Sir Bandelot Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Posted March 4, 2009 Calgary Herald editorial.http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/just+thi...1805/story.html There has been similar stuff from Harper's base on radio and other newspapers. With the sad news today of three more Canadians killed, and comments from Harper that the war is not winnable, many are left wondering what the hell is going on. This about-face comes right after he meets with Barack Obama, who will likely make a tactical shift in the use of military in Afghanistan. Right away we hear Harper singing a different tune, as though we should all simply forget what he said before? Is Stephen Harper just a lap-dog for the US President? Those soldiers gave their lives for this garbage! Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 With the sad news today of three more Canadians killed, and comments from Harper that the war is not winnable.... read closer. Harper did not say the war was unwinnable even though you wish he did. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Topaz Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Today, were told that three more Canadians were killed because of IED's, and two were hurt. They were coming back from successfully stopping another IED from exploding, when they hit one. The Taliban seems to be able to keep these weapons their main means of killing NATO troops but I wonder why the Canadian military haven't tried using a device the US has apparently invented, to blow the IED's up before any vehicle reaches them?? BTW, I came across this article saying that it will take 600,000 troops to win the Afghanistan war but were will they come from?? http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/200...8608866-ap.html Quote
Topaz Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 read closer. Harper did not say the war was unwinnable even though you wish he did. Harper did say it was unwinnable, by military alone, but he also said he the past he does make deals with terrorists, so how can you end a war that you can't end by military IF you don't talk to the enemy?? More and More the NDP, are looking like they knew what they were talking about the war. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 More and More the NDP, are looking like they knew what they were talking about the war. Not by a long shot. Especially if they can't figure out how to win a war on more than one front (ie military, political, economic) Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Not by a long shot. Especially if they can't figure out how to win a war on more than one front (ie military, political, economic) No modern war has ever been won by military might alone. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 No modern war has ever been won by military might alone. I'd argue that no modern war has been won period, unless you count Vietnam but even there many would argue that was only a battle within a war so... Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 Calgary Herald editorial.http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/just+thi...1805/story.html There has been similar stuff from Harper's base on radio and other newspapers. You know what they say if you're not with 'us'... Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted March 4, 2009 Report Posted March 4, 2009 I'd argue that no modern war has been won period. You would lose the argument. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jdobbin Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 Afghan security report released today. http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...0A0v3FlPh1_m9XQ However, the report says the insurgency's spread and intensification across the strife-ridden country has eroded the confidence in their safety of Afghans in Kandahar province, where the bulk of Canada's 2,750 troops are stationed.Recent polling shows the number of Kandaharis who think safety is improving fell to 30 per cent from 50 per cent in the span of a year, the report says. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I hate to say it but creating a lasting liberal democracy in Afghanistan is likely a pipe dream. The only real alternative is to have one last offensive to kill as many Taliban as possible and then arm the Afghan military as much as we can. Ensure we have secular leaders in positions of power and make them the check on fundamentalism. We can't have our forces dying in Afghanistan for a generation if the people of the country are not willing to fight for their own country. Harper did say it was unwinnable, by military alone, but he also said he the past he does make deals with terrorists, so how can you end a war that you can't end by military IF you don't talk to the enemy?? More and More the NDP, are looking like they knew what they were talking about the war. Not really, the NDP aren't realists when it comes to foreign affairs, they're idealists. They're the kind of people you see at a Fish concert smoking dope and talking about how we would all be living in harmony if all the little Eichmann's would go away. They also opposed any military action immediately after 9/11, which is just plain stupid. That's like seeing your neighbour getting raped and just sitting around hoping the guy doesn't come to you next. Edited March 5, 2009 by Canadian Blue Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
M.Dancer Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 I hate to say it but creating a lasting liberal democracy in Afghanistan is likely a pipe dream. I hope no one is under the illusion that was our goal. Building a liberal democracy in a country where the majority are illiterate is pointless....first you need stability to build schools and universities to teach.....liberal arts.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 I hope no one is under the illusion that was our goal. What illusion have you been under? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
M.Dancer Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 What illusion have you been under? None. I keep trying to impress upon you we are not alike. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 I keep trying to impress upon you we are not alike. Stop wasting your time, you accomplished that a long long time ago. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Topaz Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 Well, we've had alot of view on this war but I found an article that says what the US and some of the politicans are saying about the war. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4738 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 Well, we've had alot of view on this war but I found an article that says what the US and some of the politicans are saying about the war. Great...but when do we get to read about what Canada and some of the politicians are saying about the "war" ? ....own it as your own decision and full NATO member.... Kudos on the well format and working link.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Canadian Blue Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 I hope no one is under the illusion that was our goal. Building a liberal democracy in a country where the majority are illiterate is pointless....first you need stability to build schools and universities to teach.....liberal arts.... Exactly, it's stupid to think that a largely illiterate theocratic society will be able to make decisions regarding their government tomorrow. We should build the institutions you talked about first, eventually when the Afghans are ready they'll have a liberal democracy. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
M.Dancer Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 I have repeated ad nauseam that “victory” for the NATO forces will be our departure from Afghanistan with an Afghan security force capable of dealing with a much reduced counterinsurgency threat. Many nations are functioning today with insurgents trying to disrupt their populations with little effect while life and business continue as usual: Spain/ETA, Colombia/FARC and Peru/Shining Path provide at least three convincing examples. Lew Mackenzie in the G&M http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ialComment/home Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted March 5, 2009 Report Posted March 5, 2009 What Harper might have been saying after his first meeting with President Obama could be that just staying and not being aggressive we will never win - because we are not fully committed to victory...so with the upcoming surge of American troops about to take place - Maybe what Harper is stating in a round about way is that we may have to match in numbers to what America is sending - more troops and huge numbers - but we don't have them and there is no rush to enlist - because it is a stupid cause. What's next - a draft in Canada just to keep our America senior buisness partners happy? Damn this stupid dishonest "so a little girl can go to school" war! Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) I have repeated ad nauseam that “victory” for the NATO forces will be our departure from Afghanistan with an Afghan security force capable of dealing with a much reduced counterinsurgency threat. Many nations are functioning today with insurgents trying to disrupt their populations with little effect while life and business continue as usual: Spain/ETA, Colombia/FARC and Peru/Shining Path provide at least three convincing examples.Lew Mackenzie in the G&M http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ialComment/home If that's all it takes for you to declare it a victory, then there was no point even going into Afghanistan. We could have just left it the hell alone in the first place! Edited March 6, 2009 by Sir Bandelot Quote
eyeball Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 “victory” for the NATO forces will be our departure from Afghanistan with an Afghan security force capable of dealing with a much reduced counterinsurgency threat. Christ on a stick...that's even less likely than destroying it. Watch what happens when dingle-nuts pulls out of Iraq. That's what it will be like in Afghanistan when everyone finally cuts and runs there too. I'm just as certain now of total failure on all counts on all fronts in Afghanistan as I was in 2001. Nothing has changed. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 ....I'm just as certain now of total failure on all counts on all fronts in Afghanistan as I was in 2001. Nothing has changed. "Total failure" is impossible, so you can only be pleasantly surprised. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
M.Dancer Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 If that's all it takes for you to declare it a victory, then there was no point even going into Afghanistan. We could have just left it the hell alone in the first place! So you think leaving the Taleban in control and by extension, leaving Afghanistan as the base of al qaeda operations was an option? Do you by any chance advocate in hockey pulling the goalie in the 1st minute of the 1st period? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
scorpio Posted March 6, 2009 Report Posted March 6, 2009 "Total failure" is impossible, so you can only be pleasantly surprised. Ask the russians. Quote
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