Dion's speech

[kuzadd]

Aww, interesting that you don't comment on Dion's speach. haha

ah, actually had you waited.........never mind

[kuzadd]

Dion wants to lead this country he cannot even get his tape to the networks on time. talk about joe clark and lost mittons again. His speech was very hard to understand, got lost in translation I guess -

I didn't find it hard to understand.

I'll admit he stumbled slightly, but overall, unless one is hard of hearing, or is never exposed to persons who speak other languages, which is rather hard to imagine in Canada...... I didn't have an issue understanding.

[scribblet]

The Harper gov't has not lost the confidence of the voters, that's spin by the axis of evil. This is simply their pre-planned take over and lust for power. Do we really want big unions running this country?

The opposition parties have decided that since they cannot win support at the polls, they will gain power through manipulation of the political process.

Faced with a de facto coalition all preplanned before the budger, and certainly before the elected government can even begin to fulfill its mandate, the GG has little option but to tell the leaders of all parties to get their acts together and make parliament work.

Proroguing parliament to the end of January should help all people calm down, but I cannot imagine such immoral and conniving people as Layton and Dion running this country.

[kuzadd]

The Harper gov't has not lost the confidence of the voters,

Canada does not have a presidential system. Canadians did not elect Stephen Harper as Prime Minister on Oct. 14. They elected a Parliament, to which the government of the day must be responsible. Harper's Conservatives have more seats than any other party in that Parliament. But they do not have a majority. That means they need the support of at least one of the three opposition parties to govern.

Harper has lost the confidence of that Parliament.

Scriblett:

but I cannot imagine such immoral and conniving people as Layton and Dion running this country.

Yet, somehow you see the immoral and conniving instigator of this crisis, Stephen Harper, as the one who must run this country. Interesting?

Edited December 4, 2008 by kuzadd

[lukin]

Get Real!!! Read your post, then your title.

They didn't want anyone to see the video because it was of such poor quality. They were protecting Dion because his little camera phone speech showed how disorganized he is. The video hurts Dion's credibility. That's why it wasn't being shown on CBC while the other three were. Work on your comprehension skills before trying to put me in my place.

Do you understand max? The fewer people that saw Dion's video, the better it is for Dion. CBC helped him out.

[Sir Bandelot]

He uses fear mongering-waving the Bloc around.

the Bloc:A federal party , elected to parliament, by Canadians.

And he does not mention about previous times when the CPC has made deals with the Bloc. I guess then it was ok?

[charter.rights]

I have no doubt that if we go to another election that it will prove that Harper has lost the confidence of the voters as well. He has pissed on and insulted Quebecers, and has done nothing for the economy so far except to stand in his cozy Residence and say all is well. We know differently.

Harper really is in a no win situation. Either he becomes the official opposition and then nips at the Coalition as long as they can stand being partners, or he takes us into yet another election that sucks up millions more of our money and delays doing anything for the economy. He can't even get the consensus of Parliament any more since he has burned his bridges. If a January budget ends up offering gifts to them, it will have been to late. The Coalition and the Bloc are gunning to remove Harper for no confidence and I am afraid that is all that can happen at this point in the process. He can try to delay it by asking the GG to prorogue Parliament and if she agrees he can stay on another month. But that will only delay the economic crisis further and further alienate any chance of successfully passing a budget. His goose is cooked any way he turns and I suspect he knows that.

[Sir Bandelot]

I thought Harper did not do well in his speech. He looked uncomfortable or annoyed, like he was holding back. Frustrated, perhaps. What he actually said did not impress me, really all he said was just typical poitical rhetoric.

Then I saw the Dion show and I just laughed. Man, who is on this guys PR team? Are they too stupid to make a decent video, or what?

Dion also didn't impress me. I think he really should just stick to french and let a translator do it for him. He really comes across much better when he speaks french. But I think it's best that he is replaced as soon as possible.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[betsy]

That pathetic amateurish piece of slop that Prime Minister-in-waiting had thrown in the face of a worried nation surely speaks so loud and clear as to what awaits us should Canada be led by such a leader.

The media were tittering and mocking last night. Some of them felt indignation as to how Dion could've presented such an address to the nation. After all, this comes from the leader who says he is ready to lead this nation in this time of turmoil.

Well, how ready are they to save our economy? That tape was late in getting delivered. I was watching on CTV Newsnet and they were trying to fill up the dead air with replay of Harper's speech.

And when at last it arrived, it showed that Dion wasn't even ready to prepare a dignified address to the nation, at the very least. One media said "it looked like it was taken from a cellphone." One said "a highschool student could've done better."

According to Graham Richardson, the NDP and Layton, who were standing nearby waiting for Layton's turn were angry at the tape of Dion for it made them all look like fools. Really. No kidding.

And apparently Diuceppe met Dion at the elevator and he asked: "What was that all about? What happened there?"

Dion answered: "We are not used to being the Opposition."

