Layton/NDP plan to vote against budget no matter what

Progressive Tory · January 22, 2009

So what's that number? 85% of 18%?

What difference does that make? We're talking about Mr. Layton's integrity and sticking to his beliefs. He doesn't trust Harper and nothing the man has done since this crisis, has changed that view.

Jack Layton is an extremely intelligent and caring man. He doesn't make decisions lightly. When the PCs were swallowed up by the Alliance/Reform and I had nowhere to go, I read that Flora MacDonald was now voting NDP. I've always admired her so did the same.

When I say the NDP are too far left for me, I don't mean in their commitment to human rights or protection of good union jobs. I also admire their non-support of the War. I too support the troops, by wanting to bring them home. Only their fierce opposition to corporate Canada leaves me lukewarm. As a Red Tory I know that we need Corporations. That is the only point that now has me voting Liberal. Iggy is a Red Tory and as such can promote industry without attacking unions.

Mr.Canada · January 22, 2009

What difference does that make? We're talking about Mr. Layton's integrity and sticking to his beliefs. He doesn't trust Harper and nothing the man has done since this crisis, has changed that view.
Jack Layton is an extremely intelligent and caring man. He doesn't make decisions lightly. When the PCs were swallowed up by the Alliance/Reform and I had nowhere to go, I read that Flora MacDonald was now voting NDP. I've always admired her so did the same.

When I say the NDP are too far left for me, I don't mean in their commitment to human rights or protection of good union jobs. I also admire their non-support of the War. I too support the troops, by wanting to bring them home. Only their fierce opposition to corporate Canada leaves me lukewarm. As a Red Tory I know that we need Corporations. That is the only point that now has me voting Liberal. Iggy is a Red Tory and as such can promote industry without attacking unions.

The NDP and Jack Layton are miles away from a Red Tory. Ignatieff is a Red Tory. Every major party will protect human rights. You need to really do some soul searching and find out where you really are. As you shifted from the Tories, to the NDP and now to the Liberals, you seem confused. No one party will ever meet all your needs just most of them.

Wild Bill · January 22, 2009

Its not only about the budget for Mr. Layton. its about confidence in the government on many levels. He does not have any confidence in the Prime Minister.

Tit for tat! How many Canadians have any confidence in Jack?

I mean, wouldn't the number of votes each received reflect that?

Wild Bill · January 22, 2009

Then the are the ones who didn't vote NDP, who wouldn't vote NDP, who actually think the same thing.
Sometimes 'non-confidence' means 'we don't care for this couple of items'. Sometimes it means 'My God! I can't work with this snake!'

And sometimes the problem is that the other choices seem to be worse snakes, or perhaps more accurately, 'snakier"!

We Canadians rarely get inspiring choices. It's our lot to only get to choose who smells the least!

Polls still show that despite the rabid hatred of the left mainstream Canada still is behind Harper, even if they don't see him as a saint.

It's not enough to smirch your opponent. You also have to give people a reason why your choice is better!

It could be worse. We could have proportional representation. With a 'pizza parliament' we would have a multitude of parties. The smaller ones would be able to wield disproportionate power by trading propping up a minority power for having portions of their own agenda enacted.

Forever more it would be the 'tyranny of the minority'. If you are of the left this probably would seem attractive. You wouldn't have to worry about achieving high levels of popular support.

85RZ500 · January 22, 2009

What difference does that make? We're talking about Mr. Layton's integrity and sticking to his beliefs. He doesn't trust Harper and nothing the man has done since this crisis, has changed that view.
Jack Layton is an extremely intelligent and caring man. He doesn't make decisions lightly. When the PCs were swallowed up by the Alliance/Reform and I had nowhere to go, I read that Flora MacDonald was now voting NDP. I've always admired her so did the same.

Yep, he sure is a piece of work. He and his wife got caught living in subsidized housing. He has used private health care while expousing the opposite. He forced his people to vote his way when it was a free vote. And kicked Bev Desjalaise out of the party when she refused to vote his way.

LOL, PT your credibility just hit the dumpster,

Progressive Tory · January 22, 2009

The NDP and Jack Layton are miles away from a Red Tory. Ignatieff is a Red Tory. Every major party will protect human rights. You need to really do some soul searching and find out where you really are. As you shifted from the Tories, to the NDP and now to the Liberals, you seem confused. No one party will ever meet all your needs just most of them.

