M.Dancer Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Here's an interesting picture for the military buffs. All these AFVs are ex T-62s or T-72s captured circa 1973. Soviet tanks...for those not up on tanks.http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4533...getty-tanks.jpg ------------------------------------------------ Your door is a jar. your window, a turnip. They must have had a lot of modifications..they look nothing like T-62s and only bare a passing resemblance to 72s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 BBC has it...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7803423.stm she didn't say that it was unintentional.. she was just saying "too bad they had to get in the way".. "Unfortunately, there are those who pay the price for what Hamas is doing.." How is that not collective punishment? Do you know what the difference is between an indiscriminate attack and a targetted attack is?Since you haven't proven they were targeted, how can you prove they were indiscriminate? You haven't proved any of the above. I asked for the targeting orders ...with barely 50 civilians killed, it seems the vast majority of strikes are targetting the military..so ummm, these won't apply. N o one is starving, Israel is allowing aid in and no one with half a brain thinks that one dairy will feed the entire pop. of the Gaza.... ill informed hyperbole. But this applies to Hamas specifically.... They have no released their intentions.. If civilian destruction was unintentional, why not say so? Chapter III: Civilian Objects Article 52: General Protection of Civilian Objects 1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2. 2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage. 3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used. Article 53 Protection of cultural objects and of places of worship without prejudice to the provisions of the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict of 14 May 1954, and of other relevant international instruments, it is prohibited: 1. to commit any acts of hostility directed against the historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples; 2. to use such objects in support of the military effort; 3. to make such objects the object of reprisals. --------------------- Civilian objects are not fair game and will be presumed to be civilian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 But this applies to Hamas specifically.... Yes, Hamas is not innocent either.. Theyve been breaking the rules over and over again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 ... Civilian objects are not fair game and will be presumed to be civilian Nope...."civilian objects" are fair game whenever in the proximity of military targets or being used as such. And to make it even less clear, the GCs were written in the age of dumb gravity bombs. The Palestinians are more fortunate than they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) They must have had a lot of modifications..they look nothing like T-62s and only bare a passing resemblance to 72s... Lots of modifications, indeed. Turret removed, armor added. The road wheels are the give-away. Notice how there are minor differences between some of them as well...field modified. -------------------------------------------- Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel. ---President Bill Clinton Edited December 31, 2008 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterDC Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Nope...."civilian objects" are fair game whenever in the proximity of military targets or being used as such. And to make it even less clear, the GCs were written in the age of dumb gravity bombs.The Palestinians are more fortunate than they think. Airstrikes on the al-Mughraga neighbourhood, a farm and a home does not equal to a military target. Chapter III: Civilian Objects Article 52: General Protection of Civilian Objects 3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 --------------------- Civilian objects are not fair game and will be presumed to be civilian This must be new to you. Civilian targets being used by belligerants are considered open season. Says so right in the GC The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Airstrikes on the al-Mughraga neighbourhood, a farm and a home does not equal to a military target. How do you know. How do you know there was any doubt? Seems like you keep grasping at straws...Hamas uses farms to launch rocket attacks, Israel attacks farms, it's really not that hard to grasp . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Airstrikes on the al-Mughraga neighbourhood, a farm and a home does not equal to a military target. Chapter III: Civilian Objects Article 52: General Protection of Civilian Objects 3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used. There is no doubt...so bombs away! Besides...the point is moot....there will be no presecution of military actions by Israel....except with more "military" actions. All is well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 M.Dancer...apparently the AFV is known as a Tiran 4/5 which are old T-54/55s (not 62/72s...same wheels) converted to Israeli purposes. The turretless ones are troop carriers. ------------------------------- Eyeless in Gaza at the mill with slaves. ---Milton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 In my opinion, Israel should drop some leaflets. Those leaflets should say; You have 48 hours to leave Gaza. No attacks on Gaza shall be permitted by the IDF for the next 48 hours. At the expiration of this time, Gaza will be bombed and shelled until no building is left standing. When the smoke clears, the rubble will be pushed into the sea and no person shall be permitted to live there ever again. Any person found in the area after the rubble is moved into the sea will be killed on sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 In my opinion, Israel should drop some leaflets. Those leaflets should say; You have 48 hours to leave Gaza. No attacks on Gaza shall be permitted by the IDF for the next 48 hours. At the expiration of this time, Gaza will be bombed and shelled until no building is left standing. When the smoke clears, the rubble will be pushed into the sea and no person shall be permitted to live there ever again. Any person found in the area after the rubble is moved into the sea will be killed on sight. That would be...errr...a tad ironic...no? --------------------------- Do I know what rhetorical means?? ---Homer Simpson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 That would be...errr...a tad ironic...no? Too bad. If you throw missiles around, you should expect a few to land close by. Live by the sword and die by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) If the Arab world is so concerned about Gaza why don't they allow those people to move to their countries? ....no they would rather they stay where they are so they can attack Israel with rockets with the Arab world blessing then when Israel retaliates the Arab world will say" look what big bad Israel is doing to