Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) Though only Opposition Leader for about two months, Michael Ignatieff has been slowly making his way to the top. Everything the Tories throw at him have proven to be futile in the court of public opinion. The latest poll shows that he is narrowing the gap, and while the West is still keeping Harper on top, he is losing ground across the rest of the country. "The poll conducted for Canwest News Service and Global Television showed the Liberals have steadily narrowed a 23-point gap behind the Conservatives in early December to six points in the two months since Ignatieff replaced Stephane Dion as leader." Harper will need to pull a rabbit out of hat his pretty soon, because none of his attacks are sticking. 1. Wasn't an elected leader, but appointed - "A new poll suggests Canadians are favourably impressed by Michael Ignatieff’s installation as federal Liberal leader". 2. He's wishy washy for saying budget flawed but voting for it anyway- " Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff seems to have read the public mood precisely with his decision to support the Tory budget with conditions, a new poll suggests." 3. Michael Ignatieff Knew budget was not a good one and Canadians agreed - "It's probably the least-supported budget of all the ones he's delivered and at a time of crisis when he was supposed to make people feel better, I think it's benign," said Ipsos Reid senior vice-president John Wright. "For most people, it's made them feel indifferent....And only 23 per cent -- fewer than one in four Canadians -- believe Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's fourth budget will help them personally." What's interesting here are the comments after that reflect the true feelings. Some blame this on the coalition but the fact is Harper always had the chance to say no. A Coalition under Dion would have failed and next election the Conservatives would have got their desired majority. 4. Poll reveals slim majority favour deficit - Again, the ones least comfortable with the deficit are Harper's core supporters: - Alberta 48% Saskatchewan 40% Manitoba 40% I heard Stockwell Day's ridiculous comment in the house the other day, 'from the man who spent the last thirty years in the U.S.' I was glad Iggy didn't bite. It's getting old. I don't know whether Stocky's problem is math or geography, but it's not landing. I hope they've got better than that next election, because nobody cares. I went to the Library to get some of Iggy's books. They had two - the rest were out and a waiting list already begun. Everyone is curious and intrigued. Edited February 7, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
85RZ500 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 LOL, 6 views and no reply, let me be the first. PT you must be the classic troll and hypocritical for having the name Tory in your signature. We have voted Liberal all our lives and got out because of the lying, cheating and their efforts to foul the fabric of this great country. I wouldn't think of using their name in my sig'. I repeat, you've creamed your jeans over an arrogant dropin, one who weasels into the opportuniy of taking a job no one else worth anything would touch with a ten foot pole. LOL. OK I bit. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 In my view Iggy is making progress. Perhaps too much progress for the government to accept but time will tell. If the recent increases are sustained for a little while longer, then Harper has a large problem. When Iggy can see a way out of the coalition and into power then the hammer will fall. Quote
Bryan Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Do people think Iggy is better than Dion? Of course, it doesn't take much. Does that mean they'd vote for him? Hardly. After everything that's happened, Harper's support right now is the same as it was on election day. Did he do the right thing by supporting the budget? To save his own job he sure did. No chance he'd force an election that he'd lose badly and could not afford anyway. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 In my view Iggy is making progress. Perhaps too much progress for the government to accept but time will tell. If the recent increases are sustained for a little while longer, then Harper has a large problem. When Iggy can see a way out of the coalition and into power then the hammer will fall. I forgot to post the link for the new poll from the Calgary Herald. Another important number is one that I mentioned in another thread. Last election the Conservatives ran a very successful attack ad against the Liberals, that resulted in them losing 850,000 votes since 2006. However, he failed to inspire so never picked up even one of those. In fact, 170,000 people who voted for the Cons in 2006, opted to just stay home. He did not get a stronger mandate and only vote splitting gave him more seats. With more than a million votes at play, if Igantieff is able to inspire where Harper failed, we could see very different election results. Everyday it seems, a new Conservative scandal is coming back to haunt them, not to mention constant bad news about the economy, that always falls on the shoulders of the existing gov't. I also read the Calgary Herald everyday now. Most of Harper's support is still in the West. Yet is is the West who least likes the budget, least accepts the deficit and perhaps more importantly, are the most afraid of losing their jobs. Soaring job losses finally hit Alberta Albertans were the most concerned. "Albertans, whose economy has been fuelled by high oil prices, were concerned their job market was running out of gas. The poll found 40 per cent of respondents were less confident their job was safe, compared to 14 per cent who were more confident." If this budget fails to deliver, he could be on shaky ground with his base. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 Does that mean they'd vote for him? Hardly. After everything that's happened, Harper's support right now is the same as it was on election day. Actually, that's not true. I forgot to post the Calgary Herald Article in my original message but it clearly states that: "Nationally, the Conservatives retain a commanding lead in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. But the Liberals have overtaken the Conservatives in Ontario for the first time since the federal election, and retain a firm lead in Atlantic Canada." Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Wild Bill Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 I also read the Calgary Herald everyday now. Most of Harper's support is still in the West. Yet is is the West who least likes the budget, least accepts the deficit and perhaps more importantly, are the most afraid of losing their jobs.If this budget fails to deliver, he could be on shaky ground with his base. Sorry, PT! That just doesn't follow. Any salesman knows that it's not enough for a customer to become dissatisfied with a particular product. You still need a strong reason for him to abandon the incumbent choice and switch to another brand. While your argument might have some merit in the East, where there is a much larger number of 'changeable voters' I very much doubt if the Liberal brand could make more than 'mice nuts' progress in Alberta. Their name has just been too badly damaged for literally generations. Moreover, they have done literally nothing to attempt to change that. No, Harper would have to take a chainsaw to a busload of nuns and orphans before Alberta would switch to the Liberals in any significant numbers. The most success, if you could call it that, is a repetition of the old Chretien days, where the Liberals only ruled in the Eastern half of the country and yet still referred to themselves as the 'only truly national party!" The arrogance of that claim was part of what fueled the growth of Reform/Alliance and further ruined Liberal candidates' hopes in the West. Essentially, the Liberals were saying that an eastern-only party could be national but a western-only party couldn't. This was the same as saying western Canadians were second class citizens. Once again Canada would be divided politically. Still, we're used to that. Maybe it's our natural state of affairs. Maybe provinces SHOULD separate! We've seemed incapable of electing governments that truly represented us from coast to coast for the last 20 years, since Mulroney's days. It will take more than making Ignatief the unelected leader of the Liberal party to cause Harper's Tories to "be on shaky ground with his base." Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 Any salesman knows that it's not enough for a customer to become dissatisfied with a particular product. You still need a strong reason for him to abandon the incumbent choice and switch to another brand. Exactly. That was my point about the 850,000 votes lost by the Liberals last election. Harper could not get them to change their brand. However, now that the brand is 'new and improved', they could very easily win those back. The question is also whether or not they can entice the other 170,000 that voted Cons in 2006, and not in 2008 to get behind Ignatieff. I did. I voted PC until they were swallowed up by the Alliance/Reform. I then unenthusiastically voted NDP. The West will never vote Liberal. I know that. But if the present Conservative Party fractures and a viable alternative to the CP emerges, it might be a different thing. Again by the polls posted above: The West least likes the budget, the West least like the deficit spending, the West is more worried about losing their jobs (40% of Albertans) Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Wild Bill Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Exactly. That was my point about the 850,000 votes lost by the Liberals last election. Harper could not get them to change their brand. However, now that the brand is 'new and improved', they could very easily win those back.The question is also whether or not they can entice the other 170,000 that voted Cons in 2006, and not in 2008 to get behind Ignatieff. I did. I voted PC until they were swallowed up by the Alliance/Reform. I then unenthusiastically voted NDP. The West will never vote Liberal. I know that. But if the present Conservative Party fractures and a viable alternative to the CP emerges, it might be a different thing. Again by the polls posted above: The West least likes the budget, the West least like the deficit spending, the West is more worried about losing their jobs (40% of Albertans) Well, you might be right but somehow I find it hard to believe. First of all, the old PCs might have seized control of the present CPC but there can't be that many of them. After all, Canadians had soundly rejected the old PC party to the point where it was all but extinct. It was perceived as too similar to the Liberals. Why not simply vote Liberal? You yourself have admitted that you found both Liberal and NDP to be an easier choice than the new CPC. I would think that more likely Harper would lose the next party leadership convention in favour of a strong, more Reform-minded candidate. That's assuming there's one available, of course. Harper himself has kept such an iron grip on his MPs that we haven't seen many other potential stars strut their stuff. I'm not certain that moving back to more Reform style roots would mean losing the East for the CPC. The old party had been making steady progress. It just appeared that some in the leadership got a bit impatient. They had come from nowhere to the Opposition in less than 10 years but somehow that wasn't fast enough. If it did mean that the Tories became a predominantly western party so what? What else would be new? As I had said, the Liberals are obviously an eastern-only party. Look how quickly they were willing to dump the West with their attempt at a coalition! After all these years, I'm beginning to suspect that Canada should give up the attempt at being united across the continent. If the only way you can keep people in a country is with bribery, force or negating any other choices then perhaps you don't deserve to BE a country! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jerry J. Fortin Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Alberta is bleeding capital and jobs at a rate far higher than other locations. Even so, having a government dump money on a package that will cost far more than it benefits is still perplexing to say the least. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 Alberta is bleeding capital and jobs at a rate far higher than other locations. Even so, having a government dump money on a package that will cost far more than it benefits is still perplexing to say the least. You just have to read the comments at the end of every Calgary Herald post on the subject. I would like to see a poll, just in the West, that asked: If the (fiscally and socially conservative) Reform Party (I know they'll have to change their name) was to run a candidate in your riding would you a). Vote for the new party? or . Stay with the CP? The results would be interesting. Before worrying about the rest of the country, they'd better start listening to their base. They won't go Liberal (unless Hell really does freeze over) but a return to the original conservative principles might be welcome. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 We have voted Liberal all our lives and got out because of the lying I could send you more but just google 'Harper Lied' and then settle in for the afternoon. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