I don't know about you but to me, that was the height of arrogance. Here is the man who is poised to grab power from the government elected by the people, who is supposed to explain to the nation why the election results will not be honored, and convince the nation that the Coalition led by him is the best option for Canada in this economic uncertainty. And he gave us that??? I guess he seem to know that the ousting of Harper is inevitable, and he will be the Prime Minister whether we like it or not. So it was a sloppy address to the nation from the future Prime Minister. So what?

That was a spit on the face of the nation!

This Coalition is not ready! When pointedly asked when is he going to present the detailed economic plans of the Coalition, he gave an evasive answer, "we are working on it." This is going to be like his Green Shift Plan - a work in progress. Making it up as they go along.

Anyway, the promises he gave last night was no different than the budget update of Harper that they were so critical about. And this promise and pledge comes from the man who just made a promise 7 weeks ago that there will be no Coalition bteween the NDP and Liberals. The same man who was supposed to be fighting for the unity of Canada and now in bed with the Separatist. Dion has nothing to lose. He is on the way out anyway....so he takes what he can! What about the brilliant Layton and Diuceppe?

The COALITION OF FOOLS! What an apt title, preceded by "The Coalition of the Willing."

Layton and Diuceppe, in their "sound" judgement, endorsed and upheld Dion

to be the best man to lead the Coalition. I guess this is them telling us that we, voters, were all wrong in not choosing Dion in the last election. Layton and Diuceppe has so much confidence in the competence and leadership of Dion that they are willing to bring down the people-elected government and ignore their own grassroot supporters and values.

I pray for an election. Whatever befalls us....let it be the decision of the people.

Should the current government fall, my only consolation is that the Coalition of Fools will not survive for long. There is tension and bickering among them now as we speak....the NDP and Diuceppe did not even bother to hide their distatse about Dion's tape from reporters last night.

It will cost us valuable time....and money, what with all the concessions and backroom deals among the three of them....and this may cripple the nation for many generations to come. It may even be the end of Canada as we know it.

So be it.

This was formerly the Opening Post of a thread entitled "We are not used to being the Opposition."

It has been merged into this previous post on the same topic.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Charles Anthony
merged threads

[charter.rights]

So you are saying....its not about the economy....its not about the will of Parliament....and its note even about the law, the constitution or bully politics.

"Its all about the tape"

If that is the best you can offer, you might want to consider not participating in discussions that are way over your head. The less inconsistent rhetoric that is put forth the better. Let me tell you darlin', you ain't even helpin' the good guys with your opinion.....

Edited December 4, 2008 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied previous post

[Moonbox]

CBC's bias is well documented and well understood by anyone but the most fervently partisan Liberal. That's why nobody watches CBC news, why nobody listens to CBC radio and why it wouldn't survive without subsidies.

[cybercoma]

One of the speakers on CPAC this morning just said, "I heard the reason Dion's tape was late was because Duceppe hadn't approved it in time."

This guy's a hoot.

[Michael Hardner]

Does anyone have a link to Dion's video ?

[madmax]

The Liberals and the NDP with the support of the Bloc want to lead this country, not Dion. Dion is caretaker until his replacement is found. But you all know that... Further character attacks on Dion are de rigueur I suppose.

The guy is a useless bumbling buffoon with no business in attempting to be the Prime Minister. The coalition, or the LPC, since I believe it was the LPC caucus that choose him, showed poor judgement in choosing an incompetent and pathetic individual with an inability to communicate as the leader.

Don't go blaming the posters here for the presentation of Dion. He had risen from the ashes, and I believe just sucked up all the air and possibly the life out of the coalition. Harper had nothing to do with Dions incompetence last night. Harper put in his own poor showing, only to be outdone by Dion.

BRAVO!!!

[White Doors]

They didn't want anyone to see the video because it was of such poor quality. They were protecting Dion because his little camera phone speech showed how disorganized he is. The video hurts Dion's credibility. That's why it wasn't being shown on CBC while the other three were. Work on your comprehension skills before trying to put me in my place.

Do you understand max? The fewer people that saw Dion's video, the better it is for Dion. CBC helped him out.

Check your facts. CTV didn't show it either and I don't think they can be accused of being friendly to Dion. lol

Poor ol' Steve Murphy.

[madmax]

I watched both of the speeches, I'll comment on content.

Harper doesn't mention his government has another minority, He calls it a mandate.

It was not a decisive one.

He mentions the oppositions actions, but not his own.

He uses fear mongering-waving the Bloc around.

the Bloc:A federal party , elected to parliament, by Canadians.

He paints the oppositions as treasonous.

He paints the actions as ant-democratic, they are not.

And lastly, he portrays himself as the "big daddy" who will take care of everything and kiss all the booboos.

Long on irrationality and fear, short on substance.

Then Create a Harper thread, if you are only talking about Harper. I saw his speech. It stunk.

Now, care to talk about Dion, or did you fail to see it , as it didn't make primetime???

[madmax]

I actually found Dion's speech more upbeat, delivered in a more positive manner.

Demonstrating inclusion. Demonstrating a plan to include all.

