Tories, Mulroney in tiff over party membership

Cuzzin E · April 9, 2009

Mulroney has no one to blame but himself. He has told lie after lie and if i were PM I would keep as far from possible from this sleazebag

jdobbin · April 9, 2009

MacKay pleads in vain with Tories over Mulroney

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...09?hub=Politics

Defence Minister Peter MacKay called the party boss last week and asked him to issue a public statement clarifying whether, as a former two-term prime minister, Mulroney could be a Conservative member for life.
That conversation with party president Don Plett was brief and unproductive: the Conservative Party of Canada does not offer lifetime memberships and would not make an exception for Mulroney.

The bitterness of former PCs in regards to Mulroney continues.

Wild Bill · April 9, 2009

Mulroney was a good PM. Aside from Meech, GST, Free Trade, UI reform, Mulroney made it possible for a WASP Conservative Harper (barely French-speaking) to win 10 seats in Quebec and become PM.
Mulroney made regional, bilingual Canada a viable two-party democracy. (Federalist Canadians should hope that Harper doesn't bungle Mulroney's gift.)

I see that you are from Montreal. It's a simple fact but Mulroney is still extremely unpopular in English Canada yet is still liked and respected in much of Quebec. Quebecois don't seem to realize just how much Anglos do not like him.

The antipathy is akin to the revulsion Quebecois felt over the Adscam/Sponsorship affair, only greater!

We could debate over whether his reputation is deserved but it really doesn't matter. In TROC he is not liked, for the most part.

Since the PC and the Alliance/Reform parties merged it's obvious that the tiny rump of the PC's has ended up in control. Reform history and principles are never, ever mentioned. 'Down the memory hole, Winston!' Along with it was an obvious attempt to restore Mulroney's reputation. The Schrieber affair torpedoed that effort but it still struggles to keep trying.

Curious.

normanchateau · April 10, 2009

Since the PC and the Alliance/Reform parties merged it's obvious that the tiny rump of the PC's has ended up in control. Reform history and principles are never, ever mentioned.

Perhaps Harper should start espousing some of those long-forgotten Reform principles such as abolition of official bilingualism and multiculturalism, no abortions, opposition to extending civil rights to homosexuals and a potential return to capital punishment. Go for it Harper.

Vancouver King · April 10, 2009

Andrew Coyne, no friend of Liberals, made a good point this evening on CBC's At Issue panel. He suggests part of the controversy over Mulroney's place in the CPC relates to many Tory MP's using the issue of Mulroney's membership as a proxy for unrelated disatisfaction in Harper's leadership and PMO staff.

After all, the thinking goes, the object of Harper's scorn delivered two majorities, a sad contrast to the freefall the party now finds itself in.

normanchateau · April 10, 2009

Andrew Coyne, no friend of Liberals, made a good point this evening on CBC's At Issue panel. He suggests part of the controversy over Mulroney's place in the CPC relates to many Tory MP's using the issue of Mulroney's membership as a proxy for unrelated disatisfaction in Harper's leadership and PMO staff.
After all, the thinking goes, the object of Harper's scorn delivered two majorities, a sad contrast to the freefall the party now finds itself in.

Harper will never deliver a majority. Mulroney was a centrist. Harper is a so-con pretending to be a centrist. He might fool some Canadians but not enough of them to win a majority.

jdobbin · April 10, 2009

Harper signed off on leaks about Mulroney

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9011337.html

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is reported to have signed off on a plan to leak stories that would distance him and the current party leadership from former prime minister Brian Mulroney.
The Toronto Star reported Friday that a Conservative Party source said Harper was in contact with his chief of staff, Guy Giorno, and communications director Kory Teneycke, the officials behind the idea, while he was in Europe last week.

The source said Harper ``knew and he agreed to it, that's why there will be no punishment or remedy.''

As if there was any doubt.

normanchateau · April 10, 2009

Harper signed off on leaks about Mulroney
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9011337.html

As though Harper has any remaining integrity...

85RZ500 · April 10, 2009

No harper fan here, but integrity? he has more in his little finger then the`hole Liberal party

Wild Bill · April 10, 2009

Perhaps Harper should start espousing some of those long-forgotten Reform principles such as abolition of official bilingualism and multiculturalism, no abortions, opposition to extending civil rights to homosexuals and a potential return to capital punishment. Go for it Harper.

Those were Reform principles? How about a cite or a link?

