Quebec - Shall we kick them out?

[JerrySeinfeld]

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't there seem to be something seriously wrong with our country when:

A. The Bloc gets 10% of the popular vote and 50 seats.

B. The ND gets 18% of the vote and 37 seats?

C. The Greens get only 3% less popular vote than the Bloc and get NO, Nil Zero Zilch seats?

Is it time we showed Quebec the door?

Some other "quebec related" thoughs:

- Harper would have had a serious majority in the absence of Quebec.

- Dion's "Green Shift" pitch was essentially a cash grab from Alberta and a re-transfer to quebec (and Ontario)

- Early in his political career, Harper received serious criticism for his poor french skills, and even for his attempts to "learn more french" by attending classes in Quebec, while Dion fumbles through the English language (yes, that OTHER official language) during a very public TV interview and the Liberals accuse anyone who criticizes of "personal, viscious, insensitive racist attacks". Double standard.

- Constant lecturing by Quebecois media pundits (did you watch the CBC last night) reminding us that "obviously Stephen Harper hasn't realized the "importance" of Quebec in Canadian politics" (holy shit could you be any more condescending, arrogant and elitist).

- Doesn't anyone give a shit anymore that the entire province has, for decades, consistently elected a vast majority of MPs who's stated goal is the break up of this country?

Isn't there some way we can ban a political party who's goal is to kill the country? Isn't that treason or something?

And who needs two languages on their milk cartons, anyway? Out here on the west coast it would at least make a lot more sense to have English and Mandarin or English and Hindi.

Shouldn't we find a way to whip these frenchies into line? I bet if we all got creative we could find a way.

I mean, it's like a spoiled child. Imagine how special YOU would feel if you kept whining and complaining about leaving and people kept begging you to stay. That big Canada rally before the referendum (1995?) was crap. Someone should have staged a paralle rally saying "GO QUEBEC GO!"

Tough love. It's the only way. They have yet again ruined our democracy.

[August1991]

WRT your thread title, that's kind of what happened in Czechoslovakia. The Czechs kicked the Slovaks out. (Both have done quite well since.)

Trudeau used to stay that he wanted to prevent Quebec's departure from Canada and make sure that Canada didn't kick Quebec out.

A. The Bloc gets 10% of the popular vote and 50 seats.

With about 38.5% of the Quebec popular vote, the Bloc won 50 of 75 seats.

Dems de breaks.

[seabee]

Before going any further, it might be a good idea to have the opinion of a constitutional lawyer to see if it is possible for the federation to kick one of its provinces out. My guess is that it is not.

[Smallc]

- Doesn't anyone give a shit anymore that the entire province has, for decades, consistently elected a vast majority of MPs who's stated goal is the break up of this country?

That wasn't their stated goal this time and it hasn't been for the last two elections. The issue of sovereignty has pretty much been put to bed. What they strive for now is nationalism, though I'm sure some of them would be quite happy to get sovereignty. Quebec is different than the rest of Canada. Many Quebecers love this country and many are quite happy here (the majority in fact). We simply have to accept that they are different and sometimes that means they will not make the same choices as the rest, but they are just as much Canadians as you or I.

[guyser]

They have yet again ruined our democracy.

Hmm....ruined?

I voted , did you?

[cybercoma]

Quebec shouldn't be kicked out. The provinces should just be given greater autonomy over their own jurisdictions. Services that pertain to culture and community interests, like health and education for example, are controlled by the provinces for a reason. It's time the federal government stopped getting involved in these issues and let all the provinces flourish as distinct "nations within a nation". I say let Quebec take care of herself; however, when it comes to items of national interest, like national defense and trade, they ought to respect the national government.

[BC_chick]

A friend of mine used to joke that Quebec hates Canada so much that if the day ever came where Canada wanted Quebec gone, they'd wanna stay just out of spite.

I have a feeling a whole lotta truth exists in that comment.

