Pope reinstates bishop who denies the Holocaust

CANADIEN · February 5, 2009

I know you two clowns(punked, CANADIEN) are just trying to wind me up, I have to go.

Nope. Just trying to show the hypocrisy of your "follow everything the Church says, unless it stands in the way of prejudice and ignorance" position.

Mr.Canada · February 5, 2009

I know some liberal Catholics, I know some Conservative Catholics. Some of the Liberal ones may favour recognition of homosexual marriages or free choice on abortion. I've not met a single one yet who wants sodomy in the pews (eeven though there are a few bishops and cardinals who have helped priests who did such things go unpunished). And I most certainly never met anyone who suggested that aobrtions should be performed in church buildings.
Lying by exaggeration... Typical Mr. C.

People are NOT born homosexual. There is no such thing as a gay gene. If we go down that road then thieves and murderers will be claiming they are born like that.

Second, marriage is between man and woman only. God made Adam and Eve. He did not make Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve.

In case you don't know the Church teaching on homosexuality, here it is:

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

SOURCE

Abortion
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.

From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.

This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.

Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.

Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.

The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.

"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78

The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy.

Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

SOURCE

The Church teachings are also clear on abortion. For Catholics there is no choice. You must oppose both of these terrible acts.

John 15:6- 10
6

Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

7

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.

8

By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples.

As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love.

10

If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

There it is. Follow the rules and be embraced in HIS love or ignore HIM and burn for all time.

WIP · February 5, 2009

......but it appears that there was a major breakdown between the Pope and some of his underlings, and the Pope probably wasn't the least bit aware that Williamson was a Holocaust Denier. What happened after that seems fairly typical of anybody in high office who screws up big time;

So, none of those celibate men at the Vatican city/state could have been given the task of doing background checks on these priests before they were allowed back in? And it seems being a politician at the Vatican is no different than any other national leader, I suppose.

The only problem with this, as I have a problem with one of Obama's appointments going "Whoops, I guess I screwed up that tax return!" is how can you meaningfully judge the sincerity of such apologies. Does the Vatican actually believe that if Williamson stands in front of a microphone and says "I was wrong, the Holocaust really did happen and in something approaching the extent historians have calculated" that everyone will go "Well, hey, welcome back into the fold of the decent people."

Nevermind judging apologies! Since you brought up Barack Obama, at least he is one politician who is not so insecure that he is afraid to admit to making mistakes. Does that make him holier than the Pope?

CANADIEN · February 5, 2009

People are NOT born homosexual. There is no such thing as a gay gene.

Actually, the scientific jury is still out on whether people are born homosexuals or become so Not that it make homosexual acts less sinful, or that the response to that question has anything to do with the obligation to treat gays and lesbians with the dignity due to them as human beings.

In case you don't know the Church teaching on homosexuality, here it is

I already knew it, and the one on abortion too. Shall I now quote you the Bible on loving thy neighbours and on telling the truth, two things you are joyfully ignoring whenever they stand in the way of your prejudice.

The Church acknowledges the reality of the Holocaust. Those who, like you, engage in the denial of the Holocaust are engaging in a grave lie, and deny the Truth. That, combined with the anti-semitism evident in opinions like "the Jews and Muslims might as well kill each others, at least this will result in more conversions" constitutes a form of ignorance and hatred that is, IMO, a worse sin that thinking gay marriages should be recognized by the State.

If I call you a Catholic, I'll call them Cathoolics too.

WIP · February 5, 2009

People are NOT born homosexual. There is no such thing as a gay gene.

Shut up and do some reading on the subject (start here), instead of just tossing out your opinions and uninformed observations. There are enough studies identifying differences in brain structure, hormone levels and yes, genetics, to indicate that there are physical factors determining sexual orientation. I have never heard anyone tell me they're gay because they decided to become homosexuals....and yet this stupid, nonsensical explanation is promulgated by churches all across the country.

If we go down that road then thieves and murderers will be claiming they are born like that.

And many are "born like that" since abnormal brain function can be correlated with psychopathic personality disorder -- since these people have little or no capacity for empathy, they are far more likely to become cold-blooded killers later in life than the average person. Psychopaths represent 1% to 2% of the general population, yet as much as 20% of the U.S. prison population. Or others can develop a physical abnormality that will lead to abnormal psychological behaviour. One famous example from 40 years ago, chronicled by neurologist Marvin Zuckerman, tells the story of Charles Whitman, who killed 16 people in a wild shooting spree back in 1969. An autopsy later revealed that he had a growing amygdaloid tumor that coincided with the development of violent impulses he was feeling...biology is destiny!

