Coalition Government

[jdobbin]

harper could have said exactly what you wanted and would still be ill considered

Think I said he could let this government work if hadn't acted like a donkey.

[blueblood]

Think I said he could let this government work if hadn't acted like a donkey.

nice double standard, its alright for liberals to act like donkey's but heaven forbid harper acts like the pm

[Smallc]

OMG, Don Newman just ripped Tony Clement to shreds. He asked him how they possible could have expected the opposition to pass the statement. Clement said it was good. He then asked him why he wasn't willing to defend it and instead they retracted parts.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Smallc

[Smallc]

And now, he's telling him how the house actually works and how its supposed to work, interrupting all of Clements talking points. Now he's doing the same thing when it comes to the talking points on the Bloc and him calling them illegitimate. Now hes telling him that that attitude is probably what cost them seats in Quebec. It was hilarious.

[Alta4ever]

No, they didn't. But, things happen during the life of every parliament that were all unforseen during the preceeding elections, and it is up to our MPs to handle these issues as they arise; we don't need an election every time some new matter comes up that we didn't already get to vote on. I am not particularly happy with the impending results, but with confidence in the government lost a mere month and a half after the last election, I accept that it would be utterly ridiculous to go to the polls again, and I suspect this hypothetical coalition will have to be a compromising one that must try and meet in a diluted middle ground between two ideological segments of the electorate that together form a majority of the populace. If these cooperators fail to do so, they too will fall, and we're off to the voting booths again; but, I'd rather it be given a go first, to at least stave off another election until the spring.

[ed. to add word]

This caolition was started weeks ago, not friday when the update was tabled. So yes we need to go to the polls again becasue the NDP bloc and liberals never once intentend to make this government work.

But alas the democratic Canada is now Dead Stelmach the time is now for a referendum. Let these morons rot in the cespool they are creating.

Canada has been sold out, the bloc has veto on everything a coalition would table.

[Smallc]

This caolition was started weeks ago, not friday when the update was tabled.

No it wasn't. That was never said once by anyone. Especially when it comes to the Liberal Party.

[eyeball]

This reminds me of 3 people in a strata we belong to. They hate each others guts so much that they will run over anyone else in the strata in order to get at each other, so everyone suffers as a result of those three. Describes our present parliament perfectly.

You really can't pick your neighbours...have you considered assassination?

[jdobbin]

nice double standard, its alright for liberals to act like donkey's but heaven forbid harper acts like the pm

Harper said he was going to be conciliatory. He was the ones that decided to go to war.

[blueblood]

Harper said he was going to be conciliatory. He was the ones that decided to go to war.

How, he gave an option as far as im concerned the opposition aren't being concillatory.

[Wilber]

You really can't pick your neighbours...have you considered assassination?

No but I think they maybe they have at times. Regardless, the mentality involved is the same.

[Alta4ever]

No it wasn't. That was never said once by anyone. Especially when it comes to the Liberal Party.

You didn't read the trascript of the NDP meeting did you.

[Smallc]

You didn't read the trascript of the NDP meeting did you.

If you think that discussions like that don't go on all of the time between all of he parties....

[eyeball]

How, he gave an option as far as im concerned the opposition aren't being concillatory.

They are with themselves.

[Smallc]

And now he did the same thing to James Moore over the tapes and the legality of it. I think he's getting quite upset with people twisting the constitution and the realities of parliamentary democracy with minority government.

[jdobbin]

How, he gave an option as far as im concerned the opposition aren't being concillatory.

Fine. That's reason to vote no confidence.

[Wild Bill]

It isn't really my fault if there are people who don't have a clue how their constitutional system works. This is a representative democracy where we don't directly elect the government, those we elected to represent us do, in a sense, and the Crown follows their advice in order to keep the system running smoothly. Whomever they put their confidence behind is he whom the Canadian populace puts its confidence behind, and as long as there is such a person, there need not be an election until the four year limit to a parliament's life is hit.

People seem to be under this wierd impression that prime ministers are elected in the way US presidents are. I don't think there are any Westminster style parliamentary democracies that do so; even in republican versions the prime minister is whomever has the confidence of the legislative chamber.

[ed. to add]

Who cares if its your fault or not? My point is that the average voter is going to view all this from what he believes is right or wrong and doesn't care about fine points of constitutional law making it legal.

You can lecture all your fellow citizens all you want and they won't give a damn. Neither will it influence their vote come NEXT election!

The vast majority of voters are NOT political junkies. They do believe that they have the right to pick ALL their own governments. The fact that they are technically wrong is not relevant. They are likely to punish those they feel took away their choice first chance they get.

If you have to get a judge to make someone vote for you then you've lost.

[reasonoverpassion]

The Conservative spin on the Coalition:

(1) The coalition is somehow undemocratic.

The Conservatives were given a minority government which means they won more seats than other party but not enough seats to have a clear majority. In order to pass legislation you need a majority and how you get it is to convince other parties to vote with you. When you can't do this, you can't make a minority parliament work for you anymore. I know Harper wishes he had a majority but it just didn't happen.

