6 month madaTORY for 1 plant

bush_cheney2004 · March 1, 2009

Funny becuase there is just as much a chance that order could be other way.

No...just funny as I wrote it.....a pithy beauty with sarcasm, social commentary, and "gateway drug" implication efficiently squeezed into one single line. All without the help of dope.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

No it's not...I used to know a pothead, but now he abuses heroin!

Heroin should be made legal but only to those that are over 75 years old ---could get them up and running and all dreamy...you don't have to worry about addiction, seeing the only thing they are addicted to is the imminence of death.. :rolleyes: It's ironic that most modern cocaine users were victims of the Ritalin industry as kids. If big buisness and gov can finally decide that they are going to be moral about substance sales - then we may take the cracking down on street dope crime more seriously.

SSD · March 1, 2009

Heroin should be made legal but only to those that are over 75 years old ---could get them up and running and all dreamy...you don't have to worry about addiction, seeing the only thing they are addicted to is the imminence of death.. It's ironic that most modern cocaine users were victims of the Ritalin industry as kids. If big buisness and gov can finally decide that they are going to be moral about substance sales - then we may take the cracking down on street dope crime more seriously.

Why do you want to crack down on dope? Aren't you conservative? A real conservative, Ron Paul, down in the States, thinks that the money spent on the war on drugs could be better spent elsewhere or in the pocket of people. If someone wants to use drugs and is over the age of 18 (or19), then so be it. The government should protect us from ourselves unless we have some inherent mental illness.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

Why do you want to crack down on dope? Aren't you conservative? A real conservative, Ron Paul, down in the States, thinks that the money spent on the war on drugs could be better spent elsewhere or in the pocket of people. If someone wants to use drugs and is over the age of 18 (or19), then so be it. The government should protect us from ourselves unless we have some inherent mental illness.

When I see perfectly normal people changed for the worst via Prosac and other products, it's distressing. The inherent mental illness might just be that some families pride themselves on being intergenerationally evil..those I say dope up and push aside -Good people should not be drugged just to please big pharma.. You mention mental illness - drug use of all kinds can in time generate orgainic mental illness..chronic pot and coke users are totally unreasonable and eventually become demented..some are not smart enough to be recreational users - some will destroy themselves with drugs - legal and not.

bush_cheney2004 · March 1, 2009

Why do you want to crack down on dope? Aren't you conservative? A real conservative, Ron Paul, down in the States, thinks that the money spent on the war on drugs could be better spent elsewhere or in the pocket of people....

Which other agenda items from "real conservatives...down in the States" are you ready to embrace?

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

Which other agenda items from "real conservatives...down in the States" are you ready to embrace?

Conservatives conserve. Where is the conservation of human resourses here? Where is the conservation of funds that supposedly if not used on the "war on drugs" - going to be conserved? Where is the guarentee that money saved will be used to improve and conserve the best parts of society? I don't think there are any conservatives left, do you?

bush_cheney2004 · March 1, 2009

.... I don't think there are any conservatives left, do you?

Nope....now they are called Libertarians.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

Nope....now they are called Libertarians.

Those are the people who rock up on their tippy toes like British school boys when they talk..the ones who's mothers said repeatedly - my child is gifted. Now that child grows up and is entitled to everything and all are so so smart.....If you want to be a real liberal - then actually liberate what needs and deserves to be free...If you want to be a real conservative then guard what is good and sustain it....I really don't have a clue what the bastardized word Liberal - has suddenly become liberal tarians...what's a tarian?

SSD · March 1, 2009

Nope....now they are called Libertarians.

They are called libertarian conservatives. The GoP party has been elected on these values for decades ever since Goldwater instilled them (since diluted but Bush after he got elected in 2000).

eyeball · March 1, 2009

Nope....now they are called Libertarians.

Wrong, now they're called socialists. Who knows what Libertarians are thinking these days. I bet a lot of them have brains that are squirming like toads though.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

They are called libertarian conservatives. The GoP party has been elected on these values for decades ever since Goldwater instilled them (since diluted but Bush after he got elected in 2000).

Any libertarians I have met have to much respect for those with money and power...they are a pandering bunch waiting for some mythical trickle down effect that never comes from real conservatives who conserve to the point of hording at times.

SSD · March 1, 2009

Any libertarians I have met have to much respect for those with money and power...they are a pandering bunch waiting for some mythical trickle down effect that never comes from real conservatives who conserve to the point of hording at times.