Frankly, I think you pulled those examples out of your butt. They are simply a leftwing propaganda cartoon of Reform principles.

They make as much sense as if I made the claim that the NDP are part of a communist conspiracy to revive the corpse of Joe Stalin.

Although if truth be told, Taliban Jack is looking more and more like Stalin since he grew that moustache!

scribblet · April 10, 2009

Those were Reform principles? How about a cite or a link?
Frankly, I think you pulled those examples out of your butt. They are simply a leftwing propaganda cartoon of Reform principles.

They make as much sense as if I made the claim that the NDP are part of a communist conspiracy to revive the corpse of Joe Stalin.

Although if truth be told, Taliban Jack is looking more and more like Stalin since he grew that moustache!

Exactly so, they never existed.

The CPC has never offered lifetime memberships, I interpret this whole thing as an attempt to drive a wedge into the party. Even the CBC production on the issue was very presumptive in respect to motives. As much of the anti CPC nonsense on here.

jdobbin · April 10, 2009

The CPC has never offered lifetime memberships, I interpret this whole thing as an attempt to drive a wedge into the party.

And you believe that this is something that only the CBC is making a big deal about and there are no Tory MPs chafing on the the no contact rule with Mulroney?

Edited April 10, 2009 by jdobbin

scribblet · April 11, 2009

And you believe that this is something that only the CBC is making a big deal about and there are no Tory MPs chafing on the the no contact rule with Mulroney?

Possibly, but it's tempest in a teapot, like much of the stuff on here, only the most die hard partisans would continue to make it a public issue LOL Iggy et al are using it simply as a divide and conquer technique, exploiting a minor issue. Much like most of the topics on here.

Edited April 11, 2009 by scriblett

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

Possibly, but it's tempest in a teapot, like much of the stuff on here, only the most die hard partisans would continue to make it a public issue LOL Iggy et al are using it simply as a divide and conquer technique, exploiting a minor issue. Much like most of the topics on here.

Discord in any political party is not a tempest in a teapot. For a command and control party like the Conservatives, it is evidence that there is no agreement on the tactics the party have used for Mulroney.

Wild Bill · April 11, 2009

Discord in any political party is not a tempest in a teapot. For a command and control party like the Conservatives, it is evidence that there is no agreement on the tactics the party have used for Mulroney.

Well, they all do it! Witness the antics in the Liberal Party after Dion assumed the leadership and when he began his electoral campaign.

That being so, the factor becomes null. If that is your only criteria for supporting a party you are left with no options. So why talk about it?

As always, choosing a party to support comes down to other factors. With me, it usually depends on who smells the least!

Molly · April 11, 2009

It's a small issue within itself, but speaks to character, values, and manner of thinking... which are very important things to know about someone who is speaking and acting on your behalf.

normanchateau · April 11, 2009

Those were Reform principles? How about a cite or a link?
Frankly, I think you pulled those examples out of your butt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Party_of_Canada

I have little use for Wikipedia but this article actually provides references to support the claims.

Wild Bill · April 11, 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Party_of_Canada
I have little use for Wikipedia but this article actually provides references to support the claims.

No, it provides references that the claims were made! Not the same thing at all.

'Wiki' is often biased. Try posting anything supporting climate change denial and see how long before your words are gone. It's a politically correct source and so it's not surprising they are not kind to the Reform Party. One fact that is virtually never mentioned is that Reform had more visible minorities as MP's than all the other parties combined! Yet Refom was always accused of being 'white bread' and racist. I guess those minority MP's must have all been stupid and duped into not seeing all those 'crackers' all around them.

I am reminded how just before one election a Reform candidate was found to 'have a pillowcase with eyeholes' in his closet. The leadership promptly gave him the boot, even though there was no time left to pick another to run in the riding.

The Liberals, on the other hand, found themselves in a similar situation with one of their candidates but kept him on the ballot, saying "Well, it's too late to get someone else!"

Nobody will ever convince me that leftwingers in the main and also the media do not have a bias. I saw too much of it with my own eyes.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Wild Bill

normanchateau · April 11, 2009

No, it provides references that the claims were made! Not the same thing at all.

"Big business and the media have remained wary of Reform's evangelical Christian populism and western regionalism. Their fears have been two-fold: that Reform's opposition to abortion and gay rights and its anti-immigrant demagogy would rile much of the population and become an impediment to the adoption of a right-wing economic agenda, and that Reform, which has made repeated unabashed appeals to anti-Quebec bigotry, would fan the movement for Quebec secession, or at the very least favor the interests of capital in western Canada.

