Nationalized daycare

[Renegade]

I'm not sayign any of you can't afford kids. You all can. I'm suggesting that you can't raise them they way YOU WANT or in COMFORT.

Isn' t this exactly the point. It is all about trade-offs. If you can't afford both kids and comfort you need to choose between them.

[Renegade]

No, but I know a lot of families looking after their aged parents, now. Generally they'll move in with the kid who has the biggest house, who is doing well, is settled and comfortable, and who is the more generous and patient. Now that the average family consists of 1 or at best 2 children, how many of their parents are going to find that their single child is willing and able to support and care for them - assuming the single child survives to the days when his or her parents are 80 odd years old and can't take care of themselves any more.

All true, in addition there is less soceital expectation that kids are obligated to look after aged parents.

If you've got 8 kids, chances are one will be willing to take care of you - especially as the others will chip in. But if you've just got the one.... hello government nursing home.

I've heard estimates of $100K to bring up each child. If a parent's aim is to be taken off when they are older, they may be better off using the money they would spend on raising kids, toward saving for their retirement.

[Argus]

All true, in addition there is less soceital expectation that kids are obligated to look after aged parents.

I've heard estimates of $100K to bring up each child. If a parent's aim is to be taken off when they are older, they may be better off using the money they would spend on raising kids, toward saving for their retirement.

I'd like to know how you spend an extra $5,000 per year on one child - especially if you take into account things like child tax credits and various benefit programs. I think such estimates ignore tax writeoffs, and assume that, without children, the couple would live in a 1 bedroom apartment somewhere. And in all likelihood, whatever extra disposable income a couple would have without children would be spent on holidays, bigger cars, and more consumer junk anyway.

[Renegade]

I'd like to know how you spend an extra $5,000 per year on one child - especially if you take into account things like child tax credits and various benefit programs. I think such estimates ignore tax writeoffs, and assume that, without children, the couple would live in a 1 bedroom apartment somewhere. And in all likelihood, whatever extra disposable income a couple would have without children would be spent on holidays, bigger cars, and more consumer junk anyway.

$100K doesn't seem an unreasonable estimate to me. I easly spend at least $10K or more per year for mine. Between afterschool care, tutoring, various activiites, vacations, clothing, food, etc. That is not even counting the incremental cost of housing and utilities.

[guyser]

The 3rd world has their reasons for having many kids.

It doesnt rain?

http://www.exotictravelplans.com/images/mansion_logo_new.jpg

1-that house is worth $1M+

2-think how many immigrant families could live in there. Why, 8 comes to mind.

We don't know who is going to help us.

only heavan brother only heaven

We're planning on getting a Filipino NANNY when we have kids if the price is right.

You are a bit thick aren't you?

Rail ad naseum that immigrants wreck Canada-and now you want to hire one.

[Brunopolis]

$100K doesn't seem an unreasonable estimate to me. I easly spend at least $10K or more per year for mine. Between afterschool care, tutoring, various activiites, vacations, clothing, food, etc. That is not even counting the incremental cost of housing and utilities.

I think he's refering to the "base" cost of raising a child. Still who here wants to raise a child like that? When I plan to have my own children I definitely want to have them to be in all sorts of activities beyond school. Having them learn to play the guitar, be able to kick a soccer ball half decently, or even speak a second/third language will help them in the future.

Personally, think the point in life is to be happy and have fun. Making sure your kid grows up with tons of hobbies and a busy schedule is a great way to help him or her in this.

[Renegade]

I think he's refering to the "base" cost of raising a child. Still who here wants to raise a child like that? When I plan to have my own children I definitely want to have them to be in all sorts of activities beyond school. Having them learn to play the guitar, be able to kick a soccer ball half decently, or even speak a second/third language will help them in the future.

Personally, think the point in life is to be happy and have fun. Making sure your kid grows up with tons of hobbies and a busy schedule is a great way to help him or her in this.

Even if you take away the frills the base cost of raising a child is pretty substantial. This US govt estimate pegs the number at $204,060 for middle-income families. IMV a parent has certain obligations to provide for his child beyond the bare essentials. It is amazing to me that some parents don't have a clue of the financial responsilbity the are signing up for.

