Is Art Religion Or Politics?

[August1991]

Do Artists create "Art" because they want to express something new? Or do they do Art because they want to be rich? Or do they do Art to sleep with chicks - to be attractive to guys?

Does this question matter?

The Internet means people can get music for free.

If musicians don't make music for money, then there will be no problem. But if musicians make music to attract guys or to sleep with chicks, there may be a problem. And if musicians make music for money, then there won't be new music in ten years. We'll only have Mozart, the Beatles, Ellington and Scott Joplin.

So, what is Art?

[Pellaken]

the truth is that unless art has some payback, its not worth the time to do for most, so we buy songs, we buy books, we buy paintings (well, I dont) to encourage them to make more of the things we like.

[Hugo]

Do Artists create "Art" because they want to express something new? Or do they do Art because they want to be rich? Or do they do Art to sleep with chicks - to be attractive to guys?

All of the above. You can't lump "artists" into one group and define their common motivation anymore than you could lump "women" into one group and define their common motivation.

[RB]

Do Artists create "Art" because they want to express something new?

art is a creative form of articulation and is expressed in music, writing, paintings, sculptures, cabinet making, textiles, architecture, dance etc and is traced in parallelism (well writing was sort a reserve as "secret" for those who can read) all others are of entertainment

nowadays art is broadly define you can master “art” in vocalization, selling, playing, whatever line of work your're in - stock market?

what i am not for sure of is did art emerged as a practical necessary?

well the archaeologist can say based on the art that they have discovered from remote civilizations and of long ago is that emotions and feelings are very similar to that of our own now.

and they have also discover art showing animals and people hunting.

so perhaps the art is useful to help others to hunt, and perhaps the animals were of religious significance.

but what is clear in my mind is ART IS POWERFULl. it is symbolic of common language even when it becomes complicated and presented by mathematics - geometry-cubism, physics –light/color, impressions, singing, dance, and is consumed with truths

during the western middle ages Islamic and Jewish art form were almost abstract to the point where it was forbidden to produce an image of god.

in early christian europe theologians, intellects, politicians in recurrent phases railed against the power of art. well, if you look at the waves of iconoclasm in the byzantine empire see the “bonfires of vanities” was eliminated, thousands of works of “degenerate art” were destroyed in nazi germany. why? because it is the art that depicted scenes, figures and recognizable objects that instilled some presence of the here and reality

so art is very interesting in that it tells the story of different points of history

when we fast forward to now, we can see that art have evolve and added significant meaning as it relates to life to what is present day showing modern man in claustrophobic setting, as he is a victim to society, worn and discarded, to what is surreal, to urban graffiti, drugs and AIDS such as “Keith Haring – untitled”

what i see with art is that we find multiply ways for meaning as it exists to be transmitted allowing everyperson to experience through art ... history, in the moving and the indispensable emotion of what is beauty of life

Or do they do Art to sleep with chicks - to be attractive to guys?

well, i believe here is what the artist sees .... so you give the artist what he needs and he will put everything in its place, well how about what the eye can see you see

for example:

you want two breasts, here .... have your two breasts

you want your nude detailed, here..... right down to the final pussy hair or see "attempting the impossible" rene magritte -

Painting "Attempting the Impossible"

my point is sleeping with the depicted painter it is quite impossible no?

[Elder]

For me art is expression. My chosen forms of art are singing and poetry, and while yes, I can dazzle women by singing (they love the deep, low voice), that's not why I sing. I could probably very easily flatter a woman with poetry, but that's not why I write. There are times that it lifts my spirits, there are times that it vents my sadness. There are times that it voices my thoughts and emotions in a way words alone never could, and there are times that it is my ultimate prayer (music is my favorite form of worship).

In my oppinion, every person should have some form of art in their life, something they can express themselves with. They need not be good at it. There are all kinds of art out there, and if properly used, all of them can touch the heart, and that is a powerful tool. Yes, there are plenty who use art for themselves, and there are plenty who it could seem the art uses them. I guess that's just a personal choice.

[KrustyKidd]

I wrote a book for money, made it too. Not millions but I did it. I am working on another one that is more for me than anything else pretty much. It consumes me, I think about it at least four hours a day with ideas and moods cascading over my mind over and over, refining the thing. I have changed my music prefferences to some weird stuff to put me in the mood for certain chapters and such. It has ideas not seen or read by myself and when done, if ever it will be over a thousand pages that I hope to bring the readeer into the world which lives in my mind. Money? Hell, by the time I finish it my business will be sold, and I will be happily retired I hope. It is mine and I work on it because I must. It consumes me.