[cybercoma]

Besides, if you try to kick Quebec out, do you use the current political geographic borders? What about the people that don't agree with secession? What about anglophones in the province that will no doubt be French only should they separate? What about first nations people and land-claims that they have? Didn't they sue the Canadian government last time saying it wasn't the government's land to give away? What about federal infrastructure in the province, will Quebec need to purchase it all from Canada or would it be given away? Will Quebec have a separate military? What does that mean for all the men and women from Quebec fighting for the Canadian Forces right now? What about international trade agreements? Will Quebec be part of NAFTA? Does Labrador remain part of Canada? What about agreements such as NATO? Will Quebec be a part of those?

[fellowtraveller]

I have a different view of Quebec, I think they have done an oustanding job as a province and are a role model for all other provinces.

They recognized early that voting Liberal or Tory was not going to bring maximum gravy to the province, so the Bloc was invented to focus the efforts of their MPs on a very important job: getting the very most out of Confederation possible. The threat of separation has been a great lever for opening the enormous wallet in Ottawa. Very pragmatic approach, and so far so good for them.

Surely we can agree that they have done well with no real investment?

[whowhere]

I eff's have anything better to do than to stir up hate with your dumbass ignorance??

First of all Quebec is Canada.

Second, The 1982 Constitution has a Nothwithstanding Clause and the Queen passed a proclamation declaring and fixing the borders of each province to what they are. Provincial Boundaries Cannot be changed.

Third, Quebec has a population of 8 million, that's 25% of Canada's population. Technically, Quebec should then have minimum of 75 - 90 seats. Of those seats whoever the people of Quebec like the most in each of those ridings will win those seats.

Democracies elect people not parties.

[Alta4ever]

Quebec shouldn't be kicked out. The provinces should just be given greater autonomy over their own jurisdictions. Services that pertain to culture and community interests, like health and education for example, are controlled by the provinces for a reason. It's time the federal government stopped getting involved in these issues and let all the provinces flourish as distinct "nations within a nation". I say let Quebec take care of herself; however, when it comes to items of national interest, like national defense and trade, they ought to respect the national government.

Here Here

[cybercoma]

I eff's have anything better to do than to stir up hate with your dumbass ignorance??

First of all Quebec is Canada.

Second, The 1982 Constitution has a Nothwithstanding Clause and the Queen passed a proclamation declaring and fixing the borders of each province to what they are. Provincial Boundaries Cannot be changed.

Third, Quebec has a population of 8 million, that's 25% of Canada's population. Technically, Quebec should then have minimum of 75 - 90 seats. Of those seats whoever the people of Quebec like the most in each of those ridings will win those seats.

Democracies elect people not parties.

Quebec does have 75 seats.

[Smallc]

Quebec does have 75 seats.

What I find really unfair is the fact that PEI has 4.

[August1991]

Quebec shouldn't be kicked out. The provinces should just be given greater autonomy over their own jurisdictions. Services that pertain to culture and community interests, like health and education for example, are controlled by the provinces for a reason. It's time the federal government stopped getting involved in these issues and let all the provinces flourish as distinct "nations within a nation". I say let Quebec take care of herself; however, when it comes to items of national interest, like national defense and trade, they ought to respect the national government.

These are wise words, cybercoma.

I don't think the provincial governments require "greater autonomy"; they just require respect of their autonomy.

Pierre Trudeau used to ask: "But who will speak for Canada?" The question was meaningful largely in Ontario and its answer need not pass by a centralized federal bureaucracy.

Canada, the country, is something much greater than the federal government in Ottawa.

[Bryan]

The Bloc is the elephant in the room that none of the other parties want to address. If they were serious about fractured parliaments, and voting splits, electoral reform, and all the rest, they'd insist on Elections Canada reforms first.

There should be regulations in place that force parties running in a federal elections to actually be federal parties.

[August1991]

The Bloc is the elephant in the room that none of the other parties want to address. If they were serious about fractured parliaments, and voting splits, electoral reform, and all the rest, they'd insist on Elections Canada reforms first.

