Best Conservative Endorsement I have read so far

[Moonbox]

This is from the Kitchener-Waterloo Record. It is owned by the Toronto Star and is typically an EXTREMELY Liberal biased newspaper. I was extremely shocked to see them endorsing Harper but the way they did so I thought to be one of the most thoughtful endorsements I've read yet.

Here's the main excerpt. I'll highlight the parts I really felt reflected how I feel:

Let's be clear what's at stake. It is an understatement to call the situation grave. The International Monetary Fund warned yesterday that the world economy "is entering a major downturn in the face of the most dangerous financial shock . . . since the 1930s."

So far, and Harper is correct to point this out, Canada has escaped the worst of it. We are not in recession. There have been no collapses in our banks or lending institutions. There have been no bailouts. Instead, the Bank of Canada has already intervened to secure the liquidity of our banks and facilitate the flow of money. But we are not an island that can escape the storm. We are a trading nation peering out at thunderclouds and surging seas.

As the U.S. and other countries descend into recession, the demand for what we make and grow and take out of the ground will inevitably fall. Then we face losing jobs, businesses and factories. And then we will need not only tax dollars to help those in trouble but a leader with a workable plan of action for spending that money.

Unfortunately, it is at this precise moment that Dion and his Liberals are asking Canadians to take a leap of faith that could land them on their backsides in the dust. It is at this precise moment that Dion wants voters to endorse his Green Shift and the major change in Canada's system of taxation and redistributing wealth it would bring. Throughout most of its history, The Record has endorsed Liberals in federal elections. In fact in the past 40 years, there have been only two other occasions on which we did not. However, the Green Shift is a stumbling block we cannot clear.

K-W Record Endorsement

Edited October 13, 2008 by Moonbox

[kengs333]

Evidently none of these editorial writers has ever studied history: it is always Conservative governments that cause problems for Canada:

Harper has taken us to the brink of a deficit.

Mulroney caused Canada's debt to skyrocket, created GST.

Diefenbaker nearly destroyed Canadian-American Relations.

R. B. Bennett completely failed at dealing with the Great Depression.

Robert Borden introduced income tax

So haven't we had enough of Harper and the Conservatives? Canada needs to be governed by a truly national and progressive party, especially in this time of crisis.

I should also add, that none of these people really seem to understand the gravity of the problem with the environment.

Edited October 13, 2008 by kengs333

[hiti]

The Green Shift is the best plan to shift the taxes onto polluters and lower taxes for individuals. Can you imagine having from $1300 to $2400 more in your pocket every year? AND have alternate energy sources, like solar that are cheaper to use.

We are not hearing about the economy of Norway crashing!!! How come? They have implemented the Green Shift and their economy is humming along.

[betsy]

The Ottawa Sun had an editorial that mirrors the message above. It had clearly endorsed the Conservatives. It was published yesterday. I can't find a copy of it to post here.

The Ottawa Sun editorial began its article by saying this is one of those moments when we have to make a very important decision. Then it stated the reasons why the Conservatives must win.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Charles Anthony
deleted unnecessarily re-quoted Opening Post

[myata]

For reasons, already stated here, multiple times - ideology based platform, decisions on policies, closeness of government bordering on paranoja, failure to work constructively with elected representatives from other partlies, uninspiring foreign policy - Harper's conservatives should be elected to power.

Vote for progressive candidate in your riding to elect democratic coalition or representatives, not dominated by any one party, to advance really crucial at this time agendas: environmental economy that is oriented on the future; and electoral reform that will let us make real choices in the elections.

[Argus]

The Green Shift is the best plan to shift the taxes onto polluters and lower taxes for individuals. Can you imagine having from $1300 to $2400 more in your pocket every year? AND have alternate energy sources, like solar that are cheaper to use.

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day in the neighborhood. All is sunny and rosy and I have these lovely magic economy beans which will produce billions of dollars for everyone. Yes, everyone! Only polluters* will pay! Isn't that wonderful.

We are not hearing about the economy of Norway crashing!!! How come? They have implemented the Green Shift and their economy is humming along.

The Norwegians pay almost $3 a litre for gas, and their emissions have still gone up.

* bad people who use energy to heat their homes or fuel their cars or build things or mine things or transport things anywhere.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Argus

[Oleg Bach]

The average product of modernity can not even keep a common house plant alive. The average person hasn't got a clue on how to garden or grow food. The average person is not one with nature - the average person runs and hides from a bee - or when a bug appears they climb in their cars and roll up the window and drive like crazy back to their condos with filtered air. Green shifting should consist of explaining the natural green world and how to steward the world on an individual basis - I have never had a plant die - In fact I have plants older than most people. I know of an old conservative who makes a great effort to conserve the natural world...It's not about money or taxes - It is about the knowledge that you must LOVE a common plant or animal..love assists life - most people are so self absorbed that they wonder why the natural world is dying ...Here is the real Green shift - WATER AND LIGHT....Once you understand that and water your plants and people you will find success....I see so many so called environmentalist - you give them a plant and it is dead in a week - maintainance..of people and wild things is a must!