[Elder]

Here's an old quote that I have no idea where it came from aside from one of my music professors back in college (it's about music, but I think it can apply to any other form of art): "When you give your soul to music (or writing, or drawing, or any other art), it kisses you back."

[August1991]

"When you give your soul to music (or writing, or drawing, or any other art), it kisses you back."

I heard something similar from a saxophonist. He said, "Since I started playing, I've never really been lonely." In fact, he was a very lonely man and I knew it. But I understood what he meant too.

I wrote a book for money, made it too. Not millions but I did it. I am working on another one that is more for me than anything else pretty much. It consumes me

This I find intriguing. Do people create Art because of a desire to communicate? But that's politics!

I once asked a visual artist to whom he was directing his work and he answered me, "That's a good question. I don't really know. It seems to me that some people understand what I'm doing."

Huh?

You can't lump "artists" into one group and define their common motivation anymore than you could lump "women" into one group and define their common motivation.

The analyst weighs in. Except, admirably, the analyst doesn't analyze! Artists do Art for myriad reasons. Mr. Analyst (Hugo): Are their motivations, uh, random?

the truth is that unless art has some payback, its not worth the time to do for most, so we buy songs, we buy books, we buy paintings (well, I dont) to encourage them to make more of the things we like.

Pellaken will probably not read this. But the quote is good. There's gotta be some "payback". What exactly?

Or, do Artists simply have this "thing" inside themselves that has to come out?

[Mozart apparently did it for his Dad. Paul McCartney said he did it for the chicks. Mordecai Richler said he never did it unless there was dough.]

[KrustyKidd]

Or, do Artists simply have this "thing" inside themselves that has to come out?

To answer that I would have to assume that I fall into the artist catagory as I am creating something which I hope is a work artfully contrived. I am not an artist by trade but a person who has a world or story that is totally imaginary which I try to bring to life. If sucessful, it will be readable and considered art, if not, it will still be my soul on paper and isn't that considered art as well? Or are we only talking about 'sucessful artists?'

As i said before, money is not the motivator, to not do it is unthinkable, how could I live with myself forever thinking that I could have written the next 'count of Monte Cristo' or 'Lord of the Rings?' If it reaches a stage where it makes money then I would look at it as a gauge of my success as an artist, not a businessman.

[RB]

my kid and i sometimes hang out at the Wynick/Tuck gallery. it is a small, quiet gallery, not a lot of folks milding about and sometimes we happened upon an artist

my observation is just as the sciences …. art is about inquiry. it is a search for answers as it expresses attitudes, becomes engaging, provide solutions, and compare observations

well the mathematical person is usually of logic, are mostly of quantity, shape and arrangement as they attempt to find answers.

but I don’t know if a logical person will actually say that architecture is the “art of wasting space beautifully” but somehow this logic indeed does correlates to art because it is the engineering mind that created the awe of the Louvre

an artist can delightfully create for us a thing of beauty, or what is relevant or what is a significant event, or a symbolic affair or whatever you wish upon

i think the link in this instance is experience, feelings, and understanding and it does not have to be innovative as it connects with history, questions and answers.

similar to Krusty’s experience, these artists in their music, painting, and writing are motivated and moved mostly by themselves in their expression in what they do, well unless they are spotlighted, or have some talent to market products it is useless for money making

in my hasty attempt to compare art to the sciences i find that:

• Art can become a way of thinking and an attitude of mind

• Art has conquer itself by its development of its various methods e.g. types of art

• Art use experiences to lead rather than follow – it allows the sneak-preview of finer things but also to build explanations and also refine it

• Art poses questions and we can use our experience, various methods to confront the questions

• Art also can provide alternative explanations. Well art can propose a different view, perhaps conflicting view, but the point is we can have a debate about some assumption

• Art allows the artist boundless opportunities to pursue the artist own questions, hence our larger concepts of life unveil rather than disconnected truths

• Art produces new knowledge and communication therefore it can become political

for me art has a connection with everything

Art like science cannot and does not, work in isolation and must have some full complement of thinking to EXPANSION, maybe of new ideas and thoughts, of shared experience and thoughts and their imaginings

i believe this is the humbleness of what the artist strive for

well that’s why i show up to at the galleries/theaters where ever

yep i want to master the art of humbleness

[RB]

I was very surprise to learn that only 4.5% of 39,000 displays work of art showing at the National Gallery are created by a woman, how can this be?