kimmy Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) The rise in Liberal popularity coincides with them choosing a leader who is sane and normal. The rise in Liberal popularity coincides with them turfing Dion and his fruitopian agenda. The rise in Liberal popularity coincides with them stepping away from Jack Layton and his fantasies. The Liberals' dramatic rebound under Ignatieff proves how far out on the fringe Dion and Layton really were, and how irrelevant Canada's lefties really are in the grand scheme of things. I am very pleased with what I have seen of Michael Ignatieff so far, and will definitely be giving him a lot of consideration when he asks for my vote. I anticipate Ignatieff being the first Liberal leader in a long time that will have a chance to make inroads in Western Canada. -k Edited February 7, 2009 by kimmy Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
gordiecanuk Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 I could send you more but just google 'Harper Lied' and then settle in for the afternoon. The afternoon? You wouldn't get 1/2 way through the list! Quote You're welcome to visit my blog: Canadian Soapbox
Oleg Bach Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 The afternoon? You wouldn't get 1/2 way through the list! Harper is a lawyer - snakes bite and lawyers lie..that's life in the big city - combine a law degree with politics and you have the product of exactly what is expected ---- Liars who tell the truth ----just enough to create the effect of crediblity. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Ummmmmm, no. Okay - a hockey player? Or is that the other guy? Anyway - you get my drift..as for the Inatieff figures going up - yes I can understand that - and it is possible that he will be PM some day...George Bernard Shaw the socialist said - "The majority is always wrong" - and there are enough liberals of limited scope and vision to vote him in...so what - It's the usual thing - the mob rules with their prince of intellect spewing second rate oratories in parliment that are all taken from his "studies" great - another Trudeau...who will parrot some re-vamped Trotskyism...and debase what was a great nation further. I would rather have a Prime Minister that lies some of the time than one that never lies and is delluded all of the time. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) I am very pleased with what I have seen of Michael Ignatieff so far, and will definitely be giving him a lot of consideration when he asks for my vote. I anticipate Ignatieff being the first Liberal leader in a long time that will have a chance to make inroads in Western Canada. -k Whether he makes inroads into the west is debatable, though not entirely impossible. I've just started reading one of his books, and am pleasantly surprised. I expected it to be dry, but it's not. It starts out when he was a journalist covering the War in Croatia. It's kind of a page turner and the reviews are excellent. The Montreal Gazette - "Uncannily comtemporary..." Washington Post - "Ignatieff writes like a dream..." Globe and Mail - Perhaps Ignatieff's succinct, popularly written primer with it's stark message will not fall on deaf ears. if it does, we'll all likely be the worse for it." Toronto Star - "Michael Ignatieff brings heart and generosity to tragedy." Calgary Herald - "Explores the heart of the most virulent nationalist conflicts around the world...a valuable, thought provoking book." I knew he was a journalist but had no idea he had been to so many dangerous places. He's led such a fascinating life. He will bring a wealth of experience to the office and a better understanding of how we fit in the scheme of things. Edited February 7, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
sharkman Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Could someone give me the following facts on Ignatieff because I thought he was interim leader. Is that right? If so, aren't interim leaders prevented from running for leadership? Is Mike going to be allowed to run? Quote
madmax Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Do people think Iggy is better than Dion? Yes Quote
madmax Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 The question is also whether or not they can entice the other 170,000 that voted Cons in 2006, and not in 2008 to get behind Ignatieff. I did. I voted PC until they were swallowed up by the Alliance/Reform. I then unenthusiastically voted NDP. How many times did you vote NDP??? Quote
noahbody Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 Harper is a lawyer - snakes bite and lawyers lie..that's life in the big city - combine a law degree with politics and you have the product of exactly what is expected ---- Liars who tell the truth ----just enough to create the effect of crediblity. ... and ignoramuses believe Harper is a lawyer, when he isn't. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Posted February 7, 2009 Could someone give me the following facts on Ignatieff because I thought he was interim leader. Is that right? If so, aren't interim leaders prevented from running for leadership? Is Mike going to be allowed to run? Ignatieff is not an interim leader "Rae said at a news conference Tuesday afternoon he was dropping out of the leadership race for the "greater interest of the country." It is important that the Liberals have a permanent leader in place before Parliament resumes in January, he told reporters in Ottawa." With no contenders, he was named leader. The May convention will be about party renewal. I already got my invite. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Smallc Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 With no contenders, he was named leader. The May convention will be about party renewal. I already got my invite. AFAIK, he still has to be confirmed as leader. He is still technically the interim leader. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 AFAIK, he still has to be confirmed as leader. He is still technically the interim leader. When has technicallity ever interfered with the grand laid plans of mice and ----more mice. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.