the poor little old Arabs". I agree with what Jerry J. Fortin said give them 48 hours to leave then completely level Gaza to the ground! Israel is not going to put up with those people any longer. there will never be peace as long as Hamas is in existance, Israel is sending the world a powerful message "if you mess with us you are going to be wiped out". You would have thought those idiots would have learned from what Israel did to Lebanon! Edited December 31, 2008 by wulf42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 and according to international law, Israel cannot commit collective punishment. I don't get it.. So Israel is mad because the Hamas rockets are disturbing the innocent.. So in retaliation, they will air strike and kill 300 innocent Arabs.. Hmm, nope. Sorry, doesn't make sense 300 innocent Arabs? Why do you think they are innocent? Since Hamas doesn't wear uniforms they are most likely terrorists. I see you didn't read the article in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 300 innocent Arabs? Why do you think they are innocent? Since Hamas doesn't wear uniforms they are most likely terrorists. I see you didn't read the article in the OP. Exactly...Those so called innocent Arabs are Hamas or Hamas supporters, the whole area is a breeding ground for terrorists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Exactly...Those so called innocent Arabs are Hamas or Hamas supporters, the whole area is a breeding ground for terrorists! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! It's about money. No one would butter up to Hamas unless they were poor. If Israel had not been so cheap and selfish - there would be no present problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 and according to international law, Israel cannot commit collective punishment. According to intenational law they can't impose ufair trade duties....what? They aren't doing that? Exactly. Israel hasn't killed 300 "innocent" arabs...yet. So far with near 400 killed, around 350 have been Hamas....today, more good news, a senior Hamas official is now dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 In my opinion, Israel should drop some leaflets. Those leaflets should say; You have 48 hours to leave Gaza. No attacks on Gaza shall be permitted by the IDF for the next 48 hours. At the expiration of this time, Gaza will be bombed and shelled until no building is left standing. When the smoke clears, the rubble will be pushed into the sea and no person shall be permitted to live there ever again. Any person found in the area after the rubble is moved into the sea will be killed on sight. I think the map of Gaza should be redrawn...a cordone sanitaire should be established with a width equal to that of range of the qassam rockets....then it should be mined and salted so no one can claim that the Israelis have seized the land to occupy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 More good news!!! Hamas is going to pay a huge price for their stupidity, taking on Israel not smart......lol http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/01/...gaza/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Well sorry to burst your bubble but those were all CIVILIAN buildings therefore, it is a form of collective punishment. Sorry, sunshine, but there's no such thing as a civilian building if it's being used for military purposes. If Hamas sets up shop in the basement of a hospital then, according to international law the Israelis are permitted to bomb the building to smithereens. Any "innocent" casualties are blamed on Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 When a child puts his finger into a fire and gets it burned, he knows to not put his finger into a fire again. Not so Palestinians. Palestinians are people who put their finger into a fire, get burned.... and then get outraged that the fire would dare to burn them! In defiance of the fire, they stick their whole hand in, get it burned, and get even more furious that the fire has burned them again. To show the fire they will not be intimidated, they curse it, and throw wood and oil on it, and then stick their whole arm in the fire. Burned again, they howl with fury, and promise further attacks on the fire!. They put their feet and hands into it continually, getting burned again and again, but refuse to be intimidated. This is what it's like to be a Palestinian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamtam10 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 When a child puts his finger into a fire and gets it burned, he knows to not put his finger into a fire again.Not so Palestinians. Palestinians are people who put their finger into a fire, get burned.... and then get outraged that the fire would dare to burn them! In defiance of the fire, they stick their whole hand in, get it burned, and get even more furious that the fire has burned them again. To show the fire they will not be intimidated, they curse it, and throw wood and oil on it, and then stick their whole arm in the fire. Burned again, they howl with fury, and promise further attacks on the fire!. They put their feet and hands into it continually, getting burned again and again, but refuse to be intimidated. This is what it's like to be a Palestinian. I absolutely LOVE your analogy LOL. And it's true. They will never learn their lesson with Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf42 Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 When a child puts his finger into a fire and gets it burned, he knows to not put his finger into a fire again.Not so Palestinians. Palestinians are people who put their finger into a fire, get burned.... and then get outraged that the fire would dare to burn them! In defiance of the fire, they stick their whole hand in, get it burned, and get even more furious that the fire has burned them again. To show the fire they will not be intimidated, they curse it, and throw wood and oil on it, and then stick their whole arm in the fire. Burned again, they howl with fury, and promise further attacks on the fire!. They put their feet and hands into it continually, getting burned again and again, but refuse to be intimidated. This is what it's like to be a Palestinian. lol.....exactly right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Sadly, the comedy continues when the bleeding hearts club suggests that fire is a safety hazard and it is everyone's fault for letting it burn. There are a lot of folks who do not subscribe to the right of existence for Israel. There could be much trouble over this conflict. and this certainly won't be an end to the troubles. Even when Gaza is rubble being piled int the sea, there is and was the issues of the West Bank. In my opinion Israel should finish what it starts in Gaza, then move to resolve the problems with the West Bank in the same fashion. There is no other way to stop the terrorism, than to eliminate the terrorists. To be civilized, they should offer them a way out first, let a specified period of time elapse, before they act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.