Would you like a trial separation

[Argus]

A nice civilized separation of powers along existing borders. Quebec does as it will with its own tax dollars. Canada does what it wants with its tax dollars. No voting on or influencing each other's government or policies. Without regard to arguments like who owns what or who owes what, would you like to see us go our own way to see how that goes?

[August1991]

The problem, Argus, is that you're casting this question as if it concerned only two people.

Quebec and English-Canada amount to some 8 million people on one side and 25 million on the other.

Take Quebec for example. Among the 8 million, about 2 million or so don't want a trial separation - they want out immediately. About 3 million or so are prepared to make any compromise to keep the country together.

Canada is not a marriage between two people, it is a "marriage" involving millions of people.

[eyeball]

I'd rather see conservatives go somewhere else so they can live according to their own peculiar customs and rules.

[marksman]

What'd be the point of an experiment like that?

It's not as simple as let's have a trial separation no questions asked. We'd have to know who owns what and decide what happens to portions of the province that want to stay in Canada. Not to mention the confusion at the international level. Does a trial separation mean Quebec's a country or is it something else? Does it get to make treaties and join the UN?

Setting up your trial involves most of the steps of negotiating secession. That quickly becomes a permanent separation not a trial separation.

There's no gain for anyone in attempting a trial separation.

Edited October 17, 2008 by marksman

[Peter F]

What'd be the point of an experiment like that?

It's not as simple as let's have a trial separation no questions asked. We'd have to know who owns what and decide what happens to portions of the province that want to stay in Canada. Not to mention the confusion at the international level. Does a trial separation mean Quebec's a country or is it something else? Does it get to make treaties and join the UN?

Setting up your trial involves most of the steps of negotiating secession. That quickly becomes a permanent separation not a trial separation.

There's no gain for anyone in attempting a trial separation.

actually, there is a big gain for seperatists: the trial seperation inevitably turns into the real thing.

[Mad_Michael]

A nice civilized separation of powers along existing borders.

Completely unacceptable to the Cree.

Why are you proposing to give Northern Quebec to Quebec as a gift? It doesn't belong to them at all. That's Federal land with Federal responsibilities.

And does your 'trial' idea include a 'trial Quebec currency' and a 'trial seat at the UN'???

Edited October 17, 2008 by Mad_Michael

[Mad_Michael]

actually, there is a big gain for seperatists: the trial seperation inevitably turns into the real thing.

That's a downside.

Separation is good policy only as a threat of action. As action, it is notoriously difficult and rarely gives any benefits to anyone. Indeed, Quebec would take a 10% hit on their GNP/capita once once the Federal subsidy taps are turned off.

[TCCK]

Send them on their way but tke ll the government vehicles and equipment and then we get 1 mile buffer zone off of the St.Laurence as tht is Caaanadin soil and if they do not like tht they can move to Quebec proper.

They hand them a $100 bill as parting gift.

I would not be sad to see them go (and rememeber I have mentioned I am French Candian in heritage!)

[guyser]

Canada is not a marriage between two people, it is a "marriage" involving millions of people.

Exactly.

I would not want even a hint of separation to be explored by the govt.

[Mad_Michael]

I would suggest that any attempt by any Province to separate from Canada is reasonable grounds for just war.

[Oleg Bach]

I would suggest that any attempt by any Province to separate from Canada is reasonable grounds for just war.

A "nation within a nation" means a family within a family - Where as the term country by definition means actual real estate..Most of Quebec never got out a dictionary to look at the difference between nation and country - so in effect they were saying that Quebec could not own their land but could be part of the Canadain family...Big deal!

The dumb French had just been called common tenants with no real land rights - I believe having a country within a country or a nation within a nation has always been a cyst in the bowels of OUR nation and country - Drive a corridor along the Saint Lawerence to keep Canada in tact . THEN - let them have their country back - besides - it would be fun to have an exotic place to visit once the French get back their culture and religious traditions back - and the woman are always out going---- nothing like a hot and naughty Catholic girl - Better than a seculaized socialist fanatic..

[na85]

I like the idea of a united Canada, but what I don't like is the way Ottawa constantly panders to Quebec and its politicians, the way a spoiled child gets attention by throwing a temper tantrum. Ottawa should do to Quebec what parents do to spoiled children - give them a swift kick in the ass.

[Oleg Bach]

I like the idea of a united Canada, but what I don't like is the way Ottawa constantly panders to Quebec and its politicians, the way a spoiled child gets attention by throwing a temper tantrum. Ottawa should do to Quebec what parents do to spoiled children - give them a swift kick in the ass.

This goes back to a deal cut by the British and French...one that was supposedly forged in the spirit of mutual co-operation - There is no such thing as equality in a marriage based in contentiousness - there will always be a contest and a usery - I say let the thin lipped sub-human French eat poutine and smoke hash. At least there is an Art and Music scene in Quebeck that rotates round a real culture that spawns from real creative power - where as we believe that all gays are artists.....and men must not be creators - but workers - I say let Quebec go on it's own - and I will move their and collect creative grants and sleep with ALL their woman - men excluded - we will leave that to the liberals in Toronto where dogs and gays rule.....I love gays - just don't want to have sex with them - Does that make me a bad person? ....Let me take the rejected euro whore and take her as a primary wife....My dad love the French during the war in Paris - They where the only girls in the world back them that did that french thing - faltashhheee oooooh oh oh ....