Second, marriage is between man and woman only. God made Adam and Eve. He did not make Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve.

Adam and Eve have nothing to do with human origins. They are a myth....and so is their creator.

There it is. Follow the rules and be embraced in HIS love or ignore HIM and burn for all time.

Yes, there it is! Morality for the religious zealot is all about trying to discern the will of a violent, capricious God and tremble in fear of his terrible wrath.......which has nothing to do with what is right and wrong! Real morality comes from following ethical guidelines that are checked against the consequences of following them, so that they can be refined and improved.........personally, I would rather burn, even if we were living in a hell created by the wicked god that you believe in!

WIP · February 5, 2009

Since this is part of a pattern, I'll post this here instead of starting a whole new thread for the next scandal:

Anger as Pope names controversial bishop

Pope Benedict has promoted to bishop an ultra-conservative Austrian clergyman who called Hurricane Katrina "God's punishment" and condemned the Harry Potter books for "spreading satanism".

After the ceremony, maybe either one of them can explain why the hurricane destroyed churches, hospitals, old age homes, schools, and spared Gay Central....otherwise known as the French Quarter!

Mr.Canada · February 5, 2009

Adam and Eve have nothing to do with human origins. They are a myth....and so is their creator.

Wow, that was deep. Of coarse you can prove that God doesn't exist. Can you please provide a cite that the CBC decided that God doesn't exist please. Ok, ok , I'll settle for a Toronto Star article proving once and for all with the great proof that the religions of the world are false and God is not real and we should instead become sodomites as WIP has done.

The first part is utter foolishness that I will not bother with. You defending murderers and thieves and saying it's natural for them and they should be let go as they have the "murderer gene" or "thief gene" and...oh yes the "homosexual gene" where are these genes located?

Yes, there it is! Morality for the religious zealot is all about trying to discern the will of a violent, capricious God and tremble in fear of his terrible wrath.......which has nothing to do with what is right and wrong! Real morality comes from following ethical guidelines that are checked against the consequences of following them, so that they can be refined and improved.........personally, I would rather burn, even if we were living in a hell created by the wicked god that you believe in!

God gives everyone a choice. A choice whether to follow His teachings and be granted everlasting life or to disobey Him and burn in Hell or rot in purgatory. He is very clear on both. Don't be upset that you want to do only what feels good to you and you feel that being a Christian is too much work. That you decided to choose sodomy over marriage. That you chose homosexual relations over the Sacraments. That you chose abortion over life.

I cannot decide your fate, that is for God to decide. When Judgment Day comes you will not be able to claim ignorance and you need to become comfortable with your choice.

May the Lord have mercy on your Soul.

ToadBrother · February 5, 2009

I don't know any as the people I know are faithful Catholics. I don't hang out with grocery cart Catholics.

In other words, you can't. Formal excommunications are pretty damned rare. Even the priests who sodomized little boys weren't excommunicated, so your claim that a Catholic supporting homosexual marriages is going to be excommunicated is pure rubbish. Once again, it's demonstrated just how little you know about your religion.

What kind of Catholics do you hang around?

DogOnPorch · February 5, 2009

What kind of Catholics do you hang around?

This kind?

--------------------------------------

Arrrggh...my f@#%& balls!

---Paulie Gaultieri: The Sopranos

BigAl · February 5, 2009

Funny cause I hang out with all Catholics becuase we are all brothers and sisters. Jesus taught me that one. He also taught me a little things about being judged. He taught about the meek. A lot of great stuff.

Good man. JC would be disheartened to say the least if he were to show up tomorrow and take a look around at how perverted his teachings had become. I have more faith in my own morality to lead me to Heaven (if that's where we're headed) than in subverting my own judgment in favour of an organization that promotes hate and bigotry.

WIP · February 5, 2009

Wow, that was deep. Of coarse you can prove that God doesn't exist. Can you please provide a cite that the CBC decided that God doesn't exist please. Ok, ok , I'll settle for a Toronto Star article proving once and for all with the great proof that the religions of the world are false and God is not real and we should instead become sodomites as WIP has done.