In founding the Alliance, Manning has sought to address these concerns. The new party has scrapped its opposition to Canada's Official Languages Act, which mandates the federal government to provide services in French and English across the country.

As regards the political agenda of the religious right, Manning is attempting a balancing act. He has repeatedly said tax cuts and reforming—i.e., privatizing—health care are much more urgent issues. At the same time, he has sought to rally support from Reform's large core of evangelical Christian activists by stressing his personal support for socially conservative “values” and by saying he favors binding national referenda on such questions as abortion and capital punishment. (The latter proposal, while having a democratic veneer, would in fact make fundamental democratic rights, such as a woman's right to choose, subject to abrogation.)"

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/can-a04.shtml

More "claims". :lol:

Apparently even Preston Manning made "claims" about the Reform Party when he founded the Alliance.

scribblet · April 11, 2009

None of which, although slightly biased to say the least and did not represent all Reform members, has anything to do with today's CPC. Even though some people like to push it as if it did represent the CPC in the hopes that the ill informed will buy it.

Smallc · April 11, 2009

None of which, although slightly biased to say the least and did not represent all Reform members, has anything to do with today's CPC.

Yes, today's CPC is made up of a a group of social and fiscal conservatives that seem to be trying as hard as they can to pass themselves off as liberals. Want more money...sure...gay marriage....we're all for that.

scribblet · April 11, 2009

Yes, today's CPC is made up of a a group of social and fiscal conservatives that seem to be trying as hard as they can to pass themselves off as liberals. Want more money...sure...gay marriage....we're all for that.

Exactly - they are made of various types of conservatives just as the Liberals have different types of Liberals e.g. those who religious types who are anti abortion etc. There previous Reform members sure, but I'd say that they represent less than a third of the membership. But so what, they are entitled to a voice just as the religious Liberals are entitled to a voice...

Smallc · April 11, 2009

I never said anything was wrong with being conservative...doesn't mean I don't have to agree with it...the problem lies in the fact the these Conservatives are doing things that require one to do a large amount of searching to find anything conservate about them.

ReeferMadness · April 11, 2009

Mulroney was a good PM. Aside from Meech, GST, Free Trade, UI reform, Mulroney made it possible for a WASP Conservative Harper (barely French-speaking) to win 10 seats in Quebec and become PM.

Harper is a knuckle-dragging troglodyte who wants to remake this country in the image of neo-cons to the south. He once derisively called Canada a "second-tier socialist country." The fact that Mulroney was able to help him polish his image is a tribute neither to Mulroney or the short memories of Canadians who voted for Harper's government.

Speaking of short memories, the premise that Mulroney could improve anyone's image is amazing in itself. Here's a guy who won his party leadership by backstabbing a guy who was too nice and too honest to be successful in politics. Free trade wasn't his brain child (he campaigned against it in 1983). The idea was an unintended political gift from Trudea via the McDonald Commission. In any event, the FTA and NAFTA are deeply flawed implementations that give foreign companies rights that domestic companies don't have. The result has been that international trade has grown faster than interprovincial trade.

But let's move on.

After free trade, Mulroney's courting of Quebec sovereignists for his own political gain and 2 poorly conceived attempts at constitutional reform led to the formation of the Bloc Quebecois and almost to the death of this country. What was amazing to me was that in 1993, there were still 11% of Canadians that claimed to support him.

Now I'm sure there must be a perfectly logical, innocent explanation why Mr Mulroney accepted bags of cash from a man who is alleged to have spent his career bribing people. Instead of putting it in the bank (as one would expect of honestly gained money), he put it into a safety deposit box and "forgot" to claim it on his income taxes for six years.

Or maybe there isn't. And maybe Harper knows that Mulroney is going under and doesn't want to go with him.

Edited April 11, 2009 by ReeferMadness

bush_cheney2004 · April 11, 2009

Harper is a knuckle-dragging troglodyte who wants to remake this country in the image of neo-cons to the south. He once derisively called Canada a "second-tier socialist country....."

It is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but even the CPC is left of American Democrats, let alone the mythical "neocons". But I have come to understand that defining Canada is seemingly impossible without "the south" as a foil....carry on.