Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Love him, hate him, or merely tolerate him; the writing is on the wall. Harper's days as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada are numbered. His latest mishandling of the Parliamentary crisis, that he himself created, has left even those in his own party cold. "OTTAWA - Their blades remain sheathed, but astonished Conservatives are quietly fuming about the tactical blunder they fear could toss them into opposition. And the blame seems to be landing on the prime minister's doorstep. Stunned Conservatives MPs are barely concealing their outrage. Many are venting their anger in private because of Stephen Harper's iron grip on the party and the uncertain prospects of a coalition of opposition parties. But while a few blame Harper's new top aide, Guy Giorno, for putting their government on a knife's edge, most lay responsibility for their unprecedented predicament squarely at the feet of the prime minister." http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/news.../article/498790 They looked to him to get them out of it, but instead he may have damaged good reputations to save his job. "After failing to bring forth an essential stimulus package last week, Stephen Harper has betrayed the fundamental obligation of a prime minister: to build and strengthen national unity in possibly the world's most difficult federation to govern. Beginning last week, Mr. Harper has sought to avoid a legitimate vote of confidence and its unpleasant consequences not by sober or even merely partisan constitutional arguments but, culminating in Wednesday's television address, by a barrage of deliberately gross distortions. He is turning a serious dispute over the need for immediate economic stimulus into an unrelated and dangerous matter of national unity." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...NStory/politics "As Prime Minister Stephen Harper battles a political coup from a potential opposition coalition, two mysterious websites suggest -- or are intended to suggest -- that he may also be facing a mutiny from within." http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...081130/20081130 Two names have been tossed around, Jim Prentice and John Baird; but I'm sure there are others in the Party who are capable to lead. Peter MacKay? Maurice Vellacott? Any suggestions? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Molly Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 ... Baird.... **shudder** Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Argus Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Love him, hate him, or merely tolerate him; the writing is on the wall. Harper's days as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada are numbered. His latest mishandling of the Parliamentary crisis, that he himself created, has left even those in his own party cold. Let me guess - you think Joe Clark should be leader. But then, he's still too much a vicious, extreme-right neo-con. Hmmm.... would Justin Trudeau make you happy? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Mr.Canada Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 ... Baird.... **shudder** Baird voted in favour of Same sex marriage, one of the few Tories to do so. As did Jim Prentice, who I see as the next leader. Aside from all of that I find it funny that P.Tory can criticize the Tories one day then decide when and who they choose for their leader. That is none of your business so please stay out of it. It is the business of the Conservative Party and its members, you're a member of neither. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Drea Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 That is none of your business so please stay out of it. It is the business of the Conservative Party and its members, you're a member of neither. Well isn't that rich, coming from you... You may want to take your own advice... women's bodies are none of your business so you should stay out of it! Currently there is no one to step up, no "Palin" to rally the right in Canada. Awwww too bad. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 ... Baird.... **shudder** A agree. Shudder. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 Let me guess - you think Joe Clark should be leader.But then, he's still too much a vicious, extreme-right neo-con. Hmmm.... would Justin Trudeau make you happy? Joe who? And why would Justin Trudeau run for leadership of the Conservative Party? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 Baird voted in favour of Same sex marriage, one of the few Tories to do so. As did Jim Prentice, who I see as the next leader.Aside from all of that I find it funny that P.Tory can criticize the Tories one day then decide when and who they choose for their leader. That is none of your business so please stay out of it. It is the business of the Conservative Party and its members, you're a member of neither. It's every bit my business. I help pay their salary. The next leader of any party is the business of all Canadians. If you only want it to be the business of members of the Conservative Party, don't let them run for leadership of the country. If they can't find anyone strong enough to hold together both factions of the Party, they'll probably implode anyway. You're not at least curious about who will running against Michael Ignatieff? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
