniacs or are forever addicted?

Yet no one is freaking out that the chances of becoming an alcoholic and ruining the lives of family members and themselves are more than likely much higher than the instances of folks who become schizophrenic from injesting marijuana.

Why is that exactly?

The most harmful mind altering substance on the planet is fully legal. Boggles the mind I tell yah! LOL

Comparing two substances is not evaluating them.

[Drea]

Ok, so some people will become mentally ill if they ingest marijauna... is this enough to continue incarcerating people for smoking it?

People do many things that may possibly be harmful to them, yet we do not treat these people as criminals. Why are we still treating marijuana smokers as criminals? Surely you do not believe that smoking something (with no harm to anyone else) should warrant a jail sentence or even a fine?

Should I not be able to choose what mind altering substance I want to ingest? Should it not be my own personal decision whether or not to take risks? Is it up to the government to regulate the risk-taking of it's citizens?

Riding a bicycle can cause brain injury... should we ban bicycles because it may be that one's chances of brain damage from an accident are 11 times higher than if one simply walked?

Of course not! People should be free to ride bikes if they want to -- even if there is a risk involved.

We know there are many many products and activities that have the chance to cause us harm but we do them anyway because the risks are worth it to us individually. A person may have heart trouble but still go have a Big Mac... that burger could kill in certain circumstances!

No one will ever be able to put forth a logical argument against personal marijuana ingestion and the criminization of it. It just does not make sense.

Just admit it already LOL

[benny]

Ok, so some people will become mentally ill if they ingest marijauna... is this enough to continue incarcerating people for smoking it?

People do many things that may possibly be harmful to them, yet we do not treat these people as criminals. Why are we still treating marijuana smokers as criminals? Surely you do not believe that smoking something (with no harm to anyone else) should warrant a jail sentence or even a fine?

Should I not be able to choose what mind altering substance I want to ingest? Should it not be my own personal decision whether or not to take risks? Is it up to the government to regulate the risk-taking of it's citizens?

Riding a bicycle can cause brain injury... should we ban bicycles because it may be that one's chances of brain damage from an accident are 11 times higher than if one simply walked?

Of course not! People should be free to ride bikes if they want to -- even if there is a risk involved.

We know there are many many products and activities that have the chance to cause us harm but we do them anyway because the risks are worth it to us individually. A person may have heart trouble but still go have a Big Mac... that burger could kill in certain circumstances!

No one will ever be able to put forth a logical argument against personal marijuana ingestion and the criminization of it. It just does not make sense.

Just admit it already LOL

Pot is also not that different for a (invisible) jail.

[Sir Bandelot]

Pot is also not that different for a (invisible) jail.

Yet it is one that people willingly accept, not forced upon them. Some prefer it.

[benny]

Yet it is one that people willingly accept, not forced upon them. Some prefer it.

A prison is a place where people have all their time to think about what freedom and willpower are all about.

[Sir Bandelot]

A prison is a place where people have all their time to think about what freedom and willpower are all about.

Not in my view. A prison is a place that you want to get out of, but cannot. You can think about freedom and willpower as much as you want, anywhere.

[normanchateau]

MEXICO CITY, April 28, 2009 (Reuters) - Mexico's Senate today approved a bill decriminalizing possession of small amounts of narcotics for personal use, in order to free resources to fight violent drug cartels.

The bill, proposed by conservative President Felipe Calderon, would make it legal to carry up to 5 grams (0.18 ounces) of marijuana, 500 milligrams (0.018 ounces) of cocaine and tiny quantities of other drugs such as heroin and methamphetamines.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisi...28349522?rpc=64

Will Obama pressure Calderon to withdraw this legislation as Bush did to Calderon's predecessor? Not a chance.

Is social conservative Harper even more conservative than Calderon?

Is Harper's approach to marijuana evidence-based or part of his conservative ideology?

[bush_cheney2004]

.....Will Obama pressure Calderon to withdraw this legislation as Bush did to Calderon's predecessor? Not a chance.

Is social conservative Harper even more conservative than Calderon?

Is Harper's approach to marijuana evidence-based or part of his conservative ideology?

Will dopers from Canada move to Mexico to enjoy legalized geef?

[normanchateau]

Will dopers from Canada move to Mexico to enjoy legalized geef?

I doubt it. They've not moved to the many European countries which have decriminalized marijuana.

The main impact of the Mexico decision in Canada might be to further marginalize Harper. Perhaps he can find some theocracy somewhere to govern.

[bush_cheney2004]

I doubt it. They've not moved to the many European countries which have decriminalized marijuana.

Can't be that important then, eh?

The main impact of the Mexico decision in Canada might be to further marginalize Harper. Perhaps he can find some theocracy somewhere to govern.

First somebody will have to notice.....right now they are more interested in swine-flu down Mexico way.

[benny]

Not in my view. A prison is a place that you want to get out of, but cannot. You can think about freedom and willpower as much as you want, anywhere.

Anywhere, other than prison, distractions are too easily disturbing the thinking process.

[Sir Bandelot]

Anywhere, other than prison, distractions are too easily disturbing the thinking process.

Maybe not if your "high", I suppose.

Are you now advocating that all philosphers should be put in jail, for their own good?

[benny]

Maybe not if your "high", I suppose.

Are you now advocating that all philosphers should be put in jail, for their own good?

Drugs is one reason why children stop thinking about their future well before knowing what philosophy has to offer.

[Sir Bandelot]

Drugs is one reason why children stop thinking about their future well before knowing what philosophy has to offer.

I think the computer is the drug of choice for children today, that makes them lose all interest in the real world. Lets prohibit their use of computers. Not joking here

[benny]

I think the computer is the drug of choice for children today, that makes them lose all interest in the real world. Lets prohibit their use of computers. Not joking here

Relatively to computer, we can wait the day (soon coming for sure) when computers will be implanted directly in children's brains.

[normanchateau]

Can't be that important then, eh?

Not necessarily. Not too many Canadian lesbians moved to countries where they could legally marry even though the issue was important to them and Canada did eventually permit them to marry.

Would you leave the US and move to another country because you disagreed with one piece of American legislation?

[benny]

Not necessarily. Not too many Canadian lesbians moved to countries where they could legally marry even though the issue was important to them and Canada did eventually permit them to marry.

Would you leave the US and move to another country because you disagreed with one piece of American legislation?

Don't forget that the price of good soil to grow cannabis is not the same in all countries.

[normanchateau]

Bizarre. A NDP candidate in the provincial election has accused a BC Liberal candidate of wanting to legalize drugs. Meanwhile, a new BC poll shows that 65% of British Columbians favour decriminalization of marijuana:

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...ishColumbiaHome