The option of Proroguing Parliament

[ToadBrother]

if Harper prorogue's parliament... would it not be possible for the coaltion to call an emergency session considering the current stimulus package, or rather lack of.

First of all, Harper doesn't prorogue Parliament, the Governor General does. Now, I know, under normal circumstances, the GG just does what he or she is told, but in this case, allowing the Conservatives to escape a no-confidence vote just doesn't figure high in the realms of possibility. Whatever the GG's job is at any given moment, it's not to be the blanket that a faltering minority government can hide under.

[jdobbin]

Harper doesn't have to get a budget through. It would be a feather in his cap if he did. The only reason Harper should prorogue parliament is to buy time for the budget, other than that it is not necessary as the gov't will be defeated anyway. IMO getting a budget through is very very important.

If he prorogues Parliament, he has to do a Throne Speech which he can defeated on. No budget before a Throne Speech.

[g_bambino]

Now, I know, under normal circumstances, the GG just does what he or she is told, but in this case, allowing the Conservatives to escape a no-confidence vote just doesn't figure high in the realms of possibility.

Yet, that is exactly the scenario that unfolded in 1926 when Mackenzie King, threatened with a non-confidence vote, went to Lord Byng to have him prorogue parliament and call an election. Byng refused, but King was back as prime minister within three months.

[blueblood]

If he prorogues Parliament, he has to do a Throne Speech which he can defeated on. No budget before a Throne Speech.

The option is there though, all he has to do is go to the GG. They were flirting with this on MDL. No throne speech at all, they can go straight to the GG according to them.

[mjp]

If he prorogues Parliament, he has to do a Throne Speech which he can defeated on. No budget before a Throne Speech.

exactly. and that means we are back to square one, and defeat.

Not only will he look like a lame duck, but as others say it will prove the point of the coalition is trying to make. It will be the dagger in harpers back and I think he knows it.

By now his people have gone around the room to try to figure out how to make harper look good. if the GG were to prorogue parliament, it would also basically end her career as GG.

the GG will deny Harper and force him to have this vote by the laws of our land she can remove him herself and goto the coalition if she FEELS its the best interest of this country. without the harper gov't being defeated in the commons.

[jdobbin]

The option is there though, all he has to do is go to the GG. They were flirting with this on MDL. No throne speech at all, they can go straight to the GG according to them.

Let's go then. The result might still be the same that the Governor General asks the Opposition if they can form a government.

If Harper believes he is right, go on Wednesday when Jean is back and ask for an election. Don't be a coward on this. Do it.

Edited December 2, 2008 by jdobbin

[M.Dancer]

And first prize for the best understatement regarding the parliamentary uh...exigency, head, juncture, pass or...crisis. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for - first prize goes to...

Crisis, what crisis?

I can well imagine that you do the hysterical housewife routine better than me and on wash days you are simply all in a tither over whether you can get your pinks pinker and your yellows yellower but for me a crisis isn't something that has a prescribed constutional mechanism or clear precedent in history.

There is no crisis, at the end of the Day Canada will still have a government and you will still whine about it...

[Fortunata]

My best guess (because I'm such an expert) is that Jean will grant Harper's wish to prorogue Parliament. Harper will come back in January, having spent millions of dollars on PR, throw out a conciliatory throne speech, bring down a budget that the opposition will have to like, and then spend the rest of his term destroying all opposition and opposition parties. That's Harper's main raison d'etre. And Canadians are so short sighted they'll just let it happen.

[Oleg Bach]

Harper is not that dumb to have made such a blunder - It may be orchestrated... The rebels like all terrorists can be controlled though their rage and hate...who knows - He could be playing them..but if that is the case - it's a very dangerous and touchy game.

[capricorn]

the GG will deny Harper and force him to have this vote by the laws of our land she can remove him herself and goto the coalition if she FEELS its the best interest of this country. without the harper gov't being defeated in the commons.

What's key is "the best interest of this country".

The constitutional “experts” who point out that Governor-General Michaëlle Jean could legitimately ask Stéphane Dion to try to form a government are correct but superficial. They don’t take into account the responsibility the Governor-General would have to consider the circumstances.

Ms. Jean and her advisors would have to note that a party with 143 seats in the House of Commons would be defeated by an alliance of the Liberals, NDP and a Quebec-based political party explicitly and historically dedicated to the destruction of Canada. The Conservatives cannot be defeated except by Bloc Québécois votes.