So, what you are telling me is that only social conservatives are real conservatives? What about fiscal conservatives, which you are obviously not. You want to spend, spend, spend on making bigger prisons, bigger police forces, more control over what people do. Its not free you know. I don't see a difference between the way you social conservatives spend (bigger jails, police, and military) and people on the left-centre (money in healthcare, national childcare). Actually, to tell you the truth, since Reagan, all "conservatives" have created bigger deficits than liberals (small l) and it was liberals (including Clinton) who came in to clean up the mess.

Oh yeah, Ron Paul IS a conservative--a fiscal conservative. Don't get the definition wrong either. Harper ISN'T a fiscal conservative. Cutting taxes doesn't make you one. Cutting spending, however, is. Only then can you think about cutting taxes.

eyeball · March 1, 2009

I don't see a difference between the way you social conservatives spend (bigger jails, police, and military) and people on the left-centre (money in healthcare, national childcare).

The difference is that the former is moral engineering as opposed to social engineering.

The WOD is by far the biggest moral engineering project the planet has ever seen.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

The difference is that the former is moral engineering as opposed to social engineering.
The WOD is by far the biggest moral engineering project the planet has ever seen.

Social conservatives are actually anti-social conservatives - to want bigger military - bigger jails etc..and more police - means one thing - they need more force to protect them from those they offend.

DrGreenthumb · March 1, 2009

So I think the appropriate part of the six month minimum which people are ignoring is this: Offence is committed for the purpose of trafficking.
In other words, if you grow your own weed in small amounts for your own consumption, the six month mandatory minimum does not apply.

No the mandaTory minimum goes up higher if there are "aggravating factors" such as for the purpose of trafficking. So the 6 month mandatory minimum does apply to even small ammounts for personal use.

How is 1 plant going to be used for the purposes of trafficking anyway?

Oh yeah, trafficking is defined as selling, giving away, or even sharing. Passing a joint is trafficking, so by the government's definition pretty much all pot is grown for the purpose of trafficking. Don't try to lie to people and say nobody would ever get charged for trafficking for passing a joint because Marc Emery was sentenced to 9 months in a saskatoon jail for doing just that.

Now how about the other "factors" that increase the mandaTORY minimum even higher, like growing or selling as part of organized crime. The gooferment defines organized crime as any crime that involves 3 or more people.

So again if I grow 1 plant, give my brother half of the bud I get and he gives a gram to his wife(or even just shares a joint with her) we are now considered organized crime. I'll have to check the bill again but i think that would push the mandaTORY minimum for growing that 1 plant up to 2 years.

Growing 1 plant "near a school or other place frequented by youth" also increases the mandaTORY minimum higher. Who gets to define "NEAR"? In a city that's pretty much everywhere.

Is your son a cop too? Or is someone in your family sucking on the prohibition tit in some other way? Addictions councillor? Prison guard? lawyer? which is it Argus? You can tell us, we already don't respect you anyway.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

As some crafty and over bearing legalist once said - "There are the convicted and those who are of the class of the not yet convicted - they want to crimminalize all of us if they can. This is just the begining of a slow process of removing human rights ---- - so If I was to be standing out side the local pub - and someone fires up a joint...and I am in the mood that day to supliement my beer buzz with a draw or two of pot -----and a person hands me a joint....(he is now trafficing) - now _ if I hand it back then I am also trafficing...boy oh boy - your government hates you and now your friends are going to hate you for not giving them a second toke.. :lol: Talk about devide and conquer.

capricorn · March 1, 2009

You can tell us, we already don't respect you anyway.

I have noticed that when you give your opinion you use the royal "we". Well DrG, I am not part of your "we" and you should not presume to speak for all of us here.

In the case of your remark to Argus, I will decide for myself who I respect and who I don't.

bluegreen · March 1, 2009

So I think the appropriate part of the six month minimum which people are ignoring is this: Offence is committed for the purpose of trafficking.
In other words, if you grow your own weed in small amounts for your own consumption, the six month mandatory minimum does not apply.

Argus, go to the department of Justice link and look again. Possession of a single pot plant is punishable by a minimum 6 months in prison. If the 'crime' is aggravated by growing the plant in a rental premise, then the minimum goes up to 9 months. This is not for trafficking, it's for growing a plant. If the 'offense' is aggravated by being for the purpose of trafficking, then the jail term goes to a maximum of 14 years. 14 years!!! People who grow a single plant for their mom's MS are now traffickers, and face up to 14 goddam years in prison! I am sickened by this abuse of power. I am outraged! I almost never blog on policy, but I stayed up late last night :

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My guess is, that since your' defense of the policy is based upon a mistaken assumption, that you will realize that no matter what you think about the wisdom of people smoking pot, you will agree that this is a draconian punishment, that is utterly unwarranted. All kinds of good people will spend time in jail, and YOU and I will foot the bill, while destroying their lives.

