Harper=Boring Anglo - Ignatieff=Sophisticated Foreigner

[madmax]

Harper's making no new friends in the west with his plan to spend $3 billion on search-and-rescue planes made in Italy rather than Calgary and Victoria:

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Victoria...9930/story.html

Let's hope the Liberals take note of this latest example of Harper stupidity.

Both the LPC and CPC believe in purchasing outside of Canada. They purchase inside of Canada when dragged kicking and screaming even if it can be done more affordably and created the added benefit of jobs. They preferred outside purchasing because it reinforces their globalization beliefs and it also keeps them out of trouble without looking like they are favouring one part of Canada or one company who employs in Canada over another one.

Fact is, these two guys are both shitheads. Iggy would reverse this if there is political capital in doing so. But for no other reason.

He is an intellectual...remember

[Smallc]

Can Iggnatief speak French? If he can't he cannot be PM.

Oh no, why didn't someone bring this up sooner? Of course he can.

[madmax]

Can Iggnatief speak French? If he can't he cannot be PM.

[Progressive Tory]

Oh no, why didn't someone bring this up sooner? Of course he can.

Ignatieff's French is said to be impeccable and he is also fluent in Russian.

[Mr.Canada]

Ignatieff's French is said to be impeccable and he is also fluent in Russian.

I was just asking a question, there's no need for the constant smart assed remarks. Is there anyone mature on this board or is it full of unemployed urban protesters?

You don't agree with my politics? That's fine, you don't have to but that doesn't give you guys the right to personally attack and slag me every chance you get, grow up.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Wild Bill]

No, that might be what you think it means, but it doesn't mean that. Just because there are different language groups in Canada doesn't mean that we should be divided along such a line....or any line for that matter.

It's funny how whenever someone talks about how a group should stay together the idea always seems to come from those favoured by the status quo.

This wouldn't be so bad if at the same time the complaints of those unhappy were at least being examined for validity and perhaps even some redress, instead of being simply ignored as unsubstantiated 'grumbling'.

I would submit that the Liberal Party has ignored western Canada for generations. It paid political dividends in votes in some areas of the country but there was a price paid in others. Part of that price was a loss of a sense of participation and federal unity.

This has grown so acute that it might take generations before the Liberal Party could ever again be successful in the West. Certainly it would take a great deal of time and effort to make any sort of headway. For this reason, the Liberals are very unlikely to even make an effort. They have more immediate challenges and know from years of experience that if they can stay strong in Quebec, Ontario, the Maritimes and perhaps B.C they can form majority governments.

Beyond that they have no need to care! I can't see the Liberals ever becoming champions of the West for at least a few decades, maybe longer. it's just cold hearted games theory.

[Progressive Tory]

It's funny how whenever someone talks about how a group should stay together the idea always seems to come from those favoured by the status quo.

This wouldn't be so bad if at the same time the complaints of those unhappy were at least being examined for validity and perhaps even some redress, instead of being simply ignored as unsubstantiated 'grumbling'.

I would submit that the Liberal Party has ignored western Canada for generations. It paid political dividends in votes in some areas of the country but there was a price paid in others. Part of that price was a loss of a sense of participation and federal unity.

This has grown so acute that it might take generations before the Liberal Party could ever again be successful in the West. Certainly it would take a great deal of time and effort to make any sort of headway. For this reason, the Liberals are very unlikely to even make an effort. They have more immediate challenges and know from years of experience that if they can stay strong in Quebec, Ontario, the Maritimes and perhaps B.C they can form majority governments.

Beyond that they have no need to care! I can't see the Liberals ever becoming champions of the West for at least a few decades, maybe longer. it's just cold hearted games theory.

It's not the Liberals' job to be 'champions of the west', if it excludes the East, North and South. If Harper had run a campaign of hatred against Alberta, I would be just as appalled. Fortunately, in Canada, we don't elect Prime Ministers; only members of Parliament and all 143 elected Conservative members of Parliament will still have their jobs in a coaliton gov't.; though that number could be greatly reduced if an election is called and vote splitting is off the table.

I think Ignatieff best represents all Canadians.

[Mr.Canada]

It's not the Liberals' job to be 'champions of the west', if it excludes the East, North and South. If Harper had run a campaign of hatred against Alberta, I would be just as appalled. Fortunately, in Canada, we don't elect Prime Ministers; only members of Parliament and all 143 elected Conservative members of Parliament will still have their jobs in a coaliton gov't.; though that number could be greatly reduced if an election is called and vote splitting is off the table.

I think Ignatieff best represents all Canadians.

Even though he's barely been in the country for the past 30 years?

The Liberal leadership trough is empty indeed if they need to pluck academics from the US who lost interest in Canada years ago, LOL.

