Banned from rabble.ca in

[Mr.Canada]

The first time around I posted on a thread about a bus driver who used force to restrain a bunch of kids who were tearing a school bus apart. I suggested that the kids came from single-mother households and that the kids had no right to destroy property. Apparently that was "anti-feminist".

QUOTE(Drea @ Oct 31 2008, 03:29 PM) *

Mr. Canada, if it makes you feel any better, I was banned from Babble too for being too rightwing LOL

Drea... too rightwing?!! LOL

The thread was about squeegie kids deserving a Union

kengs333 and Drea are right wing...all right that's it. Now I've heard everything I need to lie down...lol.

[jbg]

I was no where close to as abrasive as I am here. I merely disagreed with them very politely and they all called me a troll because I disagreed with them...I thought it was funny as hell.

Anyone else ever post there?

This is a partial list of my prior screen names, rabbler number, and thread from which I was banned:

1. Sndngr 11098 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...7&t=001254;
   
2. Wpndp 11161 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...7&t=001254;
   
3. Love Billy Goat 5574 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=003031&p=;
   
4. Algonquin park visitor 5623 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php...1&t=000220;
   
5. Wolfluvr 5656 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000409&p=;
   
6. APV 5648 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000409&p= ;
   
7. Banff Tourist 10261 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=001411&p=;
   
8. Naturefreak 11678 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000492&p=;
   
9. El Ka’Bash 11631 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000519&p=
   Also banned here: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000492&p=;
   
10. Reality_Bleats 11759 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000519&p= (just banned, last post, no reference to banning on thread);
    
11. JBG5659 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php...5&t=000529;
    
12. Nordic Demon Privateers (play on initials NDP) 7549 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000529&p=;
    
13. Left Wing Zealot 7405 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000498&p= (just banned, last post, no reference to banning on thread);
    
14. Several others I couldn't find.
    

I am proudest of "Wolfluvr" for this thread (link), third post down, which summarizes what they are all about.

Edited November 1, 2008 by jbg

[Black Dog]

This is a partial list of my prior screen names, rabbler number, and thread from which I was banned:

1. Sndngr 11098 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...7&t=001254;
   
2. Wpndp 11161 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...7&t=001254;
   
3. Love Billy Goat 5574 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=003031&p=;
   
4. Algonquin park visitor 5623 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php...1&t=000220;
   
5. Wolfluvr 5656 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000409&p=;
   
6. APV 5648 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000409&p= ;
   
7. Banff Tourist 10261 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=001411&p=;
   
8. Naturefreak 11678 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000492&p=;
   
9. El Ka’Bash 11631 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000519&p=
   Also banned here: http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000492&p=;
   
10. Reality_Bleats 11759 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000519&p= (just banned, last post, no reference to banning on thread);
    
11. JBG5659 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php...5&t=000529;
    
12. Nordic Demon Privateers (play on initials NDP) 7549 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...=000529&p=;
    
13. Left Wing Zealot 7405 http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi...t=000498&p= (just banned, last post, no reference to banning on thread);
    
14. Several others I couldn't find.
    

I am proudest of "Wolfluvr" for this thread (link), third post down, which summarizes what they are all about.

All of which raises the question: what the hell is wrong with you, man? Do you have ,you know, a life?

Funny thing is I followed on of your smug links to Free dominion, aplace not known for its diversity of thought, and came across this post by member "Thomas Linner" there on the issue:

I

will not indulge in this game. Suffice it to say that if anyone came in here and started throwing around insults, bashing xians, and generally taking every opprotunity to call conservatives of all stripes a bunch of red-neck Nazis . . .they would probably not be met with much decorum.

Rabble is under no obligation to provide bigots a place to spew their filth. I happen to believe that most Rabblers and FDers could get along genially in a shared forum, but that is not what interests a great many of those who choose to 'enlighten' the socialist masses. We are called anti-semites. We are called murderers. We are treated with sneering contempt by trolls with no greater purpose than to red-bait. I see no reason why we should subject ourselves to such abuse on a progressive forum; any more than I can understand why Free Dominion should have to allow their regular contributors to be brow-beaten by a bunch of anarchists shouting FASCIST at the top of their keyboards (er, you get the picture).