[noahbody]

I see so many so called environmentalist - you give them a plant and it is dead in a week

That's because they try to smoke it.

[Mad_Michael]

This is from the Kitchener-Waterloo Record. It is owned by the Toronto Star and is typically an EXTREMELY Liberal biased newspaper. I was extremely shocked to see them endorsing Harper but the way they did so I thought to be one of the most thoughtful endorsements I've read yet.

Here's the main excerpt. I'll highlight the parts I really felt reflected how I feel:

Let's be clear what's at stake. It is an understatement to call the situation grave. The International Monetary Fund warned yesterday that the world economy "is entering a major downturn in the face of the most dangerous financial shock . . . since the 1930s."

So far, and Harper is correct to point this out, Canada has escaped the worst of it. We are not in recession. There have been no collapses in our banks or lending institutions. There have been no bailouts. Instead, the Bank of Canada has already intervened to secure the liquidity of our banks and facilitate the flow of money. But we are not an island that can escape the storm. We are a trading nation peering out at thunderclouds and surging seas.

As the U.S. and other countries descend into recession, the demand for what we make and grow and take out of the ground will inevitably fall. Then we face losing jobs, businesses and factories. And then we will need not only tax dollars to help those in trouble but a leader with a workable plan of action for spending that money.

Unfortunately, it is at this precise moment that Dion and his Liberals are asking Canadians to take a leap of faith that could land them on their backsides in the dust. It is at this precise moment that Dion wants voters to endorse his Green Shift and the major change in Canada's system of taxation and redistributing wealth it would bring. Throughout most of its history, The Record has endorsed Liberals in federal elections. In fact in the past 40 years, there have been only two other occasions on which we did not. However, the Green Shift is a stumbling block we cannot clear.

K-W Record Endorsement

So Harper is to be praised for Canada's relatively good banking regulatory situation that was created by a Liberal government?

What am I missing here?

Are we to be thankful that Harper didn't gut our banking regulations like conservatives in the USA did? Perhaps he's only waiting for a majority in order to bring in 'financial deregulation' of the financial services sector. Conservatives are always whinging about the need to eliminate 'red tape' and free the markets from the heavy hand of government.

Suffice it to say that the Conservative party's track record on the management of government finances (and issues of financial regulation generally) offers zero basis for confidence.

[Moonbox]

So Harper is to be praised for Canada's relatively good banking regulatory situation that was created by a Liberal government?

What am I missing here?

Are we to be thankful that Harper didn't gut our banking regulations like conservatives in the USA did? Perhaps he's only waiting for a majority in order to bring in 'financial deregulation' of the financial services sector. Conservatives are always whinging about the need to eliminate 'red tape' and free the markets from the heavy hand of government.

Suffice it to say that the Conservative party's track record on the management of government finances (and issues of financial regulation generally) offers zero basis for confidence.

I think the point of the article, especially the part I highlighted, was that the alternative, Dion, is trying to introduce sweeping tax reforms and increased taxes on businesses and households amid an economic crisis. The wisdom of this is non-existant.

[Mad_Michael]

I think the point of the article, especially the part I highlighted, was that the alternative, Dion, is trying to introduce sweeping tax reforms and increased taxes on businesses and households amid an economic crisis. The wisdom of this is non-existant.

The Green Shift plan is designed to be essentially neutral on tax. Yes, it raises taxes on carbon but balances this against tax credits and tax reductions. Overall, the plan is meant to produce no net increase in tax revenue to the Government. It merely shifts the onus of taxation onto carbon pollution.

In other words, calling the Green Shift plan nothing more than a "tax increase" is not entirely accurate and just a Conservative Party talking point (propaganda if you prefer). Indeed, it seems the whole Conservative election strategy is built upon this mis-representation.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Mad_Michael

[Moonbox]

Evidently none of these editorial writers has ever studied history: it is always Conservative governments that cause problems for Canada:

Harper has taken us to the brink of a deficit.

Mulroney caused Canada's debt to skyrocket, created GST.

Diefenbaker nearly destroyed Canadian-American Relations.

R. B. Bennett completely failed at dealing with the Great Depression.

Robert Borden introduced income tax

So haven't we had enough of Harper and the Conservatives? Canada needs to be governed by a truly national and progressive party, especially in this time of crisis.

