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The New Pentagon Papers


Black Dog

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A high-ranking military officer reveals how Defense Department extremists suppressed information and twisted the truth to drive the country to war.

we are told by our president and neoconservative mouthpieces that our sons and daughters, husbands and wives are in Iraq fighting for freedom, for liberty, for justice and American values. This cost is not borne by the children of Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld and Cheney. Bush's daughters do not pay this price. We are told that intelligence has failed America, and that President Bush is determined to get to the bottom of it. Yet not a single neoconservative appointee has lost his job, and no high official of principle in the administration has formally resigned because of this ill-planned and ill-conceived war and poorly implemented occupation of Iraq.

Will Americans hold U.S. policymakers accountable? Will we return to our roots as a republic, constrained and deliberate, respectful of others? My experience in the Pentagon leading up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq tells me, as Ben Franklin warned, we may have already failed. But if Americans at home are willing to fight -- tenaciously and courageously -- to preserve our republic, we might be able to keep it.

The Bush administration is run, not on sound policy grounded in reality, but by an almost religious devotion to ideaology, perpetuated by a small cabal of appointees and puppetmasters whose goal is nothing short of acheiving total military, economic and political dominance by whatever means necessary.

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The Bush administration is run, not on sound policy grounded in reality, but by an almost religious devotion to ideaology, perpetuated by a small cabal of appointees and puppetmasters whose goal is nothing short of acheiving total military, economic and political dominance by whatever means necessary.

Yeah, you sound just like Kwiatkowski. Black helicopter conspiracy theories.

I regarded my military vocation as interesting, rewarding and apolitical.
The first two I have no doubt, but the latter is utterly laughable. This entire five page letter is an eloquent rant by a woman pretending to be an insider who clearly has an ideological axe to grind. She provides no evidence that intelligence was altered or fabricated, but only her staunch opposition to the perfectly sane ideas reflected in the Project for a New American Century. I think she was just a liberal advocating wrong headed foreign policy who was told to screw off when the change of leadership occured.

The article is interesting but completely biased.

I found one part I almost agreed with:

the real reasons for occupation of Iraq -- more bases from which to flex U.S. muscle with Syria and Iran, and better positioning for the inevitable fall of the regional ruling sheikdoms. Maintaining OPEC on a dollar track and not a euro
Include in there suspected WMDs, human rights violations, and state sponsored terrorism and that about sums it up.

I'm sorry, but I don't think a letter written by one disgruntled former military officer is the smoking gun your looking for. I won't listen to the accusations being thrown around until a hear them coming from a bi-partisan commission.

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A high-ranking military officer reveals how Defense Department extremists suppressed information and twisted the truth to drive the country to war.
we are told by our president and neoconservative mouthpieces that our sons and daughters, husbands and wives are in Iraq fighting for freedom, for liberty, for justice and American values. This cost is not borne by the children of Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld and Cheney. Bush's daughters do not pay this price. We are told that intelligence has failed America, and that President Bush is determined to get to the bottom of it. Yet not a single neoconservative appointee has lost his job, and no high official of principle in the administration has formally resigned because of this ill-planned and ill-conceived war and poorly implemented occupation of Iraq.

Will Americans hold U.S. policymakers accountable? Will we return to our roots as a republic, constrained and deliberate, respectful of others? My experience in the Pentagon leading up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq tells me, as Ben Franklin warned, we may have already failed. But if Americans at home are willing to fight -- tenaciously and courageously -- to preserve our republic, we might be able to keep it.

The Bush administration is run, not on sound policy grounded in reality, but by an almost religious devotion to ideaology, perpetuated by a small cabal of appointees and puppetmasters whose goal is nothing short of acheiving total military, economic and political dominance by whatever means necessary.

Who's this high-ranking eye-witness? I missed his name....

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This cost is not borne by the children of Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld and Cheney. Bush's daughters do not pay this price.

And it is not borne by the professors at MIT either. Like get with the program here! It is borne by young, strong men and women who have vowed to stand by their country right or wrong. This is such bullshit that it can only come form a rabid rhetorical leftist, not a thinking rational being who has vowed to protect their country and carry out the orders of their commander in chief. Hence, a non soldier. . To add such drivel to what is supposed to be a valid point is crap,

Yet not a single neoconservative appointee has lost his job

LOL. Guess there's a lot of that going around, Rockerfeller still has his after being found to be hiding intelligence information that endangered the troops so that he could backstab Bush. How about Kerry voting against the bill that would buy protective vests for the boys?

Will Americans hold U.S. policymakers accountable?

