200,000 Jobs lost in February?

[madmax]

129,000 jobs were lost in January. That is usually the month that the numbers pickup after the December layoffs. So.... in the wildest outrageous guestimate ever put forth. I am taking bids on the job lost for Feb. 2009 in Canada.

StatsCan released their last results February 6th, 2009.... The February data has to be in by now.

But... on a good note

Flahertys rose coloured glasses

By Greg Quinn and Alexandre Deslongchamps

March 11 (Bloomberg) -- Canadian Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said the world’s eighth-largest economy may come out of recession before other countries.

Flaherty, who was speaking to reporters in Ottawa, also said the Canadian economy has the best economic “fundamentals” among Group of Seven countries.

The country is in its first recession since 1992. In January, employers cut a record net 129,000 jobs and sent the unemployment rate to a four-year high of 7.2 percent.

Edited March 11, 2009 by madmax

[madmax]

Canada's Economy Worse Than Thought, Warns Budget Officer

Optimistic Harper sees quick recovery

OK, ONE Of these guys is in LA LA LAND!!!

Which one is it?

[guyser]

OK, ONE Of these guys is in LA LA LAND!!!

Which one is it?

Anytime a politician is moving his lips he is lying. Hasnt changed much over the years.

Ok, the hell thinks we will only lose 40,000 jobs?

[normanchateau]

Optimistic Harper sees quick recovery

The same Harper who described October, 2008 a "buying opportunity". When this clown exits government, he certainly won't be working as a financial advisor. Hands up those of you whose mutual funds are worth more today than they were in October.

[capricorn]

Anyone who expects to make money on mutual funds in 6 months, even during good times, needs to take a course on investments.

[capricorn]

Canada's Economy Worse Than Thought, Warns Budget Officer

Optimistic Harper sees quick recovery

OK, ONE Of these guys is in LA LA LAND!!!

Which one is it?

And then we have the IMF praising Canada's efforts to weather the storm.

The International Monetary Fund said Wednesday that while Canada faces tough times ahead, sound government fiscal policy and a stable banking system have made the country one of the best-equipped to weather the global recession.

The statement by IMF Mission Chief Charles Kramer following his visit to Canada said the government has managed its budget well over the last 10 years, cutting the federal debt in half, which "has left the country in prime form at the beginning of the global turmoil."

He said official response to the crisis - namely the fiscal package announced in January - was well-timed and well-planned. He also praised the Bank of Canada, which has cut its target rate by 400 basis points since December 2007 to a record low of 0.5%.

Looking ahead, "the authorities have expanded their toolbox for dealing with the possible emergence of more severe financial strains. These tools include capital injections and other policy measures that, while not needed now, are prudently being developed should the need arise," he said.

http://www.economicnews.ca/cepnews/wire/article/255372

Even with that glowing endorsement, I just don't believe anyone anymore.

My main concern is the doom and gloom stuff we hear about which crushes optimism and leads people to make questionable decisions about their own finances.

Edited March 11, 2009 by capricorn

[gordiecanuk]

Anyone who is still listening to Jim "Mr. Magoo" Flaherty gets what they deserve. If he hadn't pretended there was no recession coming back in November I might be inclined to listen to him...

[madmax]

Anyone who is still listening to Jim "Mr. Magoo" Flaherty gets what they deserve. If he hadn't pretended there was no recession coming back in November I might be inclined to listen to him...

Regardless of the economic situation, there is credibility to deliver the message that is at stake.

While the fundmentals to suggest that our economy was headed for a tailspin existed prior to the September Election, the Federal Government went on the sale that the fundamentals are good.

Our economic meltdown has its own problems and are only exacerbated by the worldwide market meltdown and subprime bs.

Our problems were not addressed, thus, they may well be compounding the problems for the current year.

I don't buy into the rosy outlook. I see a difficult and long road ahead, and a little more downhill before going uphill.

What Flaherty and Harper are doing is trying to fabricate a good economic engine to the world.

What is the world going to think when they discover our engine has seized. We are fooling no one in this country, and possibly trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of the G8.

I believe Canada is going to receive the biggest shit kicking yet.

http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servle...y/Business/home

Alberta's decline will be steepest

Province's economy will shrink by 2.3 per cent this year, RBC report says

Article Comments (9) Globe and Mail Update

March 12, 2009 at 7:40 AM EDT

Alberta, which just a few months ago was deemed Canada's oil-rich powerhouse, will suffer the steepest economic decline among the provinces this year, a new forecast says

[madmax]

Ok, have to bump up this thread.... Get your votes in early....... Here are some articles to help your decision.

TD Forecast moves Unemployment up from 8% to 10%

TD predicts 10% unemployment rate

Report cuts economic forecast amid ‘one of the most difficult years for Canadians'

Article Comments (38) HEATHER SCOFFIELD

Globe and Mail Update

March 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM EDT

Toronto-Dominion Bank has again slashed its forecast for Canada and the world, and now sees unemployment in Canada reaching 10 per cent this year, with almost 600,000 job losses.