Thats how it works in Westminister style democracies. Thats how our political system is run.

(2) People didn't vote for the Coalition.

Yes people did vote for coalition. They voted for all the parties that make up the coalition. A minority parliamnet is about finding common ground. If you can do that, you can govern.

(3) The coalition is unstable.

Not more unstable that a party who now a minority of seats in the parliament and no partners to work with.

(4) The coalition will be fiscally irresponisble.

The last election is over and if people truly beleived this, the Convervatives would have their majority. Enough people obviously did not believe this and voted for the Liberals, Bloc and NDP.

The Ontario Legislature in 1985 happened the same way. Liberals and NDP came together made an agreement, kept to the agreement for two years and were able to govern. The sky did not fall and no plague of locusts visited Ontario in the years 1985-87.

[Riverwind]

Yes people did vote for coalition. They voted for all the parties that make up the coalition. A minority parliamnet is about finding common ground. If you can do that, you can govern.

The people did not vote for a coalition which would be beholden to the BQ. The liberals would have been decimated at the polls if voters new this was the outcome. Many liberal voters did not want NDP in government either - if they did they would have voted NDP.

[Slim MacSquinty]

1985 to 1987 is when the wheel began to come off the Ontario bus, red tory Bill Davis had Ontario well to the left and the coalition you speak of moved even further in that direction. Leading to the election of Bob Rae and well we all know how that went.

[Wild Bill]

The Conservative spin on the Coalition:

(1) The coalition is somehow undemocratic.

The Conservatives were given a minority government which means they won more seats than other party but not enough seats to have a clear majority. In order to pass legislation you need a majority and how you get it is to convince other parties to vote with you. When you can't do this, you can't make a minority parliament work for you anymore. I know Harper wishes he had a majority but it just didn't happen.

Thats how it works in Westminister style democracies. Thats how our political system is run.

(2) People didn't vote for the Coalition.

Yes people did vote for coalition. They voted for all the parties that make up the coalition. A minority parliamnet is about finding common ground. If you can do that, you can govern.

(3) The coalition is unstable.

Not more unstable that a party who now a minority of seats in the parliament and no partners to work with.

(4) The coalition will be fiscally irresponisble.

The last election is over and if people truly beleived this, the Convervatives would have their majority. Enough people obviously did not believe this and voted for the Liberals, Bloc and NDP.

The Ontario Legislature in 1985 happened the same way. Liberals and NDP came together made an agreement, kept to the agreement for two years and were able to govern. The sky did not fall and no plague of locusts visited Ontario in the years 1985-87.

Again, another lawyer's argument. The vast majority of citizens are not lawyers. They may be wrong in their belief that a government MUST come about as the people's choice in an election but so what? That doesn't mean that this coalition will not get them upset enough to have them pay the Opposition parties back NEXT election!

I'm becoming more convinced that a lot of people don't live in the real world...

[Smallc]

The people did not vote for a coalition which would be beholden to the BQ. The liberals would have been decimated at the polls if voters new this was the outcome. Many liberal voters did not want NDP in government either - if they did they would have voted NDP.

So the people who voted for the Bloc (a large number of which aren't sovereigntists) don't count?

[Oleg Bach]

Again, another lawyer's argument. The vast majority of citizens are not lawyers. They may be wrong in their belief that a government MUST come about as the people's choice in an election but so what? That doesn't mean that this coalition will not get them upset enough to have them pay the Opposition parties back NEXT election!

I'm becoming more convinced that a lot of people don't live in the real world...

Most are oblivious to other. Try walking along a busy street and you will find people attempting to walk right through solid matter _YOU..they are not ignorant or aggorgant - just oblivious of all others and delluded..that's the population. If you live in the real world and embrace reality and truty - YOU RULE>

[Slim MacSquinty]

My suspicion is that there are many members of the Liberal party who's political ideology lay well to the right of Dion/ Rae and the current incarnation of the party, they predominately sat on their hands last election waiting for the re-birth. Hence money has not flowed into the party, they will not be happy today as the re-tooling of the party will be put off by this drama. I suspect the internal consequences in the party could be catastrophic.

In federal politics in this country and UK this is unprecedented, always the moral authority to govern is sought this shows little respect for our democratic tradition.

[g_bambino]

My point is that the average voter is going to view all this from what he believes is right or wrong and doesn't care about fine points of constitutional law making it legal.

Government and law are inseperable; odd, then, that laws and customs are important to know when analysing this affair. Or, are you trying to say they're not? That, instead, ignorance and emotional reaction to the denial of imaginary entitlements should rule the day?

[Riverwind]

So the people who voted for the Bloc (a large number of which aren't sovereigntists) don't count?

Not when it comes to running the country. If Quebequers want to be part of the team then they can vote for another party. But as long as they insist on sending seperatists they cannot expect to be part of any government.