If this were to happen, and Mr. Harper were denied a request to test the sentiments of Canadians with a new election, and a Liberal-NDP coalition, commanding 117 seats in the House, took office, the day-to-day power of the separatist party in the Canadian Parliament would be hugely enhanced, whether or not it had made a back-room deal with the leaders of the coalition.

I do not believe that the Governor-General can possibly allow herself to be complicit in such events. If the Conservatives are brought down by a separatist party, Ms. Jean would have to accede to the Prime Minister’s request to test the will of Canadians. To refuse to do this would be an abuse of vice-regal power, an abuse that would raise fundamental questions about Ms. Jean’s loyalty to the Constitution and to Canada. I doubt there is a precedent for such a situation in the history of parliaments.

---

The situation goes far beyond what some might see as a “normal” test of wills in a minority Parliament. It is a powder-keg that, once ignited, would have unpredictable consequences. Like millions of Canadians, I have been appalled these last few days at the blustering and scheming of a political class that seems to have utterly lost its senses, its moral compass and its sense of responsibility to the Canadian people. These politicians are behaving like spoiled, out-of-control children.

Canadians deserve better.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...der-canada.aspx

Michael Bliss has been know to criticize Harper, so his opinion cannot be categorized as partisan. He disagrees with the monarchy so he looks at the GG's office with a critical eye.

Among other controversial positions, he opposed the 1999 NATO bombing of Kosovo and continues to advocate the abolition of the monarchy. He also strongly criticized Stephen Harper's 2006 move to recognize Quebec as a nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bliss

His point about the GG is valid.

[Oleg Bach]

So the liberal GG can do what she FEELS is best for the country? Will this decision be one of logic and intellect and informed fact....or will it be about what F E E L S good? The only thing the GG has going for her is that she has a delightful smile that is right up their in importance with Obamas' elequence - and that she was postion as part of a great affirmative action plan...It takes more than colour and pandering political correctness to make a good GG.

[blueblood]

Let's go then. The result might still be the same that the Governor General asks the Opposition if they can form a government.

If Harper believes he is right, go on Wednesday when Jean is back and ask for an election. Don't be a coward on this. Do it.

Strategy. He won't go until he drops the throne speech-budget. By waiting and see what the Americans are doing, that's one more feather in his cap. Plus he'll have time for speeches and those effective attack ads.

Hell for all I know the Queen might get involved.

Edited December 2, 2008 by blueblood

[IMASINNER]

Harper is not that dumb to have made such a blunder - It may be orchestrated... The rebels like all terrorists can be controlled though their rage and hate...who knows - He could be playing them..but if that is the case - it's a very dangerous and touchy game.

i started a thread dedicatied to that exact possibility

[bush_cheney2004]

So the liberal GG can do what she FEELS is best for the country? Will this decision be one of logic and intellect and informed fact....or will it be about what F E E L S good?

Yep....not too shabby for a "ceremonial" office!

The only thing the GG has going for her is that she has a delightful smile that is right up their in importance with Obamas' elequence - and that she was postion as part of a great affirmative action plan...It takes more than colour and pandering political correctness to make a good GG.

Well, it certainly wouldn't do for the Yanks to have a more handsome and progressive head of state while Canada keeps last years' "Neocons". Way out of fashion.

All that is missing from this coalition soap opera is a blonde communist porn star, like in Italy.

[Oleg Bach]

It's ironic that Layton "man of the people" - is willing to further empoverish his wards by having another election that costs millions upon millions of dollars...I really thought he cared about the poor and disadvantaged?

[bush_cheney2004]

It's ironic that Layton "man of the people" - is willing to further empoverish his wards by having another election that costs millions upon millions of dollars...I really thought he cared about the poor and disadvantaged?

OK....but ....and there is no polite way to say this ....is that why many Canadians are so "frugal" (cheap)?

No one ever said that democracy was cheap.

[Oleg Bach]

OK....but ....and there is no polite way to say this ....is that why many Canadians are so "frugal" (cheap)?

No one ever said that democracy was cheap.

They actually do believe all is for free...but our truely frugal buisness leaders will say - "Sorry but your project is beyond my field of investment" - Looks like all of Canada is not worth the investment. Maybe you would like to buy some shares or fund a project that actaully does some good? They are not just cheap up here - they have a rule - take all you can and give nothing back - that's why our banks are still in good shape...they took everything! At least Americans took a risk...now it looks like Canada is risking everything all at once - novice gamblers can put you in the poor house.