DrGreenthumb Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 It's every bit my business. I help pay their salary.The next leader of any party is the business of all Canadians. If you only want it to be the business of members of the Conservative Party, don't let them run for leadership of the country. If they can't find anyone strong enough to hold together both factions of the Party, they'll probably implode anyway. You're not at least curious about who will running against Michael Ignatieff? Get a Libertarian fiscal conservative type like Marc Emery to run and I might even switch back to conservative lol. No seriously, the only way I'd ever vote Conservative is if Tommy Chong or Marc Emery were the leader. Quote
noahbody Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 And why would Justin Trudeau run for leadership of the Conservative Party? If you're one of the knives out for Harper, he doesn't have to worry about being cut. Quote
Topaz Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 When the time comes for a new leader we'll have to see who does win, the west or the east. I'm sure McKay will in there for the east, but he'll have a tough time getting it when the west has more of the former alliance group wanting to keep the leadership over a former PC. Interesting time ahead. Quote
normanchateau Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Two names have been tossed around, Jim Prentice and John Baird; but I'm sure there are others in the Party who are capable to lead. Peter MacKay? Maurice Vellacott? Any suggestions? Prentice would be an excellent choice but his weak knowledge of French would be a liability in the same way that Dion's English speaking ability was a liability. John Baird is completely unacceptable to the social conservatives for his position on gay rights and abortion: http://www.socon.ca/events/true_conservative.html Moreover, the socons in CPC would never accept a party leader who's apparently gay: http://www.exaro.ca/2007/01/how-long-befor...ally-outed.html Then again, Baird might actually help CPC acquire some seats in ridings with a high GLBT population and where else would the socons go? There aren't too many parties to the right of CPC. My own personal preference for a new party leader is James Moore...a fluently bilingual social liberal and fiscal conservative from a riding west of the Rockies. He's also far more articulate than the dullard Stephen Harper. The only downside I see to Moore is that he was the "spokesman" for Harper when Harper's knowledge of the bribe to Cadman was publicized by Cadman's own widow. Defending an alleged criminal put Moore in a negative light but he might have sincerely believed that Harper was innocent. Speaking of which, I wonder how long it will be before Harper's lawsuit for defamation is withdrawn by Harper now that Harper's own audio expert reported that the tape implicating Harper was not doctored: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2...adman-tape.html Quote
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 Get a Libertarian fiscal conservative type like Marc Emery to run and I might even switch back to conservative lol.No seriously, the only way I'd ever vote Conservative is if Tommy Chong or Marc Emery were the leader. That would definitely be taking the 'High' road. I don't know if I could ever be enticed to vote Conservative again. They have a handful of Red Tories, but too few for my liking. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Prentice would be an excellent choice but his weak knowledge of French would be a liability in the same way that Dion's English speaking ability was a liability.John Baird is completely unacceptable to the social conservatives for his position on gay rights and abortion: http://www.socon.ca/events/true_conservative.html Moreover, the socons in CPC would never accept a party leader who's apparently gay: http://www.exaro.ca/2007/01/how-long-befor...ally-outed.html Then again, Baird might actually help CPC acquire some seats in ridings with a high GLBT population and where else would the socons go? There aren't too many parties to the right of CPC. My own personal preference for a new party leader is James Moore...a fluently bilingual social liberal and fiscal conservative from a riding west of the Rockies. He's also far more articulate than the dullard Stephen Harper. The only downside I see to Moore is that he was the "spokesman" for Harper when Harper's knowledge of the bribe to Cadman was publicized by Cadman's own widow. Defending an alleged criminal put Moore in a negative light but he might have sincerely believed that Harper was innocent. Speaking of which, I wonder how long it will be before Harper's lawsuit for defamation is withdrawn by Harper now that Harper's own audio expert reported that the tape implicating Harper was not doctored: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2...adman-tape.html I never really thought of James Moore. I'll have to read up a bit about him. John Baird's homosexuality may not be as much a problem as his advocacy for same-sex marriage. In Ontario he was instrumental in getting it passed and even berated any opposition to the bill within his own Party. (Quite vocally) Peter MacKay would have a problem with the Social Conservatives. When I mentioned Harper's chair throwing incident, as per Lloyd Mackey's book, it was because the Reformers wanted to pass a motion against Mackay. Not sure why, but obviously no love lost. He is also a pal of Grant Devine, and I doubt they want that dragged up again. They dodged that bullet once with Tom Lukiwski. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ind...s=M1ARTM0011027 The French would be tough for Prentice. He could learn it but like you say, would be no better than Dion's English. I'm still perusing the list. Rhona Ambrose is very bright, but not sure if she has leadership qualities. Not yet anyway. Edited January 25, 2009 by Progressive Tory Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