Overall, the better of the two speeches.

Perhaps in Content, but anyone can read content. Harpers had no content and a stiff, presentation.

Dion, well, GOOF come to mind. Especially considering that he wasn't LIVE!!!

[madmax]

Proroguing parliament to the end of January should help all people calm down, but I cannot imagine such immoral and conniving people as Layton and Dion running this country.

How about some immoral and conniving as Harper. That should be fine for you.

[kuzadd]

Then Create a Harper thread, if you are only talking about Harper. I saw his speech. It stunk.

Now, care to talk about Dion, or did you fail to see it , as it didn't make primetime???

But, I didn't only speak on the Harper speech, can you read?

I did see the speech, on "primetime" as you so call it.

Perhaps, the channel you were watching failed to show it?

[kuzadd]

Perhaps in Content, but anyone can read content. Harpers had no content and a stiff, presentation.

Dion, well, GOOF come to mind. Especially considering that he wasn't LIVE!!!

I tried to stick to the content of the speeches, in other words, what was being presented, put forward, spoke on, talking points etc.,

Content demonstrates what each leader had to say, what information they wanted presented.

Both leaders must have approved of the contents of both of their speeches.

[madmax]

Do you understand max? The fewer people that saw Dion's video, the better it is for Dion. CBC helped him out.

I understand that you want to take the incompetence of Dions ability to supply a tape, know where to go to present the tape, provide one tape instead of two, show up late, take the tape away to re-edit the French Language, come back with STILL one tape, and provide the most useless poor quality footage the planet has ever seen from a leader, and somehow, imply that the CBC was complicit in this is nonsense.

To give Dions party credit, they would have been wise to have not brought a tape, and let Harper rest on his words of nothingness. But no, the LPC had to embarrass themselves by providing a Tape LATE, to late for the networks.

What happened last night was not GOOD TV for the CBC anymore then it was for CTV. The networks were letdown by the leaders, just like our country has been.

If the CBC wanted to Help Dion, they could have just said the 8mm tape is not of broadcast quality and we aren't showing it under any circumstances.

Dion ended up with embarrassment of being late and of poor quality. AN F by any measure.

The CBC showing, gives the print media even more to write home about. Its media, the politics comes in the commentary spinning, and quite frankly the government always gets the best spin from the media. Especially the CBC.

[madmax]

Does anyone have a link to Dion's video ?

Repeated for good measure....

Does anyone have a link to Dions Video?

I reposted this because I just did about 5 posts and didn't want Michaels Request Missed.

[kuzadd]

Repeated for good measure....

Does anyone have a link to Dions Video?

I reposted this because I just did about 5 posts and didn't want Michaels Request Missed.

simply check the cbc website, it has been posted there since early am when I rewatched both of them myself.

[capricorn]

I actually found Dion's speech more upbeat, delivered in a more positive manner.

---

Overall, the better of the two speeches.

That may be so. In the end though, what matters most is the final impression left on the electorate by the presentation and delivery. What is seen on the screen projects what the viewer expects off the screen. Right or wrong, the message is secondary. Such is the power of the medium.

[jdobbin]

Both speeches were rather pathetic. Harper's didn't say anything that he hadn't said already. There was no new information, no indication that he was contrite, no sense of direction other than he was going to do it all over again if he he followed through with halting Parliament.

Harper today says he is willing to work with the Opposition to resolve this but it seems doubtful that he is. The inflammatory language of sedition, treason, traitor are being tossed around freely.

It seems clear that Harper wants to present a budget at the same time a throne speech is read as if that is going to make the difference. It will certainly be amusing if Harper announces bigger spending than what they criticized the coalition of going forward with. Certainly Tory supporters here will call it brilliant, simply brilliant, if he does announce something $30 billion or more.

Harper just can't be trusted. He will play the brinkmanship card time and time again and will put humiliating, bullying and killing the other parties off over anything else he does. He is like Medea from Euripides who in her anger destroys everything Jason loves just to leave him empty.

As for Dion's speech, it left me furious about the incompetence in that office. While there was nothing wrong with the speech itself, the screw-ups in getting it to the studio are unforgivable. Dion would have been better off doing what Layton did and read from prepared notes on live TV. It looked far better and sounded far more natural than Dion or Harper's mannequin, unnatural-like taped affairs.

Since proroguing has been granted, it will give the coalition the chance to get better organized. Careful consideration should be done on what budget alternative would be ready in the event that the coalition takes power. The entire cabinet needs to be decided or at the very least, the 24 shadow cabinet critics for opposing the Tories needs to be worked out.

As for Harper, he could still diffuse thing if he asks to meet with Dion or has his people put out feelers. I don't know that he wants to do that though. It is still all or nothing with him.

I'm sure he is hoping for the coalition to back down. If it does, he will have no mercy despite what many Tories say here. He is determined to have an election before the next Liberal leader is in place. He will say anything, do anything to ensure that election takes place. It will be about blame, it will be anger and it be about destruction because that is what Harper needs to do to achieve his majority.