[Guest eureka]

If we are to tlk of artists and not the Beatles and their equivalents inother art forms, then the question is both easy to answer and impossible to understand.

Artists, true artists, create because they have to. They could never tell you why they do whatever it is that they do. In literature, there may be a qualification to that in that the writer may have something he needs to communicate and, incidentally, proves to be an artist.

[theloniusfleabag]

Why does one masturbate? (Better yet, why can one masturbate and be funded by the Canadian Arts Council?)

Art is everything, but only valued (or evaluated) by the beholder(and/or peer pressure). Art is love, and, as an abstract entity(as is love), is manifested (and bound by the limits) of those in love, the artists. What compels them? The desire to unfetter their 'loves' from convention.

[RB]

why can one masturbate and be funded by the Canadian Arts Council?

what is this some inside information you are willing to share

we have some displays at my office currently, the other day I asked the painter about the significance of the painting with 3 vertical lines in various colors - its called "the climb", it was a "circle of despair" for me, the whole run around to optimism - these artist are also nuts

Art is everything, but only valued (or evaluated) by the beholder(and/or peer pressure). Art is love, and, as an abstract entity(as is love), is manifested (and bound by the limits) of those in love, the artists. What compels them? The desire to unfetter their 'loves' from convention.

what are you saying, please explain

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear RB,

what is this some inside information you are willing to share

I found this on google, but a bit difficult. I remember this story when it happened, as well as a woman who had displayed the rotting corpses of rabbits for 'Art' money.

Cultural institution pays artist to ejaculate seven times

A prestigious Canadian arts centre has paid a man over £500 to ejaculate seven times.

Mexican performance artist Israel Mora's semen is on display in seven glass vials at the Banff Centre in Alberta.

One of the country's MPs says the centre has wasted public cash. The centre says the piece asks "difficult questions".

"This is the most obscene, vile display of the squandering of public money but it's more than that. It's an affront to any decent citizen," Jim Abbott, MP for Kootenay-Columbia, says.

The Banff Centre is one of Canada's most prestigious cultural institutions. The exhibit is part of an international artist exchange agreement.

The artist says the vials represent seven members of his family. They're displayed in a cooler, which has been strung up between two trees at the centre.

Banff Centre communications director Connie MacDonald told the Canadian Press: "I don't believe it is unusual in the arts world, especially in terms of contemporary art, which for the average person is often very challenging and difficult to understand.

"When I think about contemporary art I think that by definition it is meant to explore current issues facing society. It is about creating dialogue - it's about asking difficult questions and it is often about very serious topics, whether it's poverty, violence or sexuality."

The artist was unavailable for comment.

Story filed: 12:36 Thursday 6th December 2001

[barbarosa]

I think art is used as a tool to express define and communicate in ways that words cannot

I also think that art is basiclly persistence and the strugle to survive

[barbarosa]

But i dont see what it has to do with religion Sure many religions have used it to teach to imagine and to beautify

Islamic art was restricted by not bieng able to portray a humans/living thing instead it focused on geometrical figures

Art in the christendom was used to teach stupid and illiterate peopl eg. art in st. Jacobs church in Rotenburg Germany depicts jesu and other religious figures doing things that were described of in the bible such as a famous carving depicting Jesu at the last supper giving bread to judas marking him as the tratior

modern art is used by the "mtv"generation to "express" themselves in odd ways

the whole waking off thing isnt art its just sic There trying to be "articulate" in disturbing forms

[Slavik44]

Art can serve many purposes, If you look at the French revolution and guys like de goya and Jaques louis david we can see art being used for political propaganda. Many tiems an artist has a message, mind you I am not one for interpreting art, I just like the pretty colours and thats just it when ever we are dealing with a relative subject, such as Art, it can be anything and everything because it is how a person percieves it. I mean look at the semen inthe jar thing, i mean is it art, to me no, common any guy can jerk off in a jar it doesn't make him an artist. But I am sure some one out there disagrees with me.

[Michael Hardner]

Did art replace religion ?

[reason10]

On 3/13/2004 at 1:03 AM, August1991 said:

Do Artists create "Art" because they want to express something new? Or do they do Art because they want to be rich? Or do they do Art to sleep with chicks - to be attractive to guys?

Does this question matter?

The Internet means people can get music for free.