Again, I would point to Heywood Floyd and Gir Draxon as examples of principles conservatives who make their points effectively and politely at Rabble and are respected for it, in the same manner I would try to make my own should I decide to post at FD in the future. When you are in someone else's sandbox, you play by the house rules or you go home.

I cannot speak to the specifics of any given banning, nor for Audra herself (she is quite capable, and does not need my help). I will say that in my time at Rabble, I have only seen one banning (that I noticed) which I thought questionable. I will not engage in a running conversation on this issue. Suffice it to say that if you think yourself justified in flaming and baiting on Rabble you can expect to be banned. If you don't like it, don't come.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

The whole point about a forum is to discuss issues, which means that people have differing opinions.

That's what you think. Of course, it's also possible to have a forum to discuss differing opinions and share ideas with people who share the same basic values you do and not spend your time arguing with every silly asshole who thinks they have a god-given right to post whatever and wherever they please without consequence.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Black Dog

[August1991]

Boy, you reaaaaallly want this subject to end. I can see why: it doesn't reflect well on you. To sum up: moron trolls forum. Moron gets banned for violating house rules. Moron starts topic on another forum whining about it, gets called moron.

I kinda hafta agree with BD here.

Rabble makes it clear that they want to create a small space on the Internet where likeminded people can discuss at ease topics that interest them. They consider themselves "progressive" and ITHO, they don't want to waste time repeating/reviewing "facts" they know to be true. Whatever.

If someone starts a forum about how great the New York Jets are, is it wrong if someone comes along and claims that the Winnipeg Jets are better?

----

I too was banned from rabble. I now post very occasionally on breadnroses (under my real name) but only when I feel that I can contribute to their debate in a way that is "constructive".

[jbg]

All of which raises the question: what the hell is wrong with you, man? Do you have ,you know, a life?

During that period of my life, roughly 2002-4, I spent far more time on the threads than nowadays. So your point is actually a valid one.

Funny thing is I followed on of your smug links to Free dominion, aplace not known for its diversity of thought, and came across this post by member "Thomas Linner" there on the issue:

Trouble is that the various posts that I made on Rabble were hardly those of "bigots" spew(ing)... filth". Most (but not all) of the posts that I made were of serious merit.

[Argus]

From your offending post:

From the board's terms of use:

link

i think it's pretty clear why you were banned.

Uhm, what you quoted was awfully mild. What's wrong with liking to argue? Isn't that why we're all here?

Don't the "basic human rights" include freedom of speech? Apparently not on Babble.

[Mr.Canada]

Uhm, what you quoted was awfully mild. What's wrong with liking to argue? Isn't that why we're all here?

Don't the "basic human rights" include freedom of speech? Apparently not on Babble.

Argus you're banned. Oh wait we're on MLW...pheew.

If you said that on Rubble, you'd be banned.

Insane.

[Argus]

This is what you agreed to.

babble is NOT intended as a place where the basic and essential values of human rights, feminism, anti-racism, and labour rights are to be debated or refought. Members that join babble who indicate intentions to challenge these rights and principles may be seen as disruptive to the nature of the forum.

Did you and kengs abide by the forum rules that you agreed to?

I think the answer is evident.

Which "basic and essential value of human rights, feminism, anti-racism and labour fights" did he question? What ARE the basic and essential values of those political terms?

Clearly freedom of speech isn't one of them.

[Argus]

It's a progressive board. I assure you, left wingers get the same treatment from a number of prominent conservative boards.

Except different ideas are tolerated. Ideas that are antithetical to the express purpose of the board are not

You mean saying you're a Conservative is antithetical to the express purpose of the board?

Edited November 1, 2008 by Argus

[Argus]

That's what you think. Of course, it's also possible to have a forum to discuss differing opinions and share ideas with people who share the same basic values you do and not spend your time arguing with every silly asshole who thinks they have a god-given right to post whatever and wherever they please without consequence.

You can certainly have a forum reserved for people who "share the same basic values" but you ought to say so. Rabble's absurd disclaimer where you can post as long as you agree with the basic values of "human rights" for example, and "anti-racism" - how on Earth does one interpret that? I certainly believe in basic human rights but I'm damned certain their interpretation of that is wildly different from mine - or that of the Constitution, or most people on this planet. And what exactly is the basic value of anti-racism? If you're not a racist is that good enough? Of course not!

