Nationalized daycare

fellowtraveller · October 30, 2008

Lets sit back and immagine. To have 3 kids we need...
- A big house. Not a 1250 sq. ft. semi that costs $400,000 all because immigrants come here, buy homes, and drive up housing prices. The house should have a huge, massive yard, large inside, huge kitchen and lots of space for the whole family. Something like this:

http://www.move2raleigh.com/images/779471%20copy.jpg

This home is 3700 sq. ft. and sold for $274,900 in NC. Ah yes.. maybe that's one of the reason why North Carolin'ins have more kids. Think that could be?

- Good pay. A degree should garuntee you an above average, white collar job. Same with diploma.

WTF???

Neither of those have much to do with having children.

The main ingredient to 'having children' is to change that mindset to "being a parent". What is required is your personal and unwavering commitment to care for that child faiithfully and well for at least a couple of decades, and to put aside selfish nonsense like owning a big house.

PoliticalCitizen · October 30, 2008

My wife wants another but I turned 50 this month...

Congratulations! You're all grown up now

BTW, it's still safe to have kids for men in their 50's

PoliticalCitizen · October 30, 2008

Why don't we have more kids?

Being an immigrant I can still simpatize with this question - we're struggling paying $800+ / month for a part-time (3 days / week) daycare for our kid.

Of course your slur against immigrants only shows how limited you are...

But your idea of nationalized daycare - I'm for it 110%.

I'd like to have 4 kids. My wife sais we can't afford even the second...

The only feasible choice is to try to make more money... which is kind of hard, especially now when people are losing jobs - I'd be happy just to be able to keep my current one...

I heard Quebec has $5 / day daycare available... not bad for a have-not province... if this is true - we're screwed twice over because we can't afford kids while sponsoring them in another province...

Drea · October 30, 2008

I said there were studies which suggested this, not that it influences me directly.

People don't have children with the thought "We don't have enough workers in this country so me and the Mrs. are gonna make some!"

So immigration really does not affect whether or not Canada has a low birth rate.

We have a low birth rate because it is expensive and stressful to raise children (and rewarding of course, but I cannot see how raising ten would be any more rewarding than raising two -- lots more stress for the same reward??)

PoliticalCitizen · October 30, 2008

Why should the Canadian government spend any money on nationalized daycare? They just increase the country's population through immigration. This way some other country gets to spend the money raising and educating those soon-to-be Canadian citizens. Isn't life grand?

I've been saying that for a while...

Sir Bandelot · October 30, 2008

I said there were studies which suggested this, not that it influences me directly. I forgive you for the mistake, however. I'm guessing moving your finger across the screen and sounding out every syllable as you read can have a poor effect on comprehension.

Ahahaha.

Aww, that hurts...

You know I'm getting it if my lips are moving!

wulf42 · October 30, 2008

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW TO STOP THIS SLOW KILLING OF THE CANADIAN DREAM.

Your too late.................the Liberals let all the rift raff in.................now were screwed...the Canada you and i knew is gone likely forever!

wulf42 · October 30, 2008

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW TO STOP THIS SLOW KILLING OF THE CANADIAN DREAM.

Your too late.................the Liberals let all the rift raff in.................now were screwed...the Canada you and i knew is gone likely forever!

wulf42 · October 30, 2008

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW TO STOP THIS SLOW KILLING OF THE CANADIAN DREAM.

Your too late.................the Liberals let all the rift raff in.................now were screwed...the Canada you and i knew is gone likely forever!

PoliticalCitizen · October 31, 2008

Your too late.................the Liberals let all the rift raff in.................now were screwed...the Canada you and i knew is gone likely forever!

Apparently you could be OK if you move to Halton Hills, together with Mr.C and md00

Should I post this 3 times too or you're gonna get it on the first try?

Riverwind · October 31, 2008

Being an immigrant I can still simpatize with this question - we're struggling paying $800+ / month for a part-time (3 days / week) daycare for our kid.

Low birthrates are a direct consequence of employement opportunities for women. You are 'struggling' to pay daycare because you don't want to give up one income.

I'd like to have 4 kids. My wife sais we can't afford even the second...