Edited March 1, 2009 by bluegreen

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

As a young guy of 18 - I was busted for a plant - that was about 2 inches high...the damned thing did not even have a THC reading yet. I was marginalized socially and 40 years latter - I am considered a crimminal...and once you are crimminalized - you have a thing called a RECORD/// Then it is easy after the first conviction to convict..once your record is tainted - then it can be blackened to the point that you will never hold public office or a good bonable job. All for what? A damned bean sprout?

eyeball · March 1, 2009

Growing 1 plant "near a school or other place frequented by youth" also increases the mandaTORY minimum higher. Who gets to define "NEAR"? In a city that's pretty much everywhere.

I wonder how many bars, liquor stores and tobacco outlets in Canada are within two blocks of a school? In my town, all of these can be found within a couple of blocks of a school.

Ironically the courtroom the government uses to prosecute people for doing drugs is next door to the liquor store it uses to peddle drugs.

I'm still completely mystified as to why the gang running the liquor store didn't shoot it out with the gang that opened up the new beer and wine store. That said, the beer and wine store is at least three blocks from the school.

Edited March 1, 2009 by eyeball

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

Growing a plant near a school is bad - but having a gun hidden under a trash can out side the school is just fine --- as if these people care about our youth// :lol:

DrGreenthumb · March 1, 2009

As a young guy of 18 - I was busted for a plant - that was about 2 inches high...the damned thing did not even have a THC reading yet. I was marginalized socially and 40 years latter - I am considered a crimminal...and once you are crimminalized - you have a thing called a RECORD/// Then it is easy after the first conviction to convict..once your record is tainted - then it can be blackened to the point that you will never hold public office or a good bonable job. All for what? A damned bean sprout?

Oleg I am very sorry to hear that your government committed such a heinous assault on your character and your future potential by saddling you with a criminal record for something so obviously not criminal. It is terrible that a government in a so-called "free country" would behave in such a dispicable manner. It is even more shameful that steven Harper and his conservatives want to make matters even worse, by putting people into cages for what? A damned bean sprout?

Nobody should be imprisoned for growing a plant, in fact anyone who uses cannabis should be ENCOURAGED to grow their own so that they are not forced to support the criminal black market whom the gooferment has handed 100% of the cannabis business.

Oleg Bach · March 1, 2009

Oleg I am very sorry to hear that your government committed such a heinous assault on your character and your future potential by saddling you with a criminal record for something so obviously not criminal. It is terrible that a government in a so-called "free country" would behave in such a dispicable manner. It is even more shameful that steven Harper and his conservatives want to make matters even worse, by putting people into cages for what? A damned bean sprout?
Nobody should be imprisoned for growing a plant, in fact anyone who uses cannabis should be ENCOURAGED to grow their own so that they are not forced to support the criminal black market whom the gooferment has handed 100% of the cannabis business.

After experimenting will all of the substances as a youngster - I am not a big supporter of mind altering drugs...besides as I transformed and developed spiritually - I am already out of the ball park - If I smoke now I have to buffer the pot a bit of alcohol..and smoke a very moderate amount...and it is not a daily thing with me --- in fact I a very high naturally and smoking brings me down - but to party with the locals - it was wonderful to take a drink and a small puff --- there is a group of very fine pool players across the street and most are smokers - they are very bright and sweet people.

The point I was making about the crimminalization of people via a plant is in the fact that once you are convicted by a very colonialist judicary - for anything - you become fair game to be progressively lowered to that of the crimminal class --- I am not a crimminal - on paper I appear to be one...it is very unfair.

noahbody · March 2, 2009

You did no such thing because my claims were not false. 1-200 plants nets a mandatory 6 month sentence under the new bill. Seems like if I'm going to grow 1 plant for my own use I might as well grow 200 as the penalty willll be the same.

Growing one plant for personal use won't get you 6 months. It's less than 200, with the production purpose being trafficking. Therefore, passing around a joint, though it may be considered trafficking, would not qualify, unless you were dumb enough to say you didn't grow pot for personal use, you did if for your friends.

Focusing on one plant is therefore a little ridiculous. How may grow-ops in Canada do you think have a single plant?

KingIggy · March 2, 2009

Only a behavioural Fascist would defend the Neo-Con, DEA style drug-war clampdown on Canadians. The US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet, many or most there for non-violent, consentual "crimes" (according to puritanical doctrine). The only benefit is to the private prison industry and to Fascists who enjoy mass jailing pot users. The US still has homicide rates higher than any other western, industrialized nation.

Harper and his band of Republican puppets are blind, repressive, regressive, ignorant, hypocritical, destructive maniacs. If you defend them, then you are a blind, repressive, regressive, ignorant, destructive, hypocritical maniac as well.