Instead of trying to use weasel words to describe their forum - because they want to pretend to some sort of noble mission - they ought to simply state openly that it's a very left wing forum reserved exclusively for those who have very left wing political beliefs, and no other beliefs will be tolerated.

[jdobbin]

If someone starts a forum about how great the New York Jets are, is it wrong if someone comes along and claims that the Winnipeg Jets are better?

Probably if the forum is about football. heh

[kimmy]

From your offending post:

From the board's terms of use:

babble is NOT intended as a place where the basic and essential values of human rights, feminism, anti-racism, and labour rights are to be debated or refought. Members that join babble who indicate intentions to challenge these rights and principles may be seen as disruptive to the nature of the forum. Such members may be warned, have their accounts suspended, or banned altogether. Repeated attempts to provoke conflict, bait or taunt will not be tolerated. Continued participation on these boards is at the sole discretion of the moderators and staff of this site.

link

i think it's pretty clear why you were banned.

I didn't see anything in Mr Canada's posts challenging human rights, feminism, anti-racism, or labour rights.

Perhaps his attempt to challenge the Rabble herd on proportional representation was viewed as provoking conflict, baiting, or taunting, but if that's their idea of taunting, then yes, they really are too thin-skinned.

My own Babble experience lasted a couple of weeks. There were some who were bright and willing to discuss different views rationally. There were others who, once they decided that you weren't part of their herd, would attack anything you wrote and create straw-man arguments and call for your banning. I banned my own ass out of there after a couple of run-ins with the moderator, and with a handful of knuckleheads who somehow thought that getting into confrontations with Kimmy was an effective means of "speaking truth to power" (or whatever it is they do.)

I did think some of the people there were nice. This was before the big Babble melt-down, so maybe the nice people all went to En Masse. I dunno.

Michelle is the worst moderator I've ever seen at a major message board. Some of the people there can say whatever the hell they want, while others get banned at a whim.

-k

[kimmy]

Mr. Canada, if it makes you feel any better, I was banned from Babble too for being too rightwing LOL

Drea... too rightwing?!! LOL

The thread was about squeegie kids deserving a Union.

:lol:

That really makes my day, Drea! Thanks for sharing that.

-k

[Black Dog]

Argus

Uhm, what you quoted was awfully mild. What's wrong with liking to argue? Isn't that why we're all here?

Different houses, different rules.

Don't the "basic human rights" include freedom of speech? Apparently not on Babble.

If you went to a private part and insulted the hosts, shit in the punch bowl and kicked the dog and were asked to leave, would that be a violation of your freedom of expression?

You can certainly have a forum reserved for people who "share the same basic values" but you ought to say so.

What part of progressive don't you understand?

Rabble's absurd disclaimer where you can post as long as you agree with the basic values of "human rights" for example, and "anti-racism" - how on Earth does one interpret that? I certainly believe in basic human rights but I'm damned certain their interpretation of that is wildly different from mine - or that of the Constitution, or most people on this planet. And what exactly is the basic value of anti-racism? If you're not a racist is that good enough? Of course not!

Instead of trying to use weasel words to describe their forum - because they want to pretend to some sort of noble mission - they ought to simply state openly that it's a very left wing forum reserved exclusively for those who have very left wing political beliefs, and no other beliefs will be tolerated.

I'm sure they would if that's the case. bu, contrary to popular belief here, there are free-market advocates, pro-Israel posters and CPC voters on rabble who were there back when i posted regularly and who are still there today, which leads me to believe its not the opinions that are the problem but the manner in which they are expressed. based on their contributions here, it's no surprise to see why jbg and Mr. Canada were turfed from the place.

kimmy

Perhaps his attempt to challenge the Rabble herd on proportional representation was viewed as provoking conflict, baiting, or taunting, but if that's their idea of taunting, then yes, they really are too thin-skinned.

You're right kimmy: it's hard to see why anyone would think "I'm here to argue with the left" would be in any way antagonistic or baiting. Shit, the guy has been here less than a month and he's already sending me annoying PMs. Clearly this is a guy who thrives on attention.

jbg

Trouble is that the various posts that I made on Rabble were hardly those of "bigots" spew(ing)... filth". Most (but not all) of the posts that I made were of serious merit.