I'm very pragmatic when it comes to politics. During an election campaign, I will work hard for my choice of MP or Party, but when the election is over I look to the entire 308 elected MPs to steer this country in the right direction.

I admire many politicians, but follow none blindly. I respect the integrity of Jack Layton, the passion of Stephane Dion and the vision of Elizasbeth May. I always tried to find some good in Stephen Harper but his last campaign to save his job, has diminished any hope of his redeeming himself. I know he's a good family man and admired the fact that at annual press gatherings he included the children and spouses. That speaks volumes. It's unfortunate he had to resort to dirty politics.

However, off the top of my head; the politicians who have earned my respect, have been Preston Manning, Ed Broadbent, Jean Chretien, Pat Martin, Tommy Douglas, Pierre Trudeau, John Diefenbaker, Lester Pearson, Jack Layton, Jim Prentice, Martha Hall Finlay, Bob Rae, Rhona Ambrose, Brad Trost, Bill Casey and of course, recently; my man Iggy. I know if I give it some thought there will be others. All Canadians WE should be proud of. I can be as partisan as the next guy but try to never blinded by partisanship.

You may not agree with my choices, but I base them on a variety of things. I don't agree with the politics or beliefs of some, but admire their dedication to those beliefs.

But you're right. No one party will ever meet all my needs. That's why we have opposition to make sure they at least try. But if you're discussing my 'want's and not my 'needs', that may be different. I stand by my admiration for Jack Layton the man.

Progressive Tory · January 22, 2009

Tit for tat! How many Canadians have any confidence in Jack?
I mean, wouldn't the number of votes each received reflect that?

There was no non-confidence vote on the table for Jack Layton.

Progressive Tory · January 22, 2009

Yep, he sure is a piece of work. He and his wife got caught living in subsidized housing. He has used private health care while expousing the opposite. He forced his people to vote his way when it was a free vote. And kicked Bev Desjalaise out of the party when she refused to vote his way.
LOL, PT your credibility just hit the dumpster,

Yep. Harper and his cronies got caught trying to use fraudulent receipts and forged documents to defraud taxpayers in the "In and Out" scandal. He has been taking donations from private health care companies while pretending to uphold public healthcare. He forces his people to vote with him on...well...everything. He kicked Bill Casey out of the Party for daring to side with his constituents who didn't support the budget. My integrity is fine thank you. Still like Jackie boy. Stevie, not so much.

sharkman · January 22, 2009

There was no non-confidence vote on the table for Jack Layton.

If you are referring to the attempt to hi-jack power by the coalition, the non-confidence vote on the table for Harper was not a reflection of voter support whatsoever. Actually, it made most Canadians quite mad, hence it will not be carried out, even Iggy is too smart for this, but apparently not Layton.

Progressive Tory · January 22, 2009

If you are referring to the attempt to hi-jack power by the coalition, the non-confidence vote on the table for Harper was not a reflection of voter support whatsoever. Actually, it made most Canadians quite mad, hence it will not be carried out, even Iggy is too smart for this, but apparently not Layton.

Yes, I was referring to the recent non-confidence vote against Stephen Harper. It was not unlike Harper's attempt to hi-jack power by coalition in 2004, when he united with Duceppe and Layton to overturn the election of Paul Martin, paving the way for coalitions. The only difference is that the recent Coalition doesn't include the Bloc, like his; and this one might actually work. But he broke ground and I thank Stephen Harper for that.

I will bring that up everytime someone suggests that the recent coalition was illegal, unethical or unfounded. Just history repeating itself, by improving itself.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Progressive Tory

sharkman · January 22, 2009

Keep bringing it up then, but perhaps you should re-read it, your facts are wrong on at least two counts.

Progressive Tory · January 22, 2009

Keep bringing it up then, but perhaps you should re-read it, your facts are wrong on at least two counts.

Do tell. Where was I wrong?

Jean_Poutine · January 23, 2009

I said a while ago that I think Layton's acting like an idiot and he'll pay a price for it. It's simply stating the obvious really, but if you want proof, look at this Toronto Star article and the reactions to it:

http://www.thestar.com/article/573610

There are 129 comments about it, and almost all are against what Layton is doing. Moreover, the vast majority of the votes on comments are in agreement with comments made against Layton or in disagreement with comments supporting the NDP/coalition.

