Liberals and NDP fanning the flames

[Argus]

(capricorn @ Oct 7 2008, 11:06 PM)

Panic. That's exactly what the opposition has been selling. It's shameful. What is needed is someone to calm the nerves to avoid hasty financial decisions by Canadians based on WHAT IF.

I was thinking the same thing the other day, and again today. While Harper has been trying to calm people down, pointing out the strength of our system, the Liberals and NDP are running around pulling at their hair and screaming that the next great depression is upon us. The market is now oversold, and responsing mostly to emotion and panic, not to economic fact. The Liberals and NDP are helping fan that panic, not just with their statements but with actual commercials quickly run out to take advantage of people's economic fears.

Have you heard the latest Liberal ad? The one where the guy has lost his job, and he's going to lose his house, and "there''s nothing out there!" in the way of work. This is all because of "Harpereconomics". Apparently Harper caused the stock market to tumble, and he's hiding the high unemployment that we don't have. But anyway, you can't expect honesty from a Liberal. What I'm really complaining about is the tone it sets. The NDP have one much like it, where good ol Jack Layton is going to protec families from the great storm upon us. How? Well by taxing corporations out of existance, that's how! Both of them, and other party propganda, is trumpeting economic doom as a way of frightening people into voting for them. It's absolutely despicable and shows just how low they're willing to sink.

How much of the current rising mood of panic is due to the Liberals and NDP trying to fan that mood, trying to create fear and panic and alarm about the economic state of the country? How much of the stock market panic is due to their political manoeuvring?

Edited October 8, 2008 by Argus

[White Doors]

Yep and meanwhile the US Fed is actively courting Canadian Banks (the model of financial stability) to buy beleagured American banks. This should be a moment of pride for lefties, instead they are hoping to make us all run around like chicken-littles.

[myata]

TSX is down what, 30%? Economy is shedding quality manufacturing jobs. Yet for Harper it's not to worry, business as usual. He thinks that just giving the fat cats in the oil and banking more tax cuts, to make their profits even higher (and bonuses skyrocket) in itself somehow will keep economy afloat. We already saw that same approach somewhere... Isn't it exactly that's causing this crisis? Games of fat cats swimming in money and already salivating to make even more from the crisis.

[capricorn]

This brings us to the main reason why we cannot endorse the Liberals. Putting aside Stephane Dion's reflexive leftward tilt on everything from foreign affairs to social issues, his "Green Shift" carbon-tax scheme is, by itself, enough to persuade us that he is the wrong man to be running this country. As our banking and financial-services sectors become strained by the worldwide credit crunch, this country is increasingly dependant on our oil and gas sector to sustain us through rough waters. Yet these are exactly the industries Mr. Dion wants to soak.

We also are not impressed by Mr. Dion's plan-- and general attitude -- in regard to Canada's economic challenges. In recent days, he truly has sounded like a hysteric, trying to convince Canadians that our relatively sound economy is on the brink of a cataclysmic depression. There is no evidence of this: Indeed, the latest economic numbers on jobs and growth are excellent. And as a stack of reports from our major banks attest, the fundamentals of our real estate market bear no comparison to America's sub-prime mess. Indeed, the only thing that could tip this country into full-blown depression is wide-scale investor panic of the type Mr. Dion seems intent on fomenting.

Nor are we impressed with Mr. Dion's grandly announced economic plan -- which is not a plan at all, but rather a pledge to consult with the country's leading economists, and do as they say. Consultation of this nature is something that Mr. Harper's government -- like all governments --does on a regular basis. The former professor's take on this issue seems to betray a basic ignorance of how government works, not to mention a disturbing penchant for outsourcing his own leadership.

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/s....html?id=866505

Dion knows his own policies haven't any traction with the majority of voters. In desperation, he is spreading fear and uncertainty by manipulating Harper's every word. I can't help but think he is making a difficult situation worse with his chicken little antics. How can this man sleep at night.

[capricorn]

Yet for Harper it's not to worry, business as usual.

How do you know that? Do you have a pipeline into what goes on day to day on the financial front in government operations? The truth is you are merely repeating what Dion and Layton are claiming. Do try to think independently.

He thinks that just giving the fat cats in the oil and banking more tax cuts, to make their profits even higher (and bonuses skyrocket) in itself somehow will keep economy afloat. We already saw that same approach somewhere... Isn't it exactly that's causing this crisis? Games of fat cats swimming in money and already salivating to make even more from the crisis.

More uninformed rhetoric. Why not come right out and say Harper is just like Bush. After all, it is right on the tip of your tongue, isn't it.

[jdobbin]

Dion knows his own policies haven't any traction with the majority of voters. In desperation, he is spreading fear and uncertainty by manipulating Harper's every word. I can't help but think he is making a difficult situation worse with his chicken little antics. How can this man sleep at night.

Big surprise that Harper has been endorsed by the National Post again. They've endorsed him every time.

Dion must be a sheer genius, a master strategist. You can see his hand in every dip in the world-wide market.

[jdobbin]

Yep and meanwhile the US Fed is actively courting Canadian Banks (the model of financial stability) to buy beleagured American banks. This should be a moment of pride for lefties, instead they are hoping to make us all run around like chicken-littles.

And the financial stability of those banks and the financial system in Canada started when? That should be a moment of pride for the righties but that might mean giving credit to the Liberals for a regulatory system they themselves probably never believed in.

[capricorn]

Yep and meanwhile the US Fed is actively courting Canadian Banks (the model of financial stability) to buy beleagured American banks.

The Europeans are also looking at asking Canada to join in a plan to lessen the worldwide crisis. It's looking like the international community is envious of our financial structure and positive circumstances.