[Progressive Tory]

Even though he's barely been in the country for the past 30 years?

The Liberal leadership trough is empty indeed if they need to pluck academics from the US who lost interest in Canada years ago, LOL.

So you have a taped interview with Mr. Ignatieff that states he'd lost interest in Canada? Dan Acroyd has lived in the US most of his life but promotes Canada every chance he gets. He's from here, Kingston; and even gave his daughter that name. You don't have to live here to love it, or have a vested interest. Canadian spirit has no borders.

We should be thrilled that we were able to find such a brilliant man to lead us in trouble times.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Even though he's barely been in the country for the past 30 years?

The Liberal leadership trough is empty indeed if they need to pluck academics from the US who lost interest in Canada years ago, LOL.

In your opinion. Please keep in mind that Iggy pursued academics first and then moved into private ventures. Now he challenges himself with public servie after having seen and worked in other places in this world. Knowing this, you should understand that he is educated well, to the point of being able to teach at a post secondary level. He has lived and worked outside of Canada so he has experienced life on a broader scale than many folks, and then elected to return to Canada. If this is such a bad place, why come back? Why apply himself to public service in a nation that he does not have to live in?

Mr. Canada, in my opinion you have missed the boat on this. He is a good candidate for office, more qualified than Harper.

[Keepitsimple]

Are people surprised that Ignatieff is keeping such a low profile at a time that he should be front and center every day? They shouldn't be. The guy is famous for putting his foot in his mouth. Last week, he openly and totally agreed with the Government's position on Israel/Hamas. While it was refreshing to hear, I'm sure the backroom boys were fuming as he basically gave Harper a free pass - although he did take an opportunity to pander to the Jewish vote. As is often the case, the Liberal media buried most of his statements - the Star reported it under an unrelated headline and I couldn't find it at all in the Globe - here's the release by CP.

Ignatieff says Israel must be allowed to defend itself from Hamas attacks

By The Canadian Press

HALIFAX, N.S. - Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff says Israel is justified in taking military action to defend itself against attacks by Hamas from the Gaza Strip.

"Canada has to support the right of a democratic country to defend itself," he told reporters in Halifax on Thursday after speaking to a forum of business leaders on the economy.

"Israel has been attacked from Gaza, not just last year, but for almost 10 years. They evacuated from Gaza so there is no occupation in Gaza."

Earlier this week, Canada condemned Palestinian fighters for endangering the lives of civilians in the Gaza Strip.

Peter Kent, the newly minted minister of state for Foreign Affairs, blamed the Palestinians' duly elected government in Gaza for compromising the safety and welfare of its own civilians.

"The position of the government of Canada is that Hamas bears the burden of responsibility for the deepening humanitarian tragedy," Kent said.

"Until they commit to a permanent ceasefire - a truly permanent ceasefire, a durable ceasefire - and don't use it as a break to re-arm and resume rocketing, the fighting will go on."

Ignatieff also said Hamas shoulders the blame.

"Hamas is a terrorist organization and Canada can't touch Hamas with a 10-foot pole," he said. "Hamas is to blame for organizing and instigating these rocket attacks and then for sheltering among civilian populations."

Ignatieff said Canada must do whatever it can to get humanitarian and medical relief into Gaza when there is a ceasefire, but rocket attacks on Israel by Hamas must stop first.

Canada should also continue to work towards a lasting solution to the conflict, he said.

"Ultimately this thing has to end with an Israel that is recognized, is safe and secure . . . and living side-by-side in peace with a Palestinian state," Ignatieff said.

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090108/.../ignatieff_gaza

Edited January 12, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I agree with him and the government on this issue.

[jdobbin]

Are people surprised that Ignatieff is keeping such a low profile at a time that he should be front and center every day? They shouldn't be.

One forgets how much behind the scenes was being done to bring Ignatieff people into the leadership office.

http://www.thehilltimes.ca/members/login.p...angelo/&c=2

Michael Ignatieff, the new leader of the Liberal Party, has started to build his own organization within the party and is counting on some old and new names.Michael Ignatieff, the new leader of the Liberal Party, has started to build his own organization within the party and is counting on some old and new names.

It is the major changes that are going to be needed if Liberals are to make do with less money this year and still have an impact.

The guy is famous for putting his foot in his mouth. Last week, he openly and totally agreed with the Government's position on Israel/Hamas.

I'd say Harper should probably consider being quiet from time to time. He is often his own worst enemy.

The Liberal position is as nuanced as the Tory one. Hardline in most of Canada, softline in Quebec. We have seen that with the Kent/Cannon dynamic.

While it was refreshing to hear, I'm sure the backroom boys were fuming as he basically gave Harper a free pass - although he did take an opportunity to pander to the Jewish vote.