So you say. Based on so much of your output, I'm skeptical.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Black Dog

[AngusThermopyle]

If you went to a private part and insulted the hosts, shit in the punch bowl and kicked the dog and were asked to leave, would that be a violation of your freedom of expression?

Very good point, it most certanly would not.

However the comparison does not stand the weight of scrutiny. In your example you compare going into someone's personal physical space and performing highly offensive physically demonstrable acts with the opposite side of the spectrum. That is, having the temerity to offer a diferent opinion on an internet discussion board. There is no logical comparisson that can be made between the two acts.

If they are so concerned about talking to others who might have an opinion differing from theirs they should just post a big readily discernable disclaimer that states the fact that its a semi private club and any who enter must agree or be booted.

Of all people to defend this one sided stifling attitude you're are the last one I would have expected to do so. I can't even remember the amount of times you've spoken about the right to freedom of expression and the importance of dissenting views. Yet on this subject you appear to be staunchly opposed to those very principles.

It can not be disputed that their rules are their rules. What can be disputed is the point that their rules make the entire site worthless unless you simply want to indulge in some form of collective auto masturbation of the individual ego. That being the case: what is the point of such a forum?

The bottom line is. If you start an internet discussion board you should expect some dissenting opinions, that is if you actually want to hear from people who might want to talk about what you are discussing. If you actually don't want to hear opinions from others that may disagree with your own then restrict membership to the forum. Don't invite people to join unless they agree to go along with the rest of the members and the mods. Make it clear that individual opinions are forbidden and no such nonsense will be permitted.

One thing I can assure you of is the fact that I wouldn't waste a second of my time on such a piece of one sided mutual stroking.

[jbg]

Which "basic and essential value of human rights, feminism, anti-racism and labour fights" did he question? What ARE the basic and essential values of those political terms?

Clearly freedom of speech isn't one of them.

This thread (link) got me banned on DailyKos (link).

The offending comment was:

Obama and his friends pull no punches in describing McCain as "out of touch". In fact, no one is more "out of touch" than Barack Obama". To him, small-town, middle class Americans are a bitter, gun-wielding people. He has disdain for those who put their hands on their heart during the "pledge of allegiance". For him, America is a land within 30 miles of the southern tip of Lake Michigan, and within 30 miles of the Atlantic (north of the Delmarva Peninsula only) and within 30 miles of the Pacific.

This

disgrace

man should not be President, as we will learn in the debates shortly.

DailyKos is Rabble America.

[Guest American Woman]

This thread (link) got me banned on DailyKos (link).

The offending comment was:

Obama and his friends pull no punches in describing McCain as "out of touch". In fact, no one is more "out of touch" than Barack Obama". To him, small-town, middle class Americans are a bitter, gun-wielding people. He has disdain for those who put their hands on their heart during the "pledge of allegiance". For him, America is a land within 30 miles of the southern tip of Lake Michigan, and within 30 miles of the Atlantic (north of the Delmarva Peninsula only) and within 30 miles of the Pacific.

This

disgrace

man should not be President, as we will learn in the debates shortly.

Your post wasn't true. I don't blame people for being tired of having to waste their time refuting lies like that or responding to posts like "Mr. Canada's" saying many on the left don't work and never will because then they can't protest with "urban terror group(s)" like OCAP. I can understand why they would want to discuss how best to deal with issues that they feel are important rather than waste their time refuting such nonsense or convincing people who'll never listen/change their minds that the issues they find important ARE important. That's not their goal. They know what they find important and that's what they'd like to discuss. I think we have to waste an awful lot of time refuting lies/nonsense on this board, refuting people who like nothing better than to antagonize those who don't agree with them, and that, along with having to see Obama referred to as "Hussein" and "

Osama

" along with similar childish nonsense is why I don't waste/spend much time here any more.

Edited November 2, 2008 by American Woman

[myata]

Aren't there more meaningful moral topics left anymore? I went to rabble to piss off some lefties and was kicked out in a flash. Sniff. No justice in the world. The sky is falling. Apocalypse, now. Sniff.

[Argus]

Argus

Different houses, different rules.

Yes, this one permits disagreement. That one does not.

If you went to a private part and insulted the hosts, shit in the punch bowl and kicked the dog and were asked to leave, would that be a violation of your freedom of expression?

A better comparison would be my going into the house, and asking for coke instead of pepsi, and being thrown out solely on that basis.

