bigbrother Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 as you know Canada has one of the most decentralized federations in the world. also, the current Conservative party government's "open federalism" approach is not an improvement in that regard. do you think that "open federalism" is good or bad for Canada's future as a country. Quote
Alta4ever Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 (edited) As far as I'm concerned Canada has too much centralization in Ottawa. Who needs Big brother in the way forcing its will on all the provinces. Lets decentra;ize some more. Edited November 27, 2008 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied Opening Post Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Its fine the way it is. We are still one country, we just happen to give the provinces a great deal of power to control their own matters. Quote
eyeball Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 (edited) Who even needs provinces? All they're really good for is granting corporate charters and that's about it. I'd decentralize as far past them to as local a level as possible. Provinces are beyond provincial. Edited November 27, 2008 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Alta4ever Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Who even needs provinces? All they're really good for is granting corporate charters and that's about it. I'd decentralize as far past them to as local a level as possible. Provinces are beyond provincial. Ah but the Provinces have the right to write a consitution, counties and municipalities do not. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
bigbrother Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Posted November 27, 2008 im leaning towards harper cuz i like some of his points... "# taking advantage of the experience and expertise that the provinces and territories can contribute to the national dialogue # respecting areas of provincial jurisdiction # keeping the federal government’s spending power within bounds # full cooperation by the Government of Canada with all other levels of government, while clarifying the roles and responsibilities of each. " a centralized government is too powerful right ? Quote
kimmy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Posted November 27, 2008 Who even needs provinces? All they're really good for is granting corporate charters and that's about it. I'd decentralize as far past them to as local a level as possible. Provinces are beyond provincial. I at least agree with the part that I bolded. Decision-making should be made at the level closest to those affected, and exclude people whose interests are not relevant. On issues that are outside the scope of municipal boundaries yet still regional in scope, provinces are obviously best-equipped to make decisions. It would be stupid to have Ottawa bureaucrats deciding which rural roads in Northern Alberta should get upgrades, or whether a mining project in Interior BC should be approved. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bigbrother Posted November 28, 2008 Author Report Posted November 28, 2008 so you guys agree with the continuation and encouraging of a decentralized government ? Quote
eyeball Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 I at least agree with the part that I bolded.Decision-making should be made at the level closest to those affected, and exclude people whose interests are not relevant. On issues that are outside the scope of municipal boundaries yet still regional in scope, provinces are obviously best-equipped to make decisions. It would be stupid to have Ottawa bureaucrats deciding which rural roads in Northern Alberta should get upgrades, or whether a mining project in Interior BC should be approved. -k There is little reason why the examples you cite couldn't largely be decided on by municipal, regional district and 1st nation governments. The federal governments role should be to provide technical expertise and to facilitate the process by which these reach their agreements. What's in it for Canada? Respect mostly I suppose. That would be a good thing on which to build a country I think. Corporations, and most especially those that have an impact on natural resources, should be bound by locally granted charters. These charters could make provisions for including regional representatives on boards of local directors. Who do you suggest is best positioned to decide which interests and values are relevent and who would best represent them? Corporations and governments centralized in other regions thousands of miles away or the people who actually live in the affected region? The federal governments role in facilitating this would include building and supporting the capacity that local and regional governments need to eventually make these sort decisions on their own. Perhaps this capacity building process could be viewed as being something akin to an equalization program. OTOH we could just scrap the federal government and do everything I just suggested within each province, but eliminating 10 governments just seems more...productive if not efficient. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 so you guys agree with the continuation and encouraging of a decentralized government ? Yes but this process needs to be part of what I described in the post above. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