Right! So sodomites means everyone who doesn't believe your bullcrap. Personally, I could care less what your god beliefs are, but you insist on imposing your mythology on the rest of the world through your church.

It's not my burden to prove things that you don't want to accept. You're the one making the claim that there is a god, and I am obligated to genuflect to your god, so the burden of proof is on you! For myself, the simple fact that there are thousands of religions, as you note above, is all the proof I need that this is just based on subjective notions, and not anything real....otherwise, the real god, whatever it is, could inform the whole world about its existence with something more compelling than dusty old books written in languages that are no longer used today!

The first part is utter foolishness that I will not bother with. You defending murderers and thieves and saying it's natural for them and they should be let go as they have the "murderer gene" or "thief gene" and...oh yes the "homosexual gene" where are these genes located?

There are books and online articles by scientists written to give the general public some understanding of genetics, and you obviously haven't read any of them since you think that there are specific single genes that cause specific genetic traits and disorders. If you had at least read that wikipedia article, you would have had some understanding of how many physical factors may be involved that can influence personality and psychological behaviour. Don't bother asking the question if you're not willing to learn even a little about the subject!

But who's defending murderers anyway, or defending pedophiles for that matter in this article by Patricia Churchland about a clinical report of a middleaged man who started developing a sexual attraction to girls. A brain scan revealed a tumor invading the septum and hypothalmus - regions known to regulate sexual behaviour. After the tumor was removed, his sexual behaviour returned to normal, demonstrating an obvious physical link to his sudden lapse into deviant sexual interests and behaviour.

So, what level of culpability did this man have for the crimes he committed during that time? As with Charles Whitman, he knew he was not thinking and acting in an acceptable manner, but his higher order, executive area of the brain was not able to overrule the limbic brain areas that provide our primal urges and emotions, as needed to function in an orderly society. But, after the tumor was removed, and his sexual attractions returned to normal, is he still a pedophile?

Obviously we have to have laws and rules to maintain a healthy society, but you and all of the primitive, fundamentalist religious fanatics want to maintain the myth that there is a ghost in the machine -- an immaterial mind that controls our physical bodies, but somehow is completely free from that causal chain of events that affect the body. Your religion won't let go of this primitive concept of mind mainly because it is necessary to absolve your god from blame for the evil that men do in this world. As long as people believe they have total, 100% free will, then a case can be framed that they are condemned to hell by their own sin. If the modern view has to be accepted, then your god has no standing to condemn a person for the sins they have committed during their lives on earth.

There is also ample evidence to indicate that psychopathic, even sexual psychopathic personality disorders are traits which are encouraged in violent, dysfunctional societies, precisely because a person with a lack of emotional attachment can deal with traumatic experiences better than normal people:

Psychopathy involves poor emotional intelligence, the lack of conscience, and an inability to feel attached to people except in terms of their value as a source of stimulation or new possessions. There are many expressions and forms of psychopathy. For instance, a sexual psychopath is one form of a psychopath.

There is a significant amount of evidence to suggest that:

* there may be a genetic influence that creates a psychopathic personality

* adult psychopaths do not benefit from traditional counseling therapy and may in fact offend again and sooner because of it

* the brain of a psychopath may function and process information differently from those of non-psychopaths

* less intelligent psychopaths end up in prisons (highly intelligent psychopaths can run companies)

* psychopathic behavior may have once had a strong genetic "survival of the species" value

* psychopathic personalities are much more common than most of us realize

http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/P...Personality.htm

That you decided to choose sodomy over marriage.

You stupid bastard! I've told you at least once before that I have been married for 21 years and have children! I recall you mentioning that you are 33 years old, married and have children; is your brain so full of mush that you can't keep track of such simple basic details?

That you chose homosexual relations over the Sacraments.

Is defending and speaking out against persecution of homosexuals choosing homosexual relations in your twisted, warped little world? Obviously, I don't want your meaningless sacrements.

That you chose abortion over life.

My wife has never had an abortion! Did I say otherwise?

I cannot decide your fate, that is for God to decide. When Judgment Day comes you will not be able to claim ignorance and you need to become comfortable with your choice.