You can't afford 4 kids because of the the expectations of a weathly society which push parents to spend on everything from new clothes to sports teams. The cost of raising additional kids is minimal if one only looks at the cost of feeding and housing them.

wulf42 · October 31, 2008

Apparently you could be OK if you move to Halton Hills, together with Mr.C and md00
Should I post this 3 times too or you're gonna get it on the first try?

lol....this was done in error..my computer was locking up i thought it only went through once.

Drea · October 31, 2008

Low birthrates are a direct consequence of employement opportunities for women. You are 'struggling' to pay daycare because you don't want to give up one income.

Women today have choices. Many of us choose less children and more wealth. IMO it's better to raise one or two children properly, than to raise ten and barely be able to feed them.

I have one child and have easily saved enough for him to attain post secondary education. If I had four kids and just hubby's income how would we choose who gets to go to university and who doesn't?

I do not apologize for driving a nice car or my new $10,000 kitchen. Hubby and I have worked hard to build what we have. The world would not be a "better" place if we had chosen to have tons of children, nor would we be better off. On the contrary.... we would be a net drain on society.

You can't afford 4 kids because of the the expectations of a weathly society which push parents to spend on everything from new clothes to sports teams. The cost of raising additional kids is minimal if one only looks at the cost of feeding and housing them.

I simply expect parents to be able to adequately feed, clothe and educate their children.

When I was growing up a family down the road had seven kids. The mom of course, stayed home. They had a daugher my age and she was not allowed to eat after school. We'd get off the bus starving and not be allowed to eat! I cannot imagine not being able to allow my child food when they are hungry.

But hey, this is just my opinion. Some folks may believe being hungry "toughens up" a child... who knows?

OddSox · October 31, 2008

When I was growing up a family down the road had seven kids. The mom of course, stayed home. They had a daugher my age and she was not allowed to eat after school. We'd get off the bus starving and not be allowed to eat! I cannot imagine not being able to allow my child food when they are hungry.

Perhaps she was allowed a snack when she didn't bring half the neighbourhood kids over! It's one thing to feed your own kids, it's a total different ball game to feed all their friends as well. Besides, it builds character.

In any case, the main reason that wealthier societies have fewer children is that the children are no longer a potential asset, but an expense. In societies which have lower incomes, children are seen as a hedge against the future - once they're big enough they can contribute to the family, both in income from outside jobs and in household chores.

M.Dancer · October 31, 2008

Our kids get a snack after school only if dinner is going to be late. Otherwise they can wait the hour and a half for dinner and then we can be sure they won;t complain that they aren't hungry.

Drea · October 31, 2008

Our kids get a snack after school only if dinner is going to be late. Otherwise they can wait the hour and a half for dinner and then we can be sure they won;t complain that they aren't hungry.

It was me and her (two twelve year olds, not even allowed a pbj sandwich. But there was lots of empty beercases....) :rolleyes:

My kid gets home at 3:15... dinner is at 6pm. So usually grabs a pbj or piece of fruit or two.

He has hollow legs LOL

Food is not negotiable IMO... if kid is hungry, kid should be able to eat.

Oleg Bach · October 31, 2008

What we should be going for is NOT more soviet style day care - but to create a system of real choice economically and socially - where a parent is allowed to raise their own children (father or mother) - Layton goes on about day care - it reminds me of someone saying - we need more cells to house our children and to "socialize' them. When in fact we need more freedom - Not to create a bureacracy of parasitic "early childhood learning jerks.......Let mother be mothers and let us adjust our life styles to bring back real parental care - not state care - or animal husbandry of our women under the guise of feminst choice.

Argus · October 31, 2008

It was me and her (two twelve year olds, not even allowed a pbj sandwich. But there was lots of empty beercases....)
My kid gets home at 3:15... dinner is at 6pm. So usually grabs a pbj or piece of fruit or two.

He has hollow legs LOL

Food is not negotiable IMO... if kid is hungry, kid should be able to eat.

Which is where fat kids come into the picture.

Argus · October 31, 2008

People don't have children with the thought "We don't have enough workers in this country so me and the Mrs. are gonna make some!"
So immigration really does not affect whether or not Canada has a low birth rate.