[RB]

Why don't we have more kids?

............

How many kids would you have? Be honest.

- I think finances is the number one issue why we don't have more kids

- Support initially from the partners for maybe 6 months, then it becomes a woman's burden

- For selfish reasons, it is not worth it, it is better to remain childless

- Societal values and moral values have changed. Men and women can now enjoy their freedom, insatiable appetites, and hop from one partner to the next while on the watch out for something new. This is THE acceptable way of life.

- Though it needs some adjustments - there is something about the Muslims core moral values. Something that is finer in modesty, the control of passions and desires, truthfulness, integrity, patience, steadfastness and look the Muslim families are reproducing 3 or more times than the Canadians.

You want to produce more kids, then folks you have to start bringing up kids that have values and morals they can own, and not bring up a generations acting out TV's sex and the city.

[Brunopolis]

- I think finances is the number one issue why we don't have more kids

- Support initially from the partners for maybe 6 months, then it becomes a woman's burden

- For selfish reasons, it is not worth it, it is better to remain childless

- Societal values and moral values have changed. Men and women can now enjoy their freedom, insatiable appetites, and hop from one partner to the next while on the watch out for something new. This is THE acceptable way of life.

- Though it needs some adjustments - there is something about the Muslims core moral values. Something that is finer in modesty, the control of passions and desires, truthfulness, integrity, patience, steadfastness and look the Muslim families are reproducing 3 or more times than the Canadians.

You want to produce more kids, then folks you have to start bringing up kids that have values and morals they can own, and not bring up a generations acting out TV's sex and the city.

Finances, education, and climate are the top reasons we don't have many children.

-Educated people in general have less children. This is a fact.

-Financially and due to regulations you actually have to care for your children to some degree. Unlike in many 3rd world countries children cost money rather than make it.

-Our climate makes sure that during 4-5 months of the year that child will be in the house a good portion of the time. It's tough to have many children in a small apartment and you can't really have them play outside all day. My half-sister in Uruguay has 5 children and because the weather is sub-tropical she can have them outside all year long making it much easier to take of. I can't imagine her deciding to have that many children here in Canada.

If we want people to have more children we simply have to remove some of these burdens on our population. Obviously we don't want to make our population less educated and we can't really change the climate. So realistically the solution would be financial. Increase the benefits for parents that have children until we reach the growth rate we're aiming for. Without a doubt it would be hideously expensive.

Norway does it and it seems to work for them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4786160.stm

[RB]

There is so many factors that affect population growth including the ones you mentioned

-The rise of "woman's power" has a lot to do with less children and more gathering of wealth, mean less children means more wealth

- also movements away from Catholic Church's social influence means less children

- test that identify the sex of children for selection

- male and female homosexuality

You mentioned Norway has incentives to increase children. Corporate Japan offers $$ to have a second child, other countries give an official day off work to have sex and bonus incentives if it results in children.

You can go on with varying solutions, say we do have a good stable health care system that takes care of the old, get rid of it and watch how many folks will be making children for soical security sake, to compensate looking after them in the old age.

Then think about how you do incorporate a social paradigm shift in a country to encourage 2 or 3 kids per family, that comes with responsibilities of children and less dependance on governments.

Or maybe we can simply rely on the nature has a way theory.

[Oleg Bach]

If you are wondering why there is a low birth rate it is because their has been a socially engineered wedge driven between the sexes. This has been going on for the last 25 years. Woman are now taught that men are recreational and men are afraid of these types. Also with same sex marriage being pushed into the mind of the young as a genuine time tested tradition and institution - Young people will forget what real marriage and mating are about. This will change will come to completion within on generation. Gayification has not been helpful either nor has proud and stupifed man hating lesbianism. As far as day care is concerned, it is also responsible for the de-feminization and de-masculinization of humans beings in this nation. It has had the effect of destroying the role of the mother as well as father....so we just are not very good at this point when it comes to natural survival - test tube babies raised by the state is not that far away.