There should be regulations in place that force parties running in a federal elections to actually be federal parties.

There's some truth to that too. The Bloc is like the Italian Communist Party in post war Italy. Unacceptable/toxic as a coalition partner, it made Italian politics impossible.

----

Harper and the Tories had the chance this time (as the ADQ did in the past Quebec election) to somehow move everyone away from the moribund federalist/separatist dichotomy. Instead, Harper just thoroughly bungled it. I happen to think that Harper lost a critical chance - just as Mario Dumont has apparently lost his chance over the past few months too.

[TCCK]

I have better ideaaa force the BQ to run a federal party campaign and they must run candidates nationwide or they lose party status, all votes for the BQ are made NULL nd Void then the 2nd place prty cndidte is mde the winner.

You do not see any other province running a single province party like Quebec does.

It is just BS Canada has put up with it so long.

[M.Dancer]

I have better ideaaa force the BQ to run a federal party campaign and they must run candidates nationwide or they lose party status, all votes for the BQ are made NULL nd Void then the 2nd place prty cndidte is mde the winner.

In that case the Liberals and the Conservatives would also lose status.

You do not see any other province running a single province party like Quebec does.

Of course there are others. I believe there is a Newfoundland Party and an Alberta party..tey just didn't get many votes.

[M.Dancer]

There should be regulations in place that force parties running in a federal elections to actually be federal parties.

Any party or candidate that runs in a federal election is a federal candidate or federal party.

Anyone want to deny democracy to independants?

[Argus]

I have a different view of Quebec, I think they have done an oustanding job as a province and are a role model for all other provinces.

They recognized early that voting Liberal or Tory was not going to bring maximum gravy to the province, so the Bloc was invented to focus the efforts of their MPs on a very important job: getting the very most out of Confederation possible. The threat of separation has been a great lever for opening the enormous wallet in Ottawa. Very pragmatic approach, and so far so good for them.

Surely we can agree that they have done well with no real investment?

We're not talking about whether Quebec has succesfully blackmailed the rest of Canada, but whether the rest of Canada should kick their whiny welfare asses out of confederation. I vote yes.

[Bryan]

Any party or candidate that runs in a federal election is a federal candidate or federal party.

Anyone want to deny democracy to independants?

Independents are not a party. The rules are very different, especially financing.

[M.Dancer]

Independents are not a party. The rules are very different, especially financing.

And you are arguing about changing the rules specifically the freedom of association.

It's a non starter but feel free to fill yer boots

[Triple_R]

The Bloc is the elephant in the room that none of the other parties want to address. If they were serious about fractured parliaments, and voting splits, electoral reform, and all the rest, they'd insist on Elections Canada reforms first.

There should be regulations in place that force parties running in a federal elections to actually be federal parties.

I agree. I think that it's reasonable to expect all federal parties to run actual federal election campaigns. You don't need to necessarily run a candidate in every last riding, but you certainly should be expected to run candidates in more than one lone province.

As I wrote elsewhere, the Bloc have the federalist parties at a disadvantage in that they can tailor-make their policies for Quebec and Quebec alone, while also spending the entire election campaign campaigning in Quebec.

[Moonlight Graham]

If you wanted to kick out Quebec, just take away all the money & handouts the fed gov't gives them and they would almost certainly vote to separate.

I dearly want Quebec to stay, but I'm tired of the gov't giving all of this money to Quebec to appease them and prevent them from separating. They should want to stay because they are a wonderful part of this great country, not because they are being bought.

People voting for a party like the Bloc because they represent what is best for themselves, not what is best for the country, is simply wrong. JFK of course said "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". So what the hell is this?

[seabee]

The people in Québec do what they can for their country: Québec. The RoC is their conquerors's country, and they will help it an gunpoint only. Remember, you never get a second chance to make a good first impression. English-Canada blew it, litteraly, 249 ago.