The Toronto Star is hardly conservative, and it's his home town paper.

Me thinks that if Layton keeps going down this path, he'll be looking for a new job after the next election.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Jean_Poutine

Progressive Tory · January 23, 2009

I said a while ago that I think Layton's acting like an idiot and he'll pay a price for it. It's simply stating the obvious really, but if you want proof, look at this Toronto Star article and the reactions to it:
http://www.thestar.com/article/573610

There are 129 comments about it, and almost all are against what Layton is doing. Moreover, the vast majority of the votes on comments are in agreement with comments made against Layton or in disagreement with comments supporting the NDP/coalition.

The Toronto Star is hardly conservative, and it's his home town paper.

Me thinks that if Layton keeps going down this path, he'll be looking for a new job after the next election.

Maybe Jack Layton and Stephen Harper will be able to swap stories on the unemployment line. In many ways I think Layton may have done all he can do as Leader of the NDP. They too need a fresh face. Yes he should definitely be paying attention to public opinion, but the report regarding the true state of our economy which came out just after this, may change a few minds. We will be in a massive deficit BEFORE any stimulus package. I too criticized Layton for not waiting to see what was in the budget, but then realized that it was more about trust and these latest figures have confirmed that this government cannot be trusted.

How can we consider any tax cuts now, when we will have a 46 billion dollar deficit WITHOUT THEM!

I still have a great deal of respect for Mr. Layton. Besides, as I said before, the Cons are running ads asking Canadians to encourage MPs to support the budget without seeing it!

Mr.Canada · January 23, 2009

Maybe Jack Layton and Stephen Harper will be able to swap stories on the unemployment line. In many ways I think Layton may have done all he can do as Leader of the NDP. They too need a fresh face. Yes he should definitely be paying attention to public opinion, but the report regarding the true state of our economy which came out just after this, may change a few minds. We will be in a massive deficit BEFORE any stimulus package. I too criticized Layton for not waiting to see what was in the budget, but then realized that it was more about trust and these latest figures have confirmed that this government cannot be trusted.
How can we consider any tax cuts now, when we will have a 46 billion dollar deficit WITHOUT THEM!

I still have a great deal of respect for Mr. Layton. Besides, as I said before, the Cons are running ads asking Canadians to encourage MPs to support the budget without seeing it!

If you think Canadians will be ok with waiting a at least 8 weeks for a new budget in this time of economic hardship for the stimulus you're crazy. Ignatieff would get killed in the next election and he knows it. Which is why he'll be supporting it. He's been playing it pretty smart in the media though lately, really by not playing it but it's worked out for him thus far. Canadians want action not pettiness from the opposition.

85RZ500 · January 23, 2009

Yep, he still waves the coalition around and has stated he and his party would reinstate Khadr into Canadian society, both immensely unpopular. Keep quiet "Stephen", if Ignatief carry's on like this, you'll have nothing to worry about.

Edited January 23, 2009 by 85RZ500

Argus · January 23, 2009

On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, if I were Mr. Layton, I don't think I'd trust the Prime Minister either.

And why would Harper trust Layton? For that matter, why would anyone trust Layton?

And as I've posted before, Layton absolutely despises Harper, to the point of being obsessed.

Smallc · January 24, 2009

And why would Harper trust Layton?

What does that have to do with anything? This is about Layton's confidence in the government, not the other way around.

Progressive Tory · January 24, 2009

If you think Canadians will be ok with waiting a at least 8 weeks for a new budget in this time of economic hardship for the stimulus you're crazy. Ignatieff would get killed in the next election and he knows it. Which is why he'll be supporting it. He's been playing it pretty smart in the media though lately, really by not playing it but it's worked out for him thus far. Canadians want action not pettiness from the opposition.

I belong to a Coalition support group and get constant updates. Word is that that the NDP/Liberal Coalition already have a tentative budget inked and onboard helping out is Mr. Drummond, well known and well respected economist. Ralph Goodale is also doing a lot of work behind the scenes. Won't take 8 weeks. However, supporters of an election if the government falls, will have to wait roughly 2-3 months for any action on the economy.