“There is no doubt that 2009 will go down in history as one of the most difficult economic years for Canadians,” said Beata Caranci, TD's director of economic forecasting.

Economists were wrong by 400% in January... which makes me wonder what they are paid for, but here is there February Prediction, and Mr. Guyser, part of their range is in the region that you dare to wonder why some here picked a 40,000 Unemployment range.

Economists predict 40,000 to 70,000 job losses in Feb.

Job loss numbers for February expected to be grim: economists

Last Updated: Thursday, March 12, 2009 | 11:29 AM ET Comments33Recommend28CBC News

When Statistics Canada releases unemployment data for February on Friday, economists forecast it will show that between 40,000 to 70,000 jobs were lost across the country.

They also predict the unemployment rate will be between 7.4 per and 7.6 per cent.

While job losses for February are expected, economists don't expect to see the massive employment losses seen in January. During that month, the Canadian economy shed 129,000 jobs, which pushed the national jobless rate by 0.6 of a percentage point to 7.2 per cent.

In October 08 With the federal election in mid-October, there were large employment gains in public administration (+40,000), spread across most provinces. Most of the increase was among occupations related to the election process.

In November 08 ... employment fell by 71,000 in November

In December 08 ... full-time employment losses (-71,000)

In January 09....... 129,000

February? Who knows, but if the systems are overloading, is it the accumulated demand over the past 3 Months of Job Losses or is it something unknown in February, such as a shitload more losing their jobs?

This may not be the case. As spring comes upon us, the Labour Market grows, and people have to use Service Canada to indicate they are working, and may no longer need to collect EI, or that they are working and earning a paycheck, while still collecting a portion of EI. You can make up to 40% now with recent changes.

So, we may have two things overloading the system. More job losses and more jobs created.

The breakdown in January was that there was virtually no job creation in the part time sector, that is used to mask the loss of full time jobs. Thus is 120,000 fulltime jobs are lost and 30,000 part time jobs are filled, Unemployment is only 90,000.

I believe tommorrow Stats Can is releasing the data.

[Topaz]

You know those 200,000 losses in jobs can be a gain of 200,000 if the military can talk people in!! I've seen a couple of ads on both the Canadian and US networks about unemployed joining. I don't think people are listening. Your better off running for MP, were you make at least 110,000 yrly plus benefits, travel, party and make an ass of yourselves on Question Period when the cameras come on!!

[guyser]

Economists were wrong by 400% in January... which makes me wonder what they are paid for, but here is there February Prediction, and Mr. Guyser, part of their range is in the region that you dare to wonder why some here picked a 40,000 Unemployment range.

See....I predicted only a 300% error , therefore 120,000...ok not quite that many will, slightly less , say perhaps a nice round number of 100,000.

[Oleg Bach]

See....I predicted only a 300% error , therefore 120,000...ok not quite that many will, slightly less , say perhaps a nice round number of 100,000.

What the heck - lets go 200 thousand - do I hear 3? The numbers don't matter - all will have to reset attitude and approach - worker - management and middle management - It had to end sometime. We have just enough resourses to maintain a work force that is not deployed for a while - then deployment will resume, once we all decide what to do with the rest of our lives - change we can believe in - Hey - we don't need no smooth talking Obama - we have Canadian cold blooded nerve and confidence - no one will starve.

[Cameron]

The same Harper who described October, 2008 a "buying opportunity".

Obama said it was a good buying opportunity if you are looking for stocks....guess they are both "clowns".

[madmax]

We have TWO winners on Maple Leaf Web.

(OK, pretty damn close, the correct choice would have been 90,000 to 80000 to win Free Auto Insurance)

And yes, the Economists were WRONG once again.

82,600

OTTAWA — Canada lost 82,600 jobs in February — all full-time positions — pushing the unemployment rate to a six-year high of 7.7 per cent, Statistics Canada said Friday, as the country struggled under an economic downturn.

“This continues the downward trend in full-time employment observed since October,” the federal agency said. “Part-time employment has shown only a marginal increase over the same period.”

On a side note, I like to stop at different coffee shops to chew the fat. One that I have been going to for 25 years, had the doors padlocked this morning.

Guess they were tired of me coming in.

Edited March 13, 2009 by madmax

[normanchateau]

Anyone who expects to make money on mutual funds in 6 months, even during good times, needs to take a course on investments.

So you think October was a better month for buying opportunities than February? Hmmm, must be a Harper supporter.

[normanchateau]

"Canada lost a whopping 129,000 jobs in January and followed that up with a surprisingly large 82,600 contraction in February - a two-month total that when the different sizes in population are factored in would translate into a loss or more than two million jobs stateside.

By comparison, the U.S. actually lost about 1.3 million in the two months.

Trade figures released late last week also did not flatter Canada.

While Canada's trade deficit grew to $993 million in January and exports fell nine per cent, in the U.S. the trade deficit narrowed more than expected to US$36 billion from US$39.9 billion the prior month.