Man, I can hardly wait fo r the election. Maybe these people will shut up once the US people either endorse Bush and his decisions or else let the Democrats explain why they are still in Iraq. At least we might have some normal political discussion happening.

the real reasons for occupation of Iraq -- more bases from which to flex U.S. muscle with Syria and Iran, and better positioning for the inevitable fall of the regional ruling sheikdoms. Maintaining OPEC on a dollar track and not a euro

I agreed with this one Right, I also would add to build a democraticly elected government that would work for the people and give them an opportunity to have a life free from tyranny. Hopefully give them a reason not to put on a belt bomb. I suppose that living without hope, watching your kids grow up as virtual slaves is a reason not to blame the US for not takeing action?

puppetmasters

This was written by somebody with a sandwhich board jamming their back side. Not a real person who has endured hardship, seen the horrors of battle. It is filled with idealogical rhythm and rant that has no actual bearing on reality and plays so heavily on emotion and passion that if there is any reality therre, it is obscured.

Come to think of it, why the hell am I even replying to it? Damm! Got me again.

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this was teh guy who wrote the article:

In July of last year, after just over 20 years of service, I retired as a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force. I had served as a communications officer in the field and in acquisition programs, as a speechwriter for the National Security Agency director, and on the Headquarters Air Force and the office of the secretary of defense staffs covering African affairs. I had completed Air Command and Staff College and Navy War College seminar programs, two master's degrees, and everything but my Ph.D. dissertation in world politics at Catholic University. I regarded my military vocation as interesting, rewarding and apolitical. My career started in 1978 with the smooth seduction of a full four-year ROTC scholarship. It ended with 10 months of duty in a strange new country, observing up close and personal a process of decision making for war not sanctioned by the Constitution we had all sworn to uphold.

if having a lifetime of experience makes you biased then nobody is an expert on anything.

this guy pretty much writes with authority on what is obvious to anybody with a half functioning brain. Bush lied about WMDs. he lied about 9/11 links. and he lied about caring about iraq civilians. this is not news this is obvious.

the anger from some military people is pretty understandable since all they probably want is to be able to trust the reasons they have to fight. if i was fighting in that kind of war, i would like to be able to trust in the reason for war too. its human nature.

frankly its pretty dumb to ignore the fact that retireing career soldiers have little if anything to gain from voiceing thier anger while the current US gov has everything to gain from carrying the official line. money, power, influence, ideology, and political success makes people lie. a front line solider pointing out he had to fill out a survey in order to get in on a photo op with bush doesnt have any real reason to lie comparied to politicians

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules...article&sid=668

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f having a lifetime of experience makes you biased then nobody is an expert on anything.

Like I said, MIT. He was a prof without a goatee Riff. When I was Airborne we would look at these 'LEG' staff officers who came in on a tour from HQ with pity. They didn't even have the shmick to bring a canteen cup to grap a coffee with half the time, they were so out of touch with what was happening on the ground. We didn't even bother to adress them as they had no power or ability to deal with our world as theirs was far away and not based on the reality of what was the root reality They belonged up with the planners and all, like where this guy evolved from. And that's where theyall returned to after their little 'field trips.'

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this was teh guy who wrote the article:
In July of last year, after just over 20 years of service, I retired as a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force. I had served as a communications officer in the field and in acquisition programs, as a speechwriter for the National Security Agency director, and on the Headquarters Air Force and the office of the secretary of defense staffs covering African affairs. I had completed Air Command and Staff College and Navy War College seminar programs, two master's degrees, and everything but my Ph.D. dissertation in world politics at Catholic University. I regarded my military vocation as interesting, rewarding and apolitical. My career started in 1978 with the smooth seduction of a full four-year ROTC scholarship. It ended with 10 months of duty in a strange new country, observing up close and personal a process of decision making for war not sanctioned by the Constitution we had all sworn to uphold.

His name was not given anywhere in the article then?

I haven't read the newspapers in two days so I don't know if this is already news....wow, an expose' like this ought to be big! Is it in the newspapers already?

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Actually there is WMD, yet our government officials are not certain if before the war that Saddam moved the WMD to Iran, Jordan, or any other neighboring country. If you liberals get your head out of your butt, then you would know to support our troops no matter what hardship they face. I don't see you out there fighting a war to help establish democracy, find WMD, and rid of a tyrant ruler. Saddam is a threat to our society because after the Gulf War he vowed vegenace against our nation. Also they have found a few planes there in Iraq and terrorists training sites.

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whoknows,

The fact that Bush misled everyone on pre-emptive strike against Iraq....we were told that we knew where the WMD were, blah, blah, blah.

His credibility is gone, especially when you look at all of these other lies and promises.

It's time for new leadership to restore some credibility and start over with a new 4 years.

Let's face it, Bush didn't get the job done and it doesn't look like he was up for it.

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Yeah, you sound just like Kwiatkowski. Black helicopter conspiracy theories.

So you don't have a rebuttal? The PNAC and neocon influenc eon this administration is hardly the stuff of the X-Files. It's right there in front of you, but you're too blind by your own idealogy to see it.

erfectly sane ideas reflected in the Project for a New American Century.

Well that's the end of that conversation.