An Iggy quote from my email this morning sums it up perfectly. He infers that "There may not necessarily be a coalition, but that there could be a coalition if necessary." From that I assume that if the GG asks him to form a government, he will do it.

scribblet · January 24, 2009

And why would Harper trust Layton? For that matter, why would anyone trust Layton?
And as I've posted before, Layton absolutely despises Harper, to the point of being obsessed.

Much like the anti Harper obsession on here, it reminds of the Bush Derangement Syndrome, only this is Harper Derangement Syndrome LOL

Layton is simply out to obstruct legislation any way he can, he is mad for power or just plain mad. Why would anyone respect a leader who flat out says he will vote against the budget no matter what's in it, I think Layton has lost his moral compass.

fellowtraveller · January 24, 2009

We're talking about Mr. Layton's integrity

What a laugh.

Layton clings to the dead coaltion because he knows that:

a) The NDP remian a party of little consequence in national politics. In spite of Adscam and the demise of the Liberals, Canadians have once again refused to endorse him or his policies in any significant way. Nothing will change in that regard in future elections either. which means:

B ) the coalition remiansd his one and only opportunity to remian even vaguely relevant and gain some media attention. This is as close to power as he'll ever get, and he knows it.

Ultimately, Laytion is a political slut of the first rank, same as the other leaders. he demonstrated that amply years ago by propping up a thoroughly corrupt and discredited Liberal minority under Paul Martin. He paid the price at the next election, and he'll pay again at next one too, which may be sooner than he had hoped.

The next eelcetion will be Tories vs The Coaltion, and Jack will have screwed himself out of the brand recognition the Party worked so hard to attain. Well played, sir!

The coalition was his only shot at power, and he must be distraught at watching it disappear,,,,,many NDP voters will move to the Liberals in acknowledgement that they are led by a greedy clown.

Edited January 24, 2009 by fellowtraveller

Progressive Tory · January 24, 2009

Much like the anti Harper obsession on here, it reminds of the Bush Derangement Syndrome, only this is Harper Derangement Syndrome LOL
Layton is simply out to obstruct legislation any way he can, he is mad for power or just plain mad. Why would anyone respect a leader who flat out says he will vote against the budget no matter what's in it, I think Layton has lost his moral compass.

Harper was simply out to obstruct a non-confidence vote any way he could, even if it meant alienating Quebec forever. He is mad for power or just plain mad. Why would anyone respect a leader who flat out encourages Canadians to ask their MPs to vote for the budget, no matter what's in it. Clearly Harper has lost his moral compass, unless of course that compass is Brian Mulroney.

Mr.Canada · January 24, 2009

I've said this many times here and elsewhere. I sincerely hope that Ignatieff is stupid enough to vote against the Tories then to hopefully form a Coalition with the Separatist Bloc. They will be linked to be allies of separatism and the enemy of a federalist Canada. The Liberals will be destroyed for at least a generation and the Tories will cruise to a massive majority.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Mr.Canada

Progressive Tory · January 24, 2009

I've said this many times here and elsewhere. I sincerely hope that Ignatieff is stupid enough to vote against the Tories then to hopefully form a Coalition with the Separatist Bloc. They will be linked to be allies of separatism and the enemy of a federalist Canada. The Liberals will be destroyed for at least a generation and the Tories will cruise to a massive majority.

What are you smoking? When Harper formed his coalition with the 'separatist Bloc' in 2004, nobody cruised into a massive majority. We forgave him, though he had to unite the right and eliminate vote splitting just to get a minority. Ironically, he's also united the left, so even that's now out of his grasp. He let his party down. He should be ashamed.

Mr.Canada · January 24, 2009

What are you smoking? When Harper formed his coalition with the 'separatist Bloc' in 2004, nobody cruised into a massive majority. We forgave him, though he had to unite the right and eliminate vote splitting just to get a minority. Ironically, he's also united the left, so even that's now out of his grasp. He let his party down. He should be ashamed.

LOL, Canadians would rather have an election then let the Bloc lead the entire country. Harper never let the Bloc lead the country like Layton and Ignatieff are ready to do. Say they take the PMO in a CoupScam, when it falls apart and we go to an election and the Tories win a majority will you come back and apologize to me and say I was right?