[cybercoma]

Drive a corridor along the Saint Lawerence to keep Canada in tact .

Dear Quebec,

We have decided to allow you to be your own political nation, separate from a united Canada; however, in exchange for your independence we choose to annex Montreal and all lands south of the St. Lawrence River. The passage through Mount Royal towards the maritimes is necessary for the economic viability of our nation of Canada. Any attempt to block this annexation will be seen as an act of war against Canada and we will not hesitate to involve the UN and NATO. We feel this trade is more than fair considering your defeat on the Plains of Abraham and the resulting Royal Proclamation of 1763. At that time your national identity could have been assimilated into British North America; however, we allowed you to preserve your culture, language and heritage. Accordingly, allowing us the annexation of all lands south of the St. Lawrence and the city of Mount Royal will be seen as a token of your appreciate for all that Canada has done for you.

Sincerely,

Canada

[guyser]

Dear Quebec,

At that time your national identity could have been assimilated into British North America; however, we allowed you to preserve your culture, language and heritage. Accordingly, allowing us the annexation of all lands south of the St. Lawrence and the city of Mount Royal will be seen as a token of your appreciate for all that Canada has done for you.

Sincerely,

Canada

Dear Canada ,

We are in reciept of your letter and thank you for sending it. Respectfully to your suggestions we have two words.

Fuck off.

Adieu,

Quebec.

[Smallc]

I was under the impression that Quebec has a federalist government and a nationalist official opposition. Given that, I'm no really sure what purpose this thread serves.

[cybercoma]

I was under the impression that Quebec has a federalist government and a nationalist official opposition. Given that, I'm no really sure what purpose this thread serves.

It serves the purpose of allowing Argus to tell Quebec to piss off

[Mad_Michael]

I was under the impression that Quebec has a federalist government and a nationalist official opposition. Given that, I'm no really sure what purpose this thread serves.

I suspect it would appeal to Conservatives dreaming of a majority government.

[seabee]

How wide is the corridor that the U.S. has carved up in canadian territory to join Alaska to is larger territory to the south of Canada? That would be a guide to how wide a corridor the federal governement should carve out to link the Maritime provinces to Ontario.

[Mad_Michael]

How wide is the corridor that the U.S. has carved up in canadian territory to join Alaska to is larger territory to the south of Canada? That would be a guide to how wide a corridor the federal governement should carve out to link the Maritime provinces to Ontario.

Quebec separatism is a political strategy to maximize Quebec's benefit at the expense of all other provinces. It is a Quebec-centric policy that serves the interest of Quebecers.

Actual separation is not a good political strategy for Quebec. That harms Quebec to the benefit of all other provinces (cuts off the gravy-train and makes them responsible for their own affairs - unable to blame Ottawa and the dastardly Anglos for everything).

[Leafless]

How wide is the corridor that the U.S. has carved up in canadian territory to join Alaska to is larger territory to the south of Canada? That would be a guide to how wide a corridor the federal governement should carve out to link the Maritime provinces to Ontario.

The ROC can and will take any corridor it wants.

What are you going to do beat up on the ROC and the U.S.?

Basically this thread serves no purpose as getting rid of Quebec is not as easy as it sounds.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Leafless

[seabee]

Basically this thread serves no purpose as getting rid of Quebec is not as easy as it sounds.

On that point, at least, we agree.

[Hcheh]

I like the idea of a united Canada, but what I don't like is the way Ottawa constantly panders to Quebec and its politicians, the way a spoiled child gets attention by throwing a temper tantrum. Ottawa should do to Quebec what parents do to spoiled children - give them a swift kick in the ass.

I agree, too much appeasement. Equality means equality, that doesn't mean that we should treat the Quebecois people like spoiled children because of some disputes that might have existed back then.

[Who's Doing What?]

A nice civilized separation of powers along existing borders. Quebec does as it will with its own tax dollars. Canada does what it wants with its tax dollars. No voting on or influencing each other's government or policies. Without regard to arguments like who owns what or who owes what, would you like to see us go our own way to see how that goes?

After maybe we can put the immigrants in internment camps, and anyone who doesn't worship Harper on a kool aid program.

[Bryan]

I like the idea of a united Canada, but what I don't like is the way Ottawa constantly panders to Quebec and its politicians, the way a spoiled child gets attention by throwing a temper tantrum. Ottawa should do to Quebec what parents do to spoiled children - give them a swift kick in the ass.

I'm quite certain the major parties feel exactly the same way as you about this. Problem is, neither would ever want to be the one to say it or do anything about it. They are both fully aware that whichever party takes the tough love approach, the other will go sucking up to Quebec to make serious political hay for the following election.

The only way it could work is if significantly more seats were added outside Quebec at the same time, making their 75 seats less of a threat.