And it is not borne by the professors at MIT either. Like get with the program here! It is borne by young, strong men and women who have vowed to stand by their country right or wrong. This is such bullshit that it can only come form a rabid rhetorical leftist, not a thinking rational being who has vowed to protect their country and carry out the orders of their commander in chief. Hence, a non soldier. . To add such drivel to what is supposed to be a valid point is crap,

Again, anything to counter the accusations or are you just gonna shoot the messanger? Never mind, I already know the answer.

Man, I can hardly wait fo r the election. Maybe these people will shut up once the US people either endorse Bush and his decisions or else let the Democrats explain why they are still in Iraq. At least we might have some normal political discussion happening.

I'm still waiting for the political discussion to start, but no one here seems interested in arguing the points.

This was written by somebody with a sandwhich board jamming their back side. Not a real person who has endured hardship, seen the horrors of battle. It is filled with idealogical rhythm and rant that has no actual bearing on reality and plays so heavily on emotion and passion that if there is any reality therre, it is obscured.

This was written by someone with their head jammed up their backside. Not a real person who has endured hardship, nor seen the horrors of battle. It is blinded by idealogy that has no bearing on reality and plays so heavily on denial, obfuscation, and dogma that hides the utter lack of bearing on reality.

Actually there is WMD, yet our government officials are not certain if before the war that Saddam moved the WMD to Iran, Jordan, or any other neighboring country.

Really? And how did he pull this off without anyone noticing? (Oh, and I dunno if you are aware of this, but Iran and Iraq were, like, enemies?) As for "government officials", do you mean guys like the head of the inspection program, David Kay?

"I'm personally convinced that there were not large stockpiles of newly produced weapons of mass destruction. We don't find the people, the documents or the physical plants that you would expect to find if the production was going on." -David kay in the New York Times, Jan. 26, 2004
If you liberals get your head out of your butt, then you would know to support our troops no matter what hardship they face

Without question, like every good German should? I support the troops. That's why I want them to come home alive.

. I don't see you out there fighting a war to help establish democracy, find WMD, and rid of a tyrant ruler.

Well, neither are you. But anyway, those aren't the reasons Iraq was invaded, just the excuses.

Saddam is a threat to our society because after the Gulf War he vowed vegenace against our nation

Saddam was never a credible threat. The first Gulf War left his military weakened and his weapons programs destroyed. He could have vowed to set up a Baathist regime on themoon. Doesn't mean he could have done it.

Also they have found a few planes there in Iraq and terrorists training sites.
Ah yes, the elite subterranean air force. :rolleyes:

Oh and just fo reveryone's info, here's a watchdog site with lots of background on PNAC. PNAC Info

And augustia, the authour's name is Karen Kwiatkowski.

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Without question, like every good German should? I support the troops. That's why I want them to come home alive.

Are you comparing American troops (sorry, coalition troops) to Nazis?

Saddam was never a credible threat. The first Gulf War left his military weakened and his weapons programs destroyed. He could have vowed to set up a Baathist regime on themoon. Doesn't mean he could have done it.

Credible threat? It was all a question of "maybes". There's a chance that a rogue state will assist some terrorist group to get WMD and cause havoc in the west. Chance? Almost a certainty.

How do we go about stopping that. (I like my Lexus and I don't want to see it trashed.)

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Are you comparing American troops (sorry, coalition troops) to Nazis?

No I'm talking about the view that one should not question your leadership in war time and blindly "support the troops" regardless of the reasons why they are in danger. Which is crap.

Credible threat? It was all a question of "maybes". There's a chance that a rogue state will assist some terrorist group to get WMD and cause havoc in the west. Chance? Almost a certainty.

How do we go about stopping that. (I like my Lexus and I don't want to see it trashed.)

You can't trample international law and the basic principles of civilized international relations in the name of "maybes". Or at least you shouldn't.

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In Italy, last summer, my wife and I found ourselves eating dinner at a table with two other couples. One couple was obviously Muslim while the other was a very “self assured” couple from Ontario. The couple from Ontario had no inhibitions about criticizing the United States, the War in Iraq and George W. Bush. On they went superciliously stating their moral elitist opinions. When they stopped yapping to ask what occasion we were all on vacation, they were quickly silenced by the Muslim couple who claimed that they were from Kuwait. They were celebrating the ousting of Saddam Hussein. If that didn’t force their feet down their throat enough, my wife then mentioned that although we called Calgary our home, she was an American by birth. I was embarrassed for these arrogant Canadians.

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When they stopped yapping to ask what occasion we were all on vacation, they were quickly silenced by the Muslim couple who claimed that they were from Kuwait. They were celebrating the ousting of Saddam Hussein. If that didn’t force their feet down their throat enough, my wife then mentioned that although we called Calgary our home, she was an American by birth. I was embarrassed for these arrogant Canadians.

Ah yes, Kuwait. Say, how's democracy doing there?

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