The same trends appear to be forming in other key indicators, including retail sales, which have been dropping sharply in Canada but rising modestly south of the border despite the weakness in the housing market."

http://www.570news.com/news/national/more....ontent=n031513A

[Topaz]

I think the unemployment is going to go up abit yet but with spring coming there may be a chance for some people who can't get EI to find something. I wonder how many people can't get EI, I guess the welfare rolls will tell that story. In my area the unemployment is 9.9% and people were told that when they applied for EI they could get it in 4 weeks and they have, could it have anything to do with it being a conservative riding or of the high unemployment? Some people who are going into EI and wanting training, have been told that if they are over 50, they probably won't get hired after training because most business, don't want older workers because of the health issues BUT they will not tell you that because it being against Canadian law and it would be a waste of time and money for the person being trained and the government. I can see that happening and I also know that a business would never come out and say that for fear of being sued. So what happens to the baby-boomers who can't get work?

[normanchateau]

My main concern is the doom and gloom stuff we hear about which crushes optimism and leads people to make questionable decisions about their own finances.

Speaking of promoting doom and gloom, "economist" Harper stated:

http://redtory.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/ha...-a-possibility/

[guyser]

the correct choice would have been 90,000 to 80000 to win Free Auto Insurance)

Sorry, but that is against the rules.

Not allowed to give that away.Just like you cant rafflea bottle in a bar.

[capricorn]

So you think October was a better month for buying opportunities than February? Hmmm, must be a Harper supporter.

I find little of value in your posts as they are all geared toward bashing Harper and the Conservatives. At least you're consistent.

[M.Dancer]

So you think October was a better month for buying opportunities than February? Hmmm, must be a Harper supporter.

Every month is a good month....as long as your smart enough not to cash out too quick...nevertheless, Cap is right,. 6 months in a MF is nothing. You buy bthe bfor a 5-20 year return.

[eyeball]

And then we have the IMF praising Canada's efforts to weather the storm.

http://www.economicnews.ca/cepnews/wire/article/255372

Even with that glowing endorsement, I just don't believe anyone anymore.

My main concern is the doom and gloom stuff we hear about which crushes optimism and leads people to make questionable decisions about their own finances.

Actually it was my pessimism that led me to make what's looking like a better decision all the time. I started casting about for opportunities to get back into commercial fishing and managed to land one, just in the nick of time it seems. Logging and mining collapsed around here during the Great Depression and likewise during recessions, but not fishing. Tourism has both replaced and displaced most of the primary industries aound here but I suspect people will need to eat far more than they need to look at a whale.

My question about the so-called recovery is what exactly is it we're trying to recover, a set of fundamentals or the ability to get things back on track or something? It's fairly obvious this collapse was triggered by the over-reach for yield into a make believe world of value for nothing through the so-called products of finacial alchemists and I think people are deeply deluded if they expect recovery means somehow getting back on the same track they just fell off.

I've produced real things that people actually need most of my life, like logs and fish. Even a glimpse of a whale or a sea-otter is more real than a tranched up suburb. I suppose in simple economic terms there's little difference between my producing a boatload of fish or a boatload of happy tourists. In the case of the former however every boatload of fish I bring in creates about 8 hours of work for 70 people or so, not to mention the jobs and real value that is added between the processors and the people who ship, handle and serve our produce around the world. In the case of the latter most of the boatload of tourists I take out depends on their ability to produce or extract value from something else. Whether it was real or otherwise didn't seem to matter a few months ago but that's all changed now. I suspect many of the tourists I've been taking out these last eight years have been producing most of their wealth in the make believe world of Wall Street.

I think we need to remake our economy not recover it, because for the most part there's actually nothing there to recover or more to the point, recover it with. The sad reality is that there is just a whole lot less of the real world to fall back on or add value to. That said and for what its worth I'm feeling more optimistic about my own fortunes than I have for many months now. Its almost surreal.

[bush_cheney2004]

....My question about the so-called recovery is what exactly is it we're trying to recover, a set of fundamentals or the ability to get things back on track or something? It's fairly obvious this collapse was triggered by the over-reach for yield into a make believe world of value for nothing through the so-called products of finacial alchemists and I think people are deeply deluded if they expect recovery means somehow getting back on the same track they just fell off.

Commercial fisheries should certainly know this more than many other sectors, having given new meaning to the word "greed" long ago.

[eyeball]

Commercial fisheries should certainly know this more than many other sectors, having given new meaning to the word "greed" long ago.

Absolutely. It takes a plunderer to know a plunderer.

I think you also have to live with the consequences of fewer real opportunities to truely appreciate how precious they are, and how limited the unreal one's are too.

Edited March 15, 2009 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

....I think you also have to live with the consequences of fewer real opportunities to truely appreciate how precious they are, and how limited the unreal one's are too.

There are still many real opportunities, old and new. Those who cannot or will not make the leap shall be left behind. It has always been thus.