We have a low birth rate because it is expensive and stressful to raise children (and rewarding of course, but I cannot see how raising ten would be any more rewarding than raising two -- lots more stress for the same reward??)

Big families can be their own reward. I never met anyone from a large family who wished he had been raised an only child.

Renegade · October 31, 2008

Big families can be their own reward. I never met anyone from a large family who wished he had been raised an only child.

But did you ask their parents to see if maybe, given tthe opportunity, would they have had fewer kids?

Renegade · October 31, 2008

What we should be going for is NOT more soviet style day care - but to create a system of real choice economically and socially - where a parent is allowed to raise their own children (father or mother) - Layton goes on about day care - it reminds me of someone saying - we need more cells to house our children and to "socialize' them. When in fact we need more freedom - Not to create a bureacracy of parasitic "early childhood learning jerks.......Let mother be mothers and let us adjust our life styles to bring back real parental care - not state care - or animal husbandry of our women under the guise of feminst choice.

Oleg, I wish I could make sense of what you are saying, but as usual it befuddles me.

What freedom do you need? Parents are free to have as many or as few kids as they want. The limitiations are not imposed by govenment but rather by the parents own ability to clothe, feed, house and care for their kids.

madmax · October 31, 2008

Our kids get a snack after school only if dinner is going to be late. Otherwise they can wait the hour and a half for dinner and then we can be sure they won;t complain that they aren't hungry.

I am reporting you for abuse.

mikedavid00 · November 1, 2008

Parents are free to have as many or as few kids as they want. The limitiations are not imposed by govenment but rather by the parents own ability to clothe, feed, house and care for their kids.

Bingo.

That was my point.

The 3rd world has their reasons for having many kids. But in the first world it's a bit different. Eastern Europe have very low birth rates with some countries actually shrinking in population.

Have you seen how these people have been living? How many kids do you expect people to raise in a 800 sq. ft. flat and no car?

And those here saying they only want 1-2 kids.. do you really think you would want that if you lived in a house like this?

http://www.exotictravelplans.com/images/mansion_logo_new.jpg

I'm not sayign any of you can't afford kids. You all can. I'm suggesting that you can't raise them they way YOU WANT or in COMFORT.

We're a Canadian couple who are trying to survive in the private sector, non unionized. We cant' spend 4 years out of work. We have no parental help here. We don't know who is going to help us.

We're planning on getting a Filipino NANNY when we have kids if the price is right. Why? Because we can't afford to be away from work that long and daycare is wild expensive.

blueblood · November 1, 2008

Bingo.
That was my point.

The 3rd world has their reasons for having many kids. But in the first world it's a bit different. Eastern Europe have very low birth rates with some countries actually shrinking in population.

Have you seen how these people have been living? How many kids do you expect people to raise in a 800 sq. ft. flat and no car?

And those here saying they only want 1-2 kids.. do you really think you would want that if you lived in a house like this?

http://www.exotictravelplans.com/images/mansion_logo_new.jpg

I'm not sayign any of you can't afford kids. You all can. I'm suggesting that you can't raise them they way YOU WANT or in COMFORT.

We're a Canadian couple who are trying to survive in the private sector, non unionized. We cant' spend 4 years out of work. We have no parental help here. We don't know who is going to help us.

We're planning on getting a Filipino NANNY when we have kids if the price is right. Why? Because we can't afford to be away from work that long and daycare is wild expensive.

times must be tough for you to dip in the immigrant pool. Sask. premier brad wall has been walking around Toronto looking for workers in SK. Lots of jobs there, and very few immigrants there. You'll be in paradise.

Argus · November 1, 2008

But did you ask their parents to see if maybe, given tthe opportunity, would they have had fewer kids?

No, but I know a lot of families looking after their aged parents, now. Generally they'll move in with the kid who has the biggest house, who is doing well, is settled and comfortable, and who is the more generous and patient. Now that the average family consists of 1 or at best 2 children, how many of their parents are going to find that their single child is willing and able to support and care for them - assuming the single child survives to the days when his or her parents are 80 odd years old and can't take care of themselves any more. If you've got 8 kids, chances are one will be willing to take care of you - especially as the others will chip in. But if you've just got the one.... hello government nursing home.