You mean he sent the Jewish community holiday cards culled from lists kept that the party believed were Jewish?

I think you'll find that Ignatieff's statement is in keeping with traditional Liberal support of Israel.

As is often the case, the Liberal media buried most of his statements - the Star reported it under an unrelated headline and I couldn't find it at all in the Globe - here's the release by CP.

Most media reported it from an omnibus interview Ignatieff gave. The top headline was not Gaza for Canadians but the budget which the Liberal leader spoke on. That was one of the lead stories in many papers.

In that same interview, he spoke on the fighting in Gaza.

What you believe was buried was in all of the newspapers mostly as their lead stories. All of them had the Ignatieff interview and all of them had the statement. Similarly, I saw the Ignatieff statement on CBC, CTV and Global during the day making the same statement.

Your attack on the "Liberal" media is just an axe to grind. Perhaps you thought the article should have been in a separate article on the front page. I'm sure then you might have said it was a media love in for Ignatieff with numerous articles all generated from the same news conference.

[Topaz]

Can Iggnatief speak French? If he can't he cannot be PM.

You don't watch C-PAC and the Commons??? Yes he speaks French.

[Topaz]

Question...WHO are the Liberal Media???? The only bias I've seen was with Duffy towards the Tories and I guess that was Duffy himself and may not have been CTV.

[Smallc]

I can't see the Liberals ever becoming champions of the West for at least a few decades, maybe longer.

What does that even mean? How can you be a "champion of the west?" The Liberals are champions of socially liberal values and somewhat fiscally conservative values in Canada. That's why I'm a member of the party. I don't want them to pander to the west or the east. I want them to govern the country based on their values. Conservative voters feel the same way about their party. It just so happen that easterners are more liberal and westerners are more conservative. It doesn't mean either party is the champion of one region or another.

[Progressive Tory]

Ignatieff has been open about his support of Israel in the conflict, and his non-support of Hamas. Why is this a problem? So do the Conservatives.

He is also supportive of the Jewish community. What I find disturbing is the fact that the Tories threatened a Jewish Day School for the disabled, with funding cancellation, if they allowed Michael Ignatieff to attend their candle lighting ceremony. Their support of Israel may not have as much meaning.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...081224/20081224

If the Conservatives think that Ignatieff is going to disagree with everything they say, just to start a fight, they may be in for a surprize. He is far too intelligent to play those games. That could be a problem for Harper, since Ignatieff may have more to offer Red Tories and small "c" conservatives, than the current Right Wing option. He is not a 'Leftie', is corporate friendly; but is also a strong supporter of women's rights and human rights. We are blessed.

[capricorn]

What I find disturbing is the fact that the Tories threatened a Jewish Day School for the disabled, with funding cancellation, if they allowed Michael Ignatieff to attend their candle lighting ceremony. Their support of Israel may not have as much meaning.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...081224/20081224

I read your link and I did not read anything about the Conservatives threatening to withdraw funding. What Georganne Burke did was wrong. To ascribe her words and actions to the entire Conservative Party is stretching it.

He is not a 'Leftie', is corporate friendly; but is also a strong supporter of women's rights and human rights. We are blessed.

The more I read your posts, the more I see you as the perfect antidote to Mister Canada. The two of you balance each other out quite well.

[blueblood]

I read your link and I did not read anything about the Conservatives threatening to withdraw funding. What Georganne Burke did was wrong. To ascribe her words and actions to the entire Conservative Party is stretching it.

The more I read your posts, the more I see you as the perfect antidote to Mister Canada. The two of you balance each other out quite well.

Yeah the double negative. Sad thing is two wrongs don't make a right.

[August1991]

This is offensive...though probably not intended as such. Why wasn't Trudeau's mother a "white girl"...or father a "white" French Canadian?

...

Obama reportedly speaks passable Bahasa (Indonesia)

I have to respond to this. Obama's mother was 19 years old when he was born. When she met his older Kenyan father, she was a well-meaning young Kansan girl, an unreconstructed liberal, and I believe that's how Obama described her.

As to Obama's bilingualism, I merely meant to say that IMV, Trudeau had far better insights into duality and its implications for society than anything I've heard from Obama. Like Kennedy (America's first Catholic), Obama at least arrives at the presidency with an understanding of what it means to view life differently. We in federal Canadian politics have been doing this for ages.

Bush_Cheney, I assume you are an American and I guess that you don't quite grasp Canadian history or politics as well as you think.

Edited January 13, 2009 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

I have to respond to this. Obama's mother was 19 years old when he was born. She was a well-meaning Kansan girl when she met his older father, an unreconstructed liberal, and I believe that's how Obama described her.

Still, your racial intonations were uneven, and unnecessary. Trudeau does not get "white" brownie points.