[bush_cheney2004]

....At least Americans took a risk...now it looks like Canada is risking everything all at once - novice gamblers can put you in the poor house.

That's very true....and one of the reasons Canada was so starved for domestic capital. For this roll of the dice, somebody is going to crap out.

Edited December 2, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

That's very true....and one of the reasons Canada was so starved for domestic capital. For this roll of the dice, somebody is going to crap out.

Nothing can be achieved without capital and the flow of it. What I see happening here reminds me of a trio of sailors going into a bar for a binge who will leave scratching their heads and wondering who has cab fair to get back to the ship. Maybe they are similar to welfare clients who "stimulate" the economy for two days out of every mouth with a binging bout. This will cost them dearly no matter what the outcome is. Our reputation will suffer as will the economy. All of the players have visions of limos and gently fried crab meat dancing in their heads. The public assumes that those in governmental control are brighter than the common guy..not always...ambition and status seeking is their demise...If you want to be a great performer...you go for it - go for broke or stay home. They just want to stay home and watch themselves on TV and order bad take out...stupidity - lazyness....and good old fashioned greed -left or right political..all suffer from greed..there is never enough.

[Topaz]

I say Harper should think more about the poor Canadians and business that need HELP, then playing his political games! Today, in question period, to told Canadians in english that the Libs and the NDP were siding with the separatists and then he told in french that Duceppe was siding with the Federalist!!! Anyone watching can tell that the Cons are using the Federalist vs the separatists, but at least 60% of Canadian aren't biting. Just how low will Harper go to keep his job? IF Harper REALLY cared about Canadians and Canada he would step down and allow the other group to take over until Oct./09 and then have an election to decide.

[mjp]

IF Harper REALLY cared about Canadians and Canada he would step down and allow the other group to take over until Oct./09 and then have an election to decide.

I did watch question period, it was funny as all hell watching their stupid rhetoric being said over and over again, hoping that if they say it 10000 times people will believe it.

Harper will fight tooth and nail to keep his job, by spending millions of the conservatives money that was going to be used for the next election to try to keep his job. Whats more funny, is the conservatives are actually going to blindly give more money.

[Jack Weber]

I see now that Captain Sweatervest has demanded that his Reform minions call this "The Seperatist Coalition".I see they are trying to say this until someone,other than the neoCon's actually believes them.i

I've heared that some of the Con backbenchers are quietly saying that Sweatervest has blown it with his unnecessary ideological Bully Boy document last week and no matter what,he's done like dinner.

Of course no one will go on the record because,although Sweatervest likes to bully the opposition,he likes to bully his own members even more!

Edited December 2, 2008 by Jack Weber

[JerrySeinfeld]

He'll be telling everybody open text that power is the one and only thing he's there for, not the well being of the country.

Oh really? That sounds more like an accurate description of the Liberals' behavior in all of this. Getting their grubby hands on power, even at the cost of ransom to a separatist party, and in conflict with the voting public.

[madmax]

Oh really? That sounds more like an accurate description of the Liberals' behavior in all of this. Getting their grubby hands on power, even at the cost of ransom to a separatist party, and in conflict with the voting public.

Harper is running away from certain defeat. If the coalition cannot demonstrate an ability to govern with the support of the house then the public will have an election. Closing Parliment down, does the country no good and it is not strong leadership.

[johhny]

the honourable thing is for Stephen to call a spade a spade. He, Flaherty, and the others made a HUGE mistake. They BLEW IT, and I'm not happy about it either.

BUT-- If they want to call yet ANOTHER election, they can do it on THEIR own dime, not off the backs of tax-paying Canadians and those who have contributed in other ways to the building of this great nation.

If they don't, they are showing that they are no better than any other party our there. In 18 months, if that is how long the "Coalition" survives, the Conservatives will get their opportunity again, soon enough, but by then, I don't think we'll see the party led by Mssrs. Harper OR Flaherty. What they were thinking of, who knows.

It's also a good time to get rid of the deadwood in Cabinet. One problem they had that the other parties didn't have and that was talent and strong depth in lieutenants. One knows this was also due to Stephen Harper wanting to be a one-man band. Well, he got his chance and that's how the cards fall.

NO MORE DELAY. Let's move on and dock ALL MPs their pay for every day they fail to show up for work !!