Keng this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read in this forum. Robert Borden introduced income tax after Canada was involved in WORLD WAR I. R.B. Bennett could do very little about the Great Depression and to suggest that a PM from 80 years ago is a good indication of current conservatives is idiotic. Diefenbaker didn't destroy relations with the Americans any more than Trudeau or Chretien did. The best part is that you can squarely blame Trudeau for both our debt AND bad relations with the States. The debt under Mulroney was relatively SMALLER than it was under Trudeau by the way, when you compare it to GDP and inflation you get the actual REAL numbers. Trudeau ran the biggest deficits.

I should also add, that none of these people really seem to understand the gravity of the problem with the environment.

I should add that nobody understands the gravity of the problem with the environment. The globe has been cooling lately, there are just as many experts refuting global warming as proclaiming it, and we're in the middle of economic crisis. Personally, and I guess in the opinion of many Canadians, the environment can wait for sweeping changes AFTER we're all sure we're going to keep our jobs.

[capricorn]

Can you imagine having from $1300 to $2400 more in your pocket every year?

Can you imagine having to pay more for everything you consume? Can you imagine running out of cash throughout the year to pay for increased costs on necessities and having to wait for tax time to see if you can recover your loses? For most seniors and low income Canadians this would lower their standard of living.

AND have alternate energy sources, like solar that are cheaper to use.

A lot of good this will do in reducing the world's GHG emissions if emerging economies like China and India won't wean themselves off traditional energy sources.

We are not hearing about the economy of Norway crashing!!! How come? They have implemented the Green Shift and their economy is humming along.

But...their green shift is not resulting in the desired outcome which is to reduce GHG emissions and their strong economic position is not due to their green shift.

In 1991, Norway became one of the first countries in the world to impose a stiff tax on harmful greenhouse gas emissions. Since then, the country's emissions should have dropped. Instead, they have risen by 15%.

-----

Norwegians, who already pay nearly $10 a gallon, took the tax in stride, buying more cars and driving them more.

----

The carbon tax's most glaring failure was in the transportation sector. Norway's Post Office transports 95% of the country's mail on heavy-polluting trucks. Geir Riise, environmental officer at Norway Post, says the company is trying to modernize its fleet of trucks, train its drivers and optimize its routes to reduce mileage. But "it's very difficult for us to reduce our emissions and still deliver the mail to every home and every village in Norway," he says.

The tax has also done little to quench Norwegians' thirst for automobiles. The number of registered cars has risen 27% in the past decade. Norwegians are used to paying high prices at the pump: a gallon of gasoline costs around $9 to $10, and about 6% of the price comes from the carbon tax. Yet since two-thirds of Norwegians live in the countryside, they pay up and keep driving.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122272533893187737.html

If Dion' green shift works the way Norway's did, why bother buying into it? Surely Canada can come up with a plan to meet the real objective of reducing GHG emissions.

[Bryan]

Can you imagine having from $1300 to $2400 more in your pocket every year?

Considering I already have an extra $3000 in my pocket since Harper came to power, I sure can imagine it! He's the only politician I know of who has ever lowered my taxes directly, instead of a complicated bait and switch with either zero sum or an actual increase. The Green shift is a complicated bait and switch. No thank you.

[betsy]

Suffice it to say that the Conservative party's track record on the management of government finances (and issues of financial regulation generally) offers zero basis for confidence.

Dion's whole platform is based on his Green Shift Plan.

So what is Dion's track record? Aside from being with the "old boys" that cooked up the atrocious boondagles of the gun registry, HRDC, etc..?

Gas emission doubling up, that is!

Edited October 13, 2008 by betsy

[betsy]

The Green Shift plan is designed to be essentially neutral on tax. Yes, it raises taxes on carbon but balances this against tax credits and tax reductions. Overall, the plan is meant to produce no net increase in tax revenue to the Government. It merely shifts the onus of taxation onto carbon pollution.

In other words, calling the Green Shift plan nothing more than a "tax increase" is not entirely accurate and just a Conservative Party talking point (propaganda if you prefer). Indeed, it seems the whole Conservative election strategy is built upon this mis-representation.

The Green Shift Plan is designed to woo voters! As simple as that!

And yes, it is nothing more than a tax grab! It's not even going to do anything to reduce gas emission! What more, it will raise the cost of living. So yes, the population will get a double whammy!

Neutral tax my foot! We'll be taxed to our eyeballs and Canada will end up being broke all because of funding a silly man's pipe dream. Even some of the usually liberal-leaning media are worried to the point that they've endorsed Harper! It is the Liberals who are trying to mis-represent their policy.