August1991 Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) Who even needs provinces? All they're really good for is granting corporate charters and that's about it. I'd decentralize as far past them to as local a level as possible. Provinces are beyond provincial.Eyeball, your post is almost meaningless. What is the State? Should the State be narrowly defined as merely the Head of a family?I happen to believe in government - and I'm inclined to believe in a Federal State. Decision-making should be made at the level closest to those affected, and exclude people whose interests are not relevant. On issues that are outside the scope of municipal boundaries yet still regional in scope, provinces are obviously best-equipped to make decisions. It would be stupid to have Ottawa bureaucrats deciding which rural roads in Northern Alberta should get upgrades, or whether a mining project in Interior BC should be approved. How quaint, Kimmy. "Decision-making should be made at the level closest to those affected... "How do you define "level closest"? You ignore that many Canadians who happen to speak English live in one geographic area. In Bonnyville and Gravelbourg, there are other Canadians who speak a language of a majority elsewhere. Kimmy, you also ignore whose ancestors arranged all these affairs. (Do ancestors matter? I think they do if only for our choice of offspring.) ---- IOW, we Canadians have created a civilized space in this world and we have done it for several centuries. In Europe, during the same time, supposedly civilized, sophisticated Europeans have killed and slaughtered each other on several occasions. (Since 1789, how many European died in horrible wars/revolutions. Since 1789, how many Canadians died in revolts/wars? - Sadly, how many Canadians died in European battles... ) In Canada, we have created this civilized space despite speaking different languages and being mostly Christian Catholic on a Protestant Christian continent. Federalism, like politics and Canada, is the art of compromise. Edited November 28, 2008 by August1991 Quote
fairvotecanada Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 I have already emailed PM Harper with a question about two weeks ago, it was something like this: I believe you are a traitor to my country prove me wrong... I have included a link to a video called The Gospel of Green that can be found here: The Gospel of Green I have addressed it to him here: [email protected] ----------------- I have also email the parliament with this message word for word: I want to denounce our PM for being a dictator and proving it; for being a traitor to my country and democracy if he does take the money assigned to the opposition party(s) as these are what 62% of Canada have voted for and he would be denying us all Canadian a fair representation by doing so. Can he really do that without asking the people first? Can he not take a percentage of his salary and give it back to Canada? Can he not remove a few like the last extra 6 ministers he created seat for? Those are all things he could do without hurting democracy and/or Canada while saving a lot of money and tightening his belt. When is the PM going to create green jobs as Canadian want? When is the PM going to create affordable housing program? When is the PM going to provide a stimulus package for Canadian? Why doesn't the PM get rid of the massage parlor employees and turn down the heat at the Parliament? Why doesn't he ask for a vote of all MPs to decrease salaries by ten percent? Is he just waiting for people to die? Is he planning on shipping the poor on an island for the Olympic if they survive (as this is still not guarantee)? Is PM 'Harper' depopulation not already on the way? How about creating a food-stamp program for the poor and low-wage worker? Please stop the Dictatorship from taking place. Sent to: [email protected] When this was not yet officially announced some time around 6h am on November 26, 2008 but just mentioned on the news. Join me and email everybody to do the same to save our democracy and our country; add your own suggestion if you have some but get the GG to hear us all Canadian unless you want "Hitler" to dictate in this country too. You have the email address here. Quote http://thebenefactory.ca No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! ___________ Justice, sir, is the great interest of man on earth. It is the ligament which holds civilized beings and civilized nations together." -Daniel Webster
cybercoma Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 Hey fairvotecanada, instead of emailing the prime minister, why don't you put a toonie in an envelope and mail it to the party of your choice? Quote
fairvotecanada Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 Hey fairvotecanada, instead of emailing the prime minister, why don't you put a toonie in an envelope and mail it to the party of your choice? I cannot afford it as I need to feed my cats and pay my rent with my money, beside eating at the Mission myself, and I barely make the bills doing that. Still looking for a cheaper rental, but everything is more expensive than my place in Vancouver. I have also applied for low-income housing but the waiting list is 6 years. Are you laughing yet? Because I am not, this has been that way for a month for me, I am already wondering how much I can save by not turning on the light until five in the afternoon; it is hard on my legs as I bump into everything and on my eyes as well, my cats are learning to get out of the way... Oh and my big outing is the library, free and at least I can read there... Quote http://thebenefactory.ca No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! ___________ Justice, sir, is the great interest of man on earth. It is the ligament which holds civilized beings and civilized nations together." -Daniel Webster
M.Dancer Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 Oh and my big outing is the library, free and at least I can read there... While you are at the library, cheque out the local newspaper's help wanted section. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