ironstone Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 If indeed the knives are being drawn behind Mr.Harper's back,it's too bad.Yes he does keep a rather tight rein on his members,but so did the morally bankrupt Jean Chretien.Funny how his supporters described this as an example of fine leadership,but Harper is portrayed as a dictator.One huge difference between Harper and Chretien though,for all his faults,real or imagined,at heart he an honest man.The same certainly cannot be said of someone like Chretien.If Harper is on the way out,at least there are many talented people to choose a successor from. As for King Iggy,he is a good fit to lead the Liberal Party.He seems to change like a chameleon,depending on what he thinks the people want to hear.Iggy certainly has the Liberal "royal jelly" as far as arrogance is concerned.He had better win the next election big time,or the knives will come out for him too.... Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
normanchateau Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Peter MacKay would have a problem with the Social Conservatives. Good point. I had forgotten that Peter MacKay would be a problem for the socons in CPC. Remember Bill C-250? That was the legislation which made it a hate crime to promote or advocate the killing of homosexuals. Showing their true socon colours, Stephen Harper and the Alliance Party voted against C-250. Most Liberals, NDP, Bloc and PCs voted for it so the legislation passed. Peter MacKay of course voted for C-250 just as he voted for same sex marriage. Unlike the soon-to-be-dumped Harper, MacKay is a centrist like Ignatieff. Quote
normanchateau Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Harper ,at heart he an honest man. Sure he is http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2...adman-tape.html Stephen Harper and Conrad Black, two honest men who had no idea what the Northern Foundation was all about when they joined it. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 If indeed the knives are being drawn behind Mr.Harper's back,it's too bad.Yes he does keep a rather tight rein on his members,but so did the morally bankrupt Jean Chretien.Funny how his supporters described this as an example of fine leadership,but Harper is portrayed as a dictator.One huge difference between Harper and Chretien though,for all his faults,real or imagined,at heart he an honest man.The same certainly cannot be said of someone like Chretien.If Harper is on the way out,at least there are many talented people to choose a successor from.As for King Iggy,he is a good fit to lead the Liberal Party.He seems to change like a chameleon,depending on what he thinks the people want to hear.Iggy certainly has the Liberal "royal jelly" as far as arrogance is concerned.He had better win the next election big time,or the knives will come out for him too.... I never voted for Chretien. I admire him now as a statesman and loved when he strongarmed the pie thrower. Very funny. The trouble with Michael Ignatieff is that he's not used to using rhetoric, but instead speaks clearly. We're not used to that. A politician who actually thinks we're smart enough to know what he's saying, without waiting for the media to spin it. Refreshing. According to his own Party, Harper's job is on the line right now because of Stephen Harper. He's blamed it on everyone else, but the fact remains, he caused this and unfortunately will take many down with him. His future with the Conservative Party is tenuous at best. He knows it. I'd like to see the NDP choose a new leader soon too. Pat Martin would be my choice there. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 Good point. I had forgotten that Peter MacKay would be a problem for the socons in CPC. Remember Bill C-250? That was the legislation which made it a hate crime to promote or advocate the killing of homosexuals. Showing their true socon colours, Stephen Harper and the Alliance Party voted against C-250. Most Liberals, NDP, Bloc and PCs voted for it so the legislation passed. Peter MacKay of course voted for C-250 just as he voted for same sex marriage. Unlike the soon-to-be-dumped Harper, MacKay is a centrist like Ignatieff. And let's not forget: Alliance misused free mail, Tories say By CAMPBELL CLARK Friday, May 17, 2002 "Tory House Leader Peter MacKay charged that the letter was an abuse of the privilege that allows MPs to send mail related to their parliamentary functions for free. He said he and others on the Tory membership list in his Pictou-Antigonish-Guysborough riding received "franked" letters. "This is purely political," Mr. MacKay said."Not only is it inappropriate, it's against the franking privilege rules. Harper is a former member of Parliament. He should know that's not allowed."Mr. MacKay said the letter was signed by Mr. Harper and sent out without even a cover letter from Mr. Reynolds before the new Alliance Leader was returned to Parliament in a by-election this week.But Mr. Reynolds insisted the letter, which suggested that Tory Leader Joe Clark had misled his members about Mr. Harper's offer of a parliamentary coalition, fell within the rules, and the Tories' accusation is wrong. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:4g5obh...t=clnk&cd=6 Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Mr.Canada Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Well isn't that rich, coming from you... You may want to take your own advice... women's bodies are none of your business so you should stay out of it! Currently there is no one to step up, no "Palin" to rally the right in Canada. Awwww too bad. I walked right into that one...Nice one Drea you get a | in your column Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Mr.Canada Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 It's every bit my business. I help pay their salary. Alright you have a point there sir. You're not at least curious about who will running against Michael Ignatieff? Yeah, of coarse I am. Seeing that Ignatieff is a Red Tory as is Prentice perhaps the Tories need a stronger conservative imo. Ignatieff is going to pull the LPC back to the centre so the Tories need to go back to the right in terms of fiscal and social conservatism. Not too far as to abandon the centre-right votes who sometimes vote Liberal but a little. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Progressive Tory Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Posted January 25, 2009 Alright you have a point there sir.Yeah, of coarse I am. Seeing that Ignatieff is a Red Tory as is Prentice perhaps the Tories need a stronger conservative imo. Ignatieff is going to pull the LPC back to the centre so the Tories need to go back to the right in terms of fiscal and social conservatism. Not too far as to abandon the centre-right votes who sometimes vote Liberal but a little. Exactly. When someone mentioned James Moore, I looked him up. "Moore was the Secretary of State for Official Languages" Ignatieff is fluent in Russian and French, but Moore must also be fluent in a few. He's young. Well educated. However, do you think this would hurt his chances with the Party? "Moore is known for having liberal views on social issues that sometimes put him in conflict with other members of his party. He was one of the few libertarians in the mostly socially conservative Canadian Alliance. In 2004, he voted in favour of same-sex marriage after conducting a riding-wide poll of constituents (54% supported the issue). The issue has proven controversial within his own riding..." He did at least ask his constituents first. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Argus Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Good point. I had forgotten that Peter MacKay would be a problem for the socons in CPC. Remember Bill C-250? That was the legislation which made it a hate crime to promote or advocate the killing of homosexuals. Showing their true socon colours, Stephen Harper and the Alliance Party voted against C-250. Most Liberals, NDP, Bloc and PCs voted for it so the legislation passed. Peter MacKay of course voted for C-250 just as he voted for same sex marriage. Unlike the soon-to-be-dumped Harper, MacKay is a centrist like Ignatieff. This was the bill which could send people to prison if they tried to tell anyone about bible quotes, and could concievably get a court to rule the bible was hate literature. Not surprising anyone with any belief in freedom of religion or freedom of speeh voted against it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 Exactly. When someone mentioned James Moore, I looked him up. "Moore was the Secretary of State for Official Languages" Ignatieff is fluent in Russian and French, but Moore must also be fluent in a few. He's young. Well educated.However, do you think this would hurt his chances with the Party? "Moore is known for having liberal views on social issues that sometimes put him in conflict with other members of his party. He was one of the few libertarians in the mostly socially conservative Canadian Alliance. In 2004, he voted in favour of same-sex marriage after conducting a riding-wide poll of constituents (54% supported the issue). The issue has proven controversial within his own riding..." He did at least ask his constituents first. Bev Desjarlais did the same thing - talked to her constituents, and decided that she should vote as they wanted. She wasnt lucky enough to be a Tory, though, where such things are permitted. She was an NDP MP. Needless to say, she's no longer an NDP mp. You're not allowed to vote your conscience, or your constituents conscience in the NDP. Oddly, none of those people who keep decrying Harper's "absolute control" of his MPs ever concerns themselves with things like this. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
gc1765 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Posted January 25, 2009 I hope it's Jim Prentice. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
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