[nothinarian]

The Green Shift Plan is designed to woo voters! As simple as that!

And yes, it is nothing more than a tax grab! It's not even going to do anything to reduce gas emission! What more, it will raise the cost of living. So yes, the population will get a double whammy!

Neutral tax my foot! We'll be taxed to our eyeballs and Canada will end up being broke all because of funding a silly man's pipe dream. Even some of the usually liberal-leaning media are worried to the point that they've endorsed Harper! It is the Liberals who are trying to mis-represent their policy.

Excuse me - the Green Shift is one of the most ill-conceived political initiatives in the history of our great country and might be good policy but is terrible and incompetent politics a la Martin calling an enquiry on ... go figure...his own party.

Harper is the expert at poor policy and good politics similar to his hero Jean Chretien

i.e. GST cuts are great politics and serves to woo voters but cutting consumption taxes is a horrible policy...put the money in my pocket next time

Green Shift is good policy (although implementation should be phased in while in present economic situation) but terrible politics and is being communicated in a comical fashion by a confusing leader

[independent]

The Green Shift Plan is designed to woo voters! As simple as that!

And yes, it is nothing more than a tax grab! It's not even going to do anything to reduce gas emission! What more, it will raise the cost of living. So yes, the population will get a double whammy!

Neutral tax my foot! We'll be taxed to our eyeballs and Canada will end up being broke all because of funding a silly man's pipe dream. Even some of the usually liberal-leaning media are worried to the point that they've endorsed Harper! It is the Liberals who are trying to mis-represent their policy.

Why do you keep mentioning Dions green plan without comparing it to Harpers green plan. How is Harpers green plan better when it will cost you just as much?

[truenorth]

The Green Shift plan is designed to be essentially neutral on tax. Yes, it raises taxes on carbon but balances this against tax credits and tax reductions. Overall, the plan is meant to produce no net increase in tax revenue to the Government. It merely shifts the onus of taxation onto carbon pollution.

In other words, calling the Green Shift plan nothing more than a "tax increase" is not entirely accurate and just a Conservative Party talking point (propaganda if you prefer). Indeed, it seems the whole Conservative election strategy is built upon this mis-representation.

Dion's Green Shift plan will just increase the price on everything we purchase because the levied Carbon tax will be passed on down to the consumer. It will be such a big tax grab that they will want to continue to collect it, so they won't enforce going green, they will just stash the cash--who knows where!! Don't forget that the Liberals are big on taxing, big on spending and have big problems (remember the sponsorship scandal)! As a senior on a fixed income I would rather have Harper's plan with lower taxes and cash in my pocket than have to wait for income tax time to get a pittance from a Liberal government. I for one will not be sucked in by Dion!

Edited October 13, 2008 by truenorth

[betsy]

Why do you keep mentioning Dions green plan without comparing it to Harpers green plan. How is Harpers green plan better when it will cost you just as much?

Why do you say it will cost as much? Explain please.

[Slim MacSquinty]

The carbon tax is not revenue neutral for the individual, it is a consumption tax, for all things carbon related, its meant to punish carbon users enough to get them to change, however it has not been proven effective in the places its been implemented in terms of lowering CO2 emissions. Just the infrastucture to change the tax system and keep it running will likely run in the hundreds of millions of dollars per year as all other taxes will remain in place at perhaps different rates.

What it means to me and you is that the price of most everything will go up, I figure that it will cost nearly $8000 to heat my home in four years if the Liberals are elected and implement their plan. It will cause diesel fuel to go up causing all shipped goods to cost more and running farm machinery will be costly, food and other commodities go up. Tax breaks, for some I suppose but exactly how they'll be doaled out is up in the air. Liberals always have trouble lowering taxes, so I wouldn't hold my breath, especially if your in the middle class tax bracket because its unlikely they'll be able to afford significantly lower tax revenue given their many spending promises. The economy will suffer as consumption will drop as people adjust to higher priced everything. The most head shaking thing is it looks like the Maritimes are voting Liberal, they will be by far the worst off, oil heat is most prevelent there as are coal fired electrical generators, and much of what they consume is trucked there, so as far as I can see they'll be worst hit.

The revenue neutral part of the carbon tax is meant to apply to the government, they will collect taxes on all things carbon and offer releif in other areas, although not well specified in the platform you can bet it will be for the poorest, and then sprinkeld around to special interests, so once again its take from me and give to you Liberal politics as usual.

The other interesting things is that in the final days of the election Dion is pleading with left wing voters to join the Liberals, what is he really doing here, he knows he has little likelyhood of winning the election, why would he be so eager to align the liberals up with the NDP and Greens? The answer is money, they are desperate for cash, each vote means about a buck to the receiving party.