White Doors Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 I cannot afford it as I need to feed my cats and pay my rent with my money, beside eating at the Mission myself, and I barely make the bills doing that. Still looking for a cheaper rental, but everything is more expensive than my place in Vancouver. I have also applied for low-income housing but the waiting list is 6 years. Are you laughing yet? Because I am not, this has been that way for a month for me, I am already wondering how much I can save by not turning on the light until five in the afternoon; it is hard on my legs as I bump into everything and on my eyes as well, my cats are learning to get out of the way... Oh and my big outing is the library, free and at least I can read there... Yet you can afford a computer and internet connection. What has changed in the last month that all of a sudden you have to use the food bank? Are you blaming the credit crunch on you having to use the food bank? Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
fairvotecanada Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) Yet you can afford a computer and internet connection.What has changed in the last month that all of a sudden you have to use the food bank? Are you blaming the credit crunch on you having to use the food bank? My (part-time) roommate moved out... paying full rent and full bills on handicap status check. I guess I need to explain that too; roomy cannot afford to travel here anymore, and this being a bachelor apartment I cannot find a new roomy that will pay to live with an handicap person and 2 cats (full time) in such a small place. Computer is two years old, bought cash with saving and award from court money; it is also my only contact to outside world, should I go to live in a cave to satisfy you? Edited November 28, 2008 by fairvotecanada Quote http://thebenefactory.ca No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! ___________ Justice, sir, is the great interest of man on earth. It is the ligament which holds civilized beings and civilized nations together." -Daniel Webster
White Doors Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 My (part-time) roommate moved out... paying full rent and full bills on handicap status check. I guess I need to explain that too; roomy cannot afford to travel here anymore, and this being a bachelor apartment I cannot find a new roomy that will pay to live with an handicap person and 2 cats (full time) in such a small place.Computer is two years old, bought cash with saving and award from court money; it is also my only contact to outside world, should I go to live in a cave to satisfy you? No, not at all. Perhaps you should look into cheaper accomodations. Are you DT Vancouver? If you moved out to Surrey you could probably get a nicer place for less money. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
fairvotecanada Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 No, not at all.Perhaps you should look into cheaper accomodations. Are you DT Vancouver? If you moved out to Surrey you could probably get a nicer place for less money. I am looking into low-income housing as I do not know anyone that could help me out of the Downtown area, for now this looks very bleak waiting list is 6 years. So I cannot even hope to move until I find something so things are tough but I will survive somehow. I am teaching myself (as Harper has cut the re-training program) to build website and hoping to make this computer pay me; I am at least trying and I will not give up until I die. Quote http://thebenefactory.ca No Good Deed Goes Unpunished! ___________ Justice, sir, is the great interest of man on earth. It is the ligament which holds civilized beings and civilized nations together." -Daniel Webster
White Doors Posted November 28, 2008 Report Posted November 28, 2008 I am looking into low-income housing as I do not know anyone that could help me out of the Downtown area, for now this looks very bleak waiting list is 6 years. So I cannot even hope to move until I find something so things are tough but I will survive somehow.I am teaching myself (as Harper has cut the re-training program) to build website and hoping to make this computer pay me; I am at least trying and I will not give up until I die. If you simply moved out of downtown you could get a cheaper place. No government mandated 'low-income housing' need be required. I can't afford to live in downtown Vancouver either. Why do you think that you don't have to move? Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
bigbrother Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) hey guys, can i get a couple more opinions in this.. wouldn't "open federalism" increase fiscal imbalance in Canada ? for example, the distribution on transfer payments from province to province would be inconsistent so to speak ? thankss Edited December 8, 2008 by bigbrother Quote
eyeball Posted December 8, 2008 Report Posted December 8, 2008 Eyeball, your post is almost meaningless. What is the State? Should the State be narrowly defined as merely the Head of a family?I happen to believe in government - and I'm inclined to believe in a Federal State. What's the difference between a provincal and federal government as far as an individual is concerned? They're often just as distant, faceless and unaccountable as any client care call center situated in some far off land. In Canada, we have created this civilized space despite speaking different languages and being mostly Christian Catholic on a Protestant Christian continent. Federalism, like politics and Canada, is the art of compromise. Did you ever consider that people in Canada are just naturally inclined to get along? Why should the state get all the credit for that? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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