What part of progressive don't you understand?

Does the site state that only those with "progressive" views on all topics can post? Does it define what it considers to be progressive?

I'm sure they would if that's the case. bu, contrary to popular belief here, there are free-market advocates, pro-Israel posters and CPC voters on rabble who were there back when i posted regularly and who are still there today, which leads me to believe its not the opinions that are the problem but the manner in which they are expressed.

Apparently you're quite mistaken, as almost everyone here seems to have been banned there at one time or another. There are very few Canadian political discussion forums so it's unsurprising that some with centre or centre right views would mistakenly wander in there and think they're allowed to express an opinion. Perhaps if the site posted very clearly that Judy Rebick was one of the co-founders people would be more likely to understand that anything other than far left views would create hysteria and outrage among the inhabitants.

[Argus]

They know what they find important and that's what they'd like to discuss. I think we have to waste an awful lot of time refuting lies/nonsense on this board, refuting people who like nothing better than to antagonize those who don't agree with them, and that, along with having to see Obama referred to as "Hussein" and "Osama" along with similar childish nonsense is why I don't waste/spend much time here any more.

I'm sure you'll be happier on Rabble, where no one will really disagree with anything you say - except they'll hate your guts, of course, if you dare to use the same nic.

Myself, I like dissenting opinions and views. I didn't stay long at Freedominion precisely because there weren't enough people there to argue with.

[Sir Bandelot]

I agree its healthy to have real debate. The problem is this always invites trolls and flamers. If the debates degenerate into childish pissing matches, I too get turned off. I'd like to discuss real issues, not argue with kids about silliness. And some are only practicing their arguing skills, they don't necessarily believe what they are saying. Those communications are counter-productive in my view and could make valuable members lose interest, to the detriment of a forum. But that is the constant struggle whenever we allow free speech.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[jbg]

I'm sure you'll be happier on Rabble, where no one will really disagree with anything you say - except they'll hate your guts, of course, if you dare to use the same nic.

Myself, I like dissenting opinions and views. I didn't stay long at Freedominion precisely because there weren't enough people there to argue with.

I agree. For those interested, this is the link to Rabble (link). I proved to be too liberal for FD, after almost two and one-half good years there. Edited November 2, 2008 by jbg

[Mr.Canada]

Shit, the guy has been here less than a month and he's already sending me annoying PMs. Clearly this is a guy who thrives on attention.

You've been here five years and this is how you respond to newcomer? By cussing at them? We have a real diplomat here guys/gals. This Black Dog's idea of intelligent conversation.

Typical left-wing discussion tactics. If the opposing person starts to actually win an argument or you say something that isn't socialist the left winger will either move to kick you out or attempt to discredit you by calling you a fascist or some other nonsense.

As an employee of a major union I am accustomed to these tactics(I'm one of the only CPC supporters btw, as far as office staff go), it drives them crazy when facts and sound argument are presented to them. It drives them even crazier when one doesn't get all upset back at them when they are puffing out their chests like pigeons and cussing like school kids. Watch for it from some members of the left, it's actually quite entertaining and yet incredibly predictable.

How unoriginal.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[Guest American Woman]

I'm sure you'll be happier on Rabble, where no one will really disagree with anything you say - except they'll hate your guts, of course, if you dare to use the same nic.

Myself, I like dissenting opinions and views. I didn't stay long at Freedominion precisely because there weren't enough people there to argue with.

And I'm sure you're wrong. If I would be happier at Rabble, I would have registered there instead of here. I like intelligent dissenting opinions and views; which should have been clear from my previous post in this thread. I agree with Sir Bandelot-- it's the childish silliness, along with the posting of lies/purposely completely misrepresenting what someone has said and/or done soley for the purpose of antagonizing, that keeps people who are interested in intelligent, adult-level discussion/debate away. Unless you think calling Barack Obama "Osama" or "Hussein Obama" is intelligent discussion-- and you think posters making stuff up about candidates they don't agree with is simply "disagreeing with what say?"

Like Sir Bandalot, I, too, would like to discuss real issues-- and I'd like to do it honestly, adult-to-adult.

But believe me, if I do ever decide to try posting there instead of here, it'll be with the name I registered under after reading this thread since I thought I had to register in order to see the whole board-- which is AmericanWoman.