As to Obama's bilingualism, I merely meant to say that IMV, Trudeau had far better insights into duality and its implications for society than anything I've heard from Obama. Like Kennedy (America's first Catholic), Obama at least arrives at the presidency with an understanding of what it means to view life differently. We in federal Canadian politics have been doing this for ages.

Because he had to, by law (BNA Act and small bill of rights...i.e LANGUAGE). American presidents have no such obligation or impediment.

Bush_Cheney, I assume you are an American and I guess that you don't grasp Canadian history or politics quite as well as you think.

Of course not, but I can spot a biased opinion without such insight. I am not a big Obama supporter, but there is no need to elevate PET's record, which is quite safe. Comparisons to Americans for identity and stature is a common exercise here at MLW, and I thought you knew better. In the case of Obama's deceased mother, "white-girl from Kansas" or "black Kenyan" (as opposed to a white Kenyan?)....is dirty pool.

Edited January 13, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[August1991]

What a Macedonian thread!

I would submit that the Liberal Party has ignored western Canada for generations. It paid political dividends in votes in some areas of the country but there was a price paid in others. Part of that price was a loss of a sense of participation and federal unity.

I agree and I'm not even a Westerner.

Regionalism drives Canadian federal politics and the Liberal party has misunderstood this for too many decades. Ignatieff is just another example of its misunderstanding.

I fear that Harper's Tories are counting on a larger parliament to correct this problem.

Defer to a foreignor? What the hell? He's hardly a 'foreignor' and his time out of the country was not spent in a Turkish prison. He has been out there making a difference. Have you read his resume?

Ignatieff was abroad and he doesn't sound like an English-Canadian. Apparently, he spent time abroad cultivating an unCanadian accent.

Ignatieff's French is said to be impeccable and he is also fluent in Russian.

I have never heard Ignatieff speak Russian but his French reminds me of Victor Goldbloom. IOW, Ignatieff speaks elegant, accented French that seduces older Outremont matrons such as Lysiane Gagnon.

At least Trudeau could go vernacular in French when he had to. He was rooted somewhere. Ignatieff is rooted nowhere.

----

Once again, English Canada is about to have a leader who doesn't speak like they do. English Canadians are colonials. It's unhealthy.

Edited January 13, 2009 by August1991

[August1991]

Trudeau does not get "white" brownie points.

...

Because he had to, by law (BNA Act and small bill of rights...i.e LANGUAGE). American presidents have no such obligation or impediment.

...

I am not a big Obama supporter, but there is no need to elevate PET's record, which is quite safe. Comparisons to Americans for identity and stature is a common exercise here at MLW, and I thought you knew better. In the case of Obama's deceased mother, "white-girl from Kansas" or "black Kenyan" (as opposed to a white Kenyan?)....is dirty pool.

I don't entirely understand your response, b_c but your mention of the BNA Act is a good starting point to clarify matters.

There is no mention of God, religion or language in the US Constitution. In the BNA Act, religion and language play a prominent role.

We in Canada have explicitly recognized minorities and given them special status. Our federal system, with one province having a majority of Francophones, is designed to protect this difference. Moreover, our Constitution protects two legal systems and our federal Supreme Court explicitly ensures that three judges will come with a Civil Code background.

In short, the history of minority rights in Canada is markedly different from the US. What we practice in Canada would be called Jim Crow or Apartheid in the US. OTOH, in Canada, assimilation and integration are pejorative words. In Canada, "school bussing" would refer to the right of francophone or Catholic kids to go to a school reserved for them.

Last point? We in Canada have avoided a civil war and we have a national anthem sung in two languages.

[blueblood]

I don't entirely understand your response, b_c but your mention of the BNA Act is a good starting point to clarify matters.

There is no mention of God, religion or language in the US Constitution. In the BNA Act, religion and language play a prominent role.

We in Canada have explicitly recognized minorities and given them special status. Our federal system, with one province having a majority of Francophones, is designed to protect this difference. Moreover, our Constitution protects two legal systems and our federal Supreme Court explicitly ensures that three judges will come with a Civil Code background.

In short, the history of minority rights in Canada is markedly different from the US. What we practice in Canada would be called Jim Crow or Apartheid in the US. OTOH, in Canada, assimilation and integration are pejorative words. In Canada, "school bussing" would refer to the right of francophone or Catholic kids to go to a school reserved for them.

Last point? We in Canada have avoided a civil war and we have a national anthem sung in two languages.

Yet we live in hypocrisy and in a double standard...

[August1991]

Yet we live in hypocrisy and in a double standard...

Hypocrisy? No, we in Canada live in a civilized society.

The test of a society's civility is how the majority treats its minority. English-Canadians, I must admit, are civilized.