[jdobbin]

How much of the current rising mood of panic is due to the Liberals and NDP trying to fan that mood, trying to create fear and panic and alarm about the economic state of the country? How much of the stock market panic is due to their political manoeuvring?

Around the word must be Dion's fault, right? He is now responsible for the Keynes-like policy of nationalizing the banks and pump priming the economy in the U.S. and Britain. That Dion is pure evil for sending the world economy down the tubes!

Edited October 8, 2008 by jdobbin

[capricorn]

Dion must be a sheer genius, a master strategist. You can see his hand in every dip in the world-wide market.

I would not put financial genius and Stephane Dion in the same sentence. He can't even manage his own debts.

Edited October 8, 2008 by capricorn

[jdobbin]

I would not put financial genius and Stephane Dion in the same sentence.

You seem to think he totally responsible for the world-wide crisis.

Edited October 8, 2008 by jdobbin

[capricorn]

I'd say pretty much off it around the word must be Dion's fault. He is now responsible for the Keynes-like policy of nationalizing the banks and pump priming the economy in the U.S. and Britain. That Dion is pure evil for sending the world economy down the tubes!

Well I certainly can't see Dion's actions as being part of the solution.

[jdobbin]

Well I certainly can't see Dion's actions as being part of the solution.

Looks like many Canadians are feeling that way about Harper. Certainly when Conservative supporters start to blame Dion for what is going on around the world, it looks desperate and shows panic.

[eyeball]

How much of the current rising mood of panic is due to the Liberals and NDP trying to fan that mood, trying to create fear and panic and alarm about the economic state of the country? How much of the stock market panic is due to their political manoeuvring?

Probably not anywhere near as much as you think. I especially have a hard time believing the Liberals and NDP are affecting stock markets all around the world to panic. I haven't seen any news headlines screaming, "Canadian election causing market crash" or "Blame Canada". Have you?

[eyeball]

Well I certainly can't see Dion's actions as being part of the solution.

I'd rank stopping Harper from getting a majority is definitely part of the solution. I'd say stopping ANYONE from getting a majority is part of the solution.

Let me know when you think I should vote strategically to stop Dion from getting a majority.

Edited October 8, 2008 by eyeball

[myata]

How do you know that? Do you have a pipeline into what goes on day to day on the financial front in government operations?

From his own statements in the debates. He could have quoted real measures to strenghten the economy, and most importantly, channel help where it's most needed, rather than where the most corporate donations are coming from - if he had any under his belt.

More uninformed rhetoric. Why not come right out and say Harper is just like Bush. After all, it is right on the tip of your tongue, isn't it.

From all the analysts I'm hearing it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the cause of the crisis was the lack of regulation and freemarket greed allowed to run wild. Harper is certainly not an alien to industry self regulation, voluntary behaviour and such. To see what "hands off, laissez-faire" approach does to the economy (eventually), look no further than across the border.

[PoliticalCitizen]

This is all because of "Harpereconomics".

It's "harpernomics".

[capricorn]

Looks like many Canadians are feeling that way about Harper. Certainly when Conservative supporters start to blame Dion for what is going on around the world, it looks desperate and shows panic.

Argus never referred to the "world". His comment relate to the Canadian stock market. Re-read his OP. Liberals just see what they want to see.

[capricorn]

I especially have a hard time believing the Liberals and NDP are affecting stock markets all around the world to panic.

You're wasting your breath. Read the OP. It specifically refers to "the economic state of the country" not "the world".

[jdobbin]

Argus never referred to the "world". His comment relate to the Canadian stock market. Re-read his OP. Liberals just see what they want to see.

Fine. So you think that Dion is solely responsible for the Canadian stock market going down despite the fact that not one person in business seems to be saying that. Talk about hyperpartisan claims.

[Hcheh]

I would rather have a leader who keeps his cool during a time like this.. Running and pulling your hair out is a job for the average citizen. The leader should be able to rise above the mess and take care of things. I don't believe that Layton or Dion is not capable of this, however, using this fear as a campaign method is quite dishonest..

[cybercoma]

With Jack Layton wanting to tax the crap out of big businesses and withdraw from NAFTA, what reason would anyone have for voting NDP on the economy?

Dion wants claims he wants to shift taxes from income and big business to carbon, but will businesses and people really make that money back in tax-cuts? I'm doubtful and I think this will just create more hoops for businesses to jump through, effectively forcing them to move to out of our country and sell goods and services back into Canada.

Elizabeth May wants to spend money twinning the railroad system, which currently is more expensive than taking a bus and sometimes more expensive than even flying. As it pertains to cargo, I'm not sure if it's any cheaper than ground transport or air transport, regardless... it's going to cost big bucks.

It's great that they want to fan the flames about the economy, perhaps they should offer a viable solution in return.

Edited October 8, 2008 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

[Liberal Party ads say] [Harper is] hiding the high unemployment that we don't have.

The unemployment rate thing amuses me. If people would take a look at the stats canada chart, they would notice the complete opposite:

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Lab...FS/c080905b.gif

Unemployment has been dropping since the Liberals left office.

[cybercoma]

It's "harpernomics".

It's "supply-side economics" and under Ronald Reagan it's what saved the United States from collapsing in the 80s.

[M.Dancer]

As it pertains to cargo, I'm not sure if it's any cheaper than ground transport or air transport, regardless... it's going to cost big bucks.

It's great that they want to fan the flames about the economy, perhaps they should offer a viable solution in return.

For bulk it is, which is why you will rarely see on the highway a truck carrying wheat or iron ore.

The train is great idea whois time is yet to come. Makes more sence for a rapid corridor from NYC to Miami than for vancouver to Toronto...when our population hits 100 million maybe then...