If musicians don't make music for money, then there will be no problem. But if musicians make music to attract guys or to sleep with chicks, there may be a problem. And if musicians make music for money, then there won't be new music in ten years. We'll only have Mozart, the Beatles, Ellington and Scott Joplin.

So, what is Art?

Gee, that's a little complicated. The term ART covers so many endeavors. Cartoonists are artists who create art on demand for actual money. There are such people as commercial artists, who are paid a ton of money to create all sorts of graphic scenery, either in actual landscape images or somewhat abstract forms. And there is Robert Mappelthorpe, who takes American tax dollars to pay for his pornographic art (such as a photo of a man urinating in the mouth of another man.)

You're right on the free music/internet thing. YouTube pretty much has relegated the record store to total extinction. Youtube also can give us some full length movies that previously we might have had to rent from the video store or wait for them to come on TMC.

By the way, as far as new music goes there's nothing really wrong with it, except for the fact that the market is FLOODED with it. How could that happen, you might ask?

Throughout the golden years of pop music (50s through most of the 80s) the record companies controlled everything that went on the air, for the simple reason that recording time cost a fortune. To give you an example, Sgt. Pepper  cost The Beatles 30,000 Pounds, and that was a lot of money back in the early Sixties. And they only had four tracks to work with.

I recorded four songs with a Neil Diamond tribute act (in 87) at a studio that cost $4 million. Then in 95 I recorded four Calypso/Soca tunes in a downtown Orlando studio that was much more state of the art and only ran $90,000.

Today, you can download an UNLIMITED TRACK digital recording studio, including all the plug-ins (reverb, compression, pitch correction) FOR FREE. It may not be the quality of Pro-Tools but it's FREE. If you have even a laptop with Windows 10 64bit, you can download FOR FREE Cakewalk Bandlab, which IS the state of the art.

Today's music market is flooded because recording time is practically free.

[reason10]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:25 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Did art replace religion ?

I'm wondering if art is in bed with religion. There are countless historical masterpieces located in The Vatican.

That's a hard one to call. Religion is adherence to a set of rules and values based on the alleged existence of a Deity. I'm thinking Art is candy for the eyes and the soul, at least visual art.

[August1991]

3 hours ago, reason10 said:

... YouTube pretty much has relegated the record store to total extinction. Youtube also can give us some full length movies that previously we might have had to rent from the video store or wait for them to come on TMC.

.....

Throughout the golden years of pop music (50s through most of the 80s) the record companies controlled everything that went on the air, for the simple reason that recording time cost a fortune.

Michael, thanks for resurrecting this thread! (OTOH, gawd knows what I posted years ago.)

Google bought Youtube. Google hired Hal Varian.

=====

Why do artists create?

In the golden years of pop music, it was apparently money. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by August1991

[reason10]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

Michael, thanks for resurrecting this thread! (OTOH, gawd knows what I posted years ago.)

Google bought Youtube. Google hired Hal Varian.

=====

Why do artists create?

In the golden years of pop music, it was apparently money. 

Artists create because human beings are superior creatures. Our mental processes are complex, often requiring complex means of communication, far beyond what is available to us today.

A lot of money was to be made in the golden years of pop  music. The Beatles had decided to record Sgt. Pepper because they had agreed not to tour any more. The crowds were too large and the girls were screaming so loud that the band couldn't hear its music. (Imagine if the Beatles had Van Halen's amplification gear back then.) So the Beatles had decided to make money solely on album sales.

Steely Dan was another group who went that route, preferring not to tour, (where it lost money.)

In the mid Seventies up to the early 90s, groups with radio hits only made money in personal appearances. By then, album sales were going through technology changes.

Today, a new artist signing with an established record company starts out a good quarter million in debt to the record company, and has to tour its ass off to make the money to pay them back. If you're wondering why so many new acts market their music on Youtube and Spotify, that's the reason.

[TreeBeard]

On 1/5/2023 at 4:25 AM, reason10 said:

human beings are superior creatures.

Doesn’t that depend how we measure it?  Are humans the fastest runners?  The best swimmers?

 

I think we rank well under a lot of insects in the superiority category.  I think insects will be around a lot longer than the human species, which makes them superior.  Prove me wrong.  

Edited January 6, 2023 by TreeBeard

[reason10]

47 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Doesn’t that depend how we measure it?  Are humans the fastest runners?  The best swimmers?

 

I think we rank well under a lot of insects in the superiority category.  I think insects will be around a lot longer than the human species, which makes them superior.  Prove me wrong.  

Show me an insect who built a hospital.