Yes I am comfortable with my choice. Are you comfortable that you have rejected Allah, and your fate may be to burn in the Muslim version of hell -- which is described as at least as bad as the Christian version.....make sure you bet on the right god before you enter the afterlife!

May the Lord have mercy on your Soul.

A very stupid, meaningless phrase when combined with your other observations about your god.

GostHacked · February 5, 2009

May the Lord have mercy on your Soul.

That is only if he really exists.

guyser · February 5, 2009

That is only if he really exists.

...dont you mean She?

She's black too.

Edited February 5, 2009 by guyser

jdobbin · February 5, 2009

...dont you mean She?
She's black too.

And in a wheelchair?

Oleg Bach · February 5, 2009

And in a wheelchair?

God is a lesbian black woman stricken by palsy who sits in a throne the size of the sun...and just before she gets her period - the earth quakes and millions die...The only purpose for creating human beings was as an object of abuse - you know...If you were a god you would make some real nasty disloyal dogs that you could kick just to get your yah yahs out! <_<

guyser · February 5, 2009

And in a wheelchair?

Dont think any god needs a wheelchair. She just says 'poof' and the legs work again. I mean , if you can part a sea....

jdobbin · February 5, 2009

Dont think any god needs a wheelchair.

Maybe God doesn't darn well feel like walking.

Oleg Bach · February 5, 2009

Maybe God doesn't darn well feel like walking.

He or she or it does not feel like walking or talking for that matter - I asked him sorry IT....and he never got back to me on some matters.. :unsure: One thing I like about God as you can have a conversation and he never talks back...unless you are some former American President and you hear voices...

scorpio · February 6, 2009

People are NOT born homosexual. There is no such thing as a gay gene. If we go down that road then thieves and murderers will be claiming they are born like that.
Second, marriage is between man and woman only. God made Adam and Eve. He did not make Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve.

In case you don't know the Church teaching on homosexuality, here it is:

SOURCE

SOURCE

The Church teachings are also clear on abortion. For Catholics there is no choice. You must oppose both of these terrible acts.

There it is. Follow the rules and be embraced in HIS love or ignore HIM and burn for all time.

And Jesus said what about homosexuality??

charter.rights · February 6, 2009

God is a lesbian black woman stricken by palsy who sits in a throne the size of the sun...and just before she gets her period - the earth quakes and millions die...The only purpose for creating human beings was as an object of abuse - you know...If you were a god you would make some real nasty disloyal dogs that you could kick just to get your yah yahs out!

If we believe the Bible then God is all of them, including but not limited to murderers, rapists, sodomists, pedophiles, adulterers, etc. The unjust, the filthy....

Revelation 22:11-13

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

CANADIEN · February 8, 2009

Now "Bishop" Williamson is "willing" to "correct himself" if is "satisfied" by the evidence.(source)

The evidence is there. he has refused to acknowledge it before. He'll find a way to do it again.

ToadBrother · February 8, 2009

Now "Bishop" Williamson is "willing" to "correct himself" if is "satisfied" by the evidence.(source)
The evidence is there. he has refused to acknowledge it before. He'll find a way to do it again.

Well, it looks like some high-ranking clergy are beginning to call for a reversal of Williamson's "rehabilitation".

CANADIEN · February 8, 2009

Well, it looks like some high-ranking clergy are beginning to call for a reversal of Williamson's "rehabilitation".

Amen to that.

WIP · February 8, 2009

Well, it looks like some high-ranking clergy are beginning to call for a reversal of Williamson's "rehabilitation".

And what are they going to do about this one:

Pope Benedict has promoted to bishop an ultra-conservative Austrian clergyman who called Hurricane Katrina "God's punishment" and condemned the Harry Potter books for "spreading satanism".

The appointment, which was confirmed by the Vatican at the weekend, comes days after the Pope was criticised for his rehabilitation of a bishop who denies the Holocaust.

Gerhard Maria Wagner, 54, is to become auxiliary bishop in the Austrian city of Linz, where he is viewed as a controversial figure by churchgoers and clergy alike. In 2005, he wrote in a parish newsletter that Hurricane Katrina was an act of "divine retribution" for the sins of a sexually permissive society.

He said it was worth considering whether environmental catastrophes should not be seen as a result of "spiritual environmental pollution" - a type of "divine retribution" for New Orleans' relaxed attitude towards sexual promiscuity and homosexuality.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/0...austrian-bishop