Obama and "Affirmative Action Home Loans"

[JerrySeinfeld]

This article is very interesting.

It talks about how many of the "loose credit" policies of banks were as a result of militant-style pressure from groups like ACORN, designed to make it easier for minorities to buy homes.

Are the roots of sub prime mortgages affirmative action?

And was Barack Obama intimately tied to these early pressures?

Link to full article

[GostHacked]

Link to full article

THE seeds of today's financial meltdown lie in the Commu nity Reinvestment Act - a law passed in 1977 and made riskier by unwise amendments and regulatory rulings in later decades.

Barak would have been 16 when these laws were passed.

Banks already overexposed by these shaky loans were pushed still further in the wrong direction when government-sponsored Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac began buying up their bad loans and offering them for sale on world markets

Fannie and Freddie acted in response to Clinton administration pressure to boost homeownership rates among minorities and the poor. However compassionate the motive, the result of this systematic disregard for normal credit standards has been financial disaster.

Hey the bank's did not have to lend out the money. But they did anyways. Community Organizers ( or Presidents) can put preassure on those groups, but eventually it is the groups or banks in this case, that gave out the loans when they knew it was a bad investment. So why did it go through anyways??

[Shady]

Hey the bank's did not have to lend out the money. But they did anyways. Community Organizers ( or Presidents) can put preassure on those groups, but eventually it is the groups or banks in this case, that gave out the loans when they knew it was a bad investment.

Actually, community organizer's did pressure banks and lenders, but especially the government to do it for them. Banks and lenders could face stiff fines and penalities. Just think about it logically. Does giving out money to poor people who couldn't afford to pay it back sound like a Repbulican idea? That's what I thought.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Hey the bank's did not have to lend out the money. But they did anyways. Community Organizers ( or Presidents) can put preassure on those groups, but eventually it is the groups or banks in this case, that gave out the loans when they knew it was a bad investment. So why did it go through anyways??

OK so we'e in agreement that Barack supported the basic practice that caused this mess.

[stevoh]

OK so we'e in agreement that Barack supported the basic practice that caused this mess.

Nope, many subprime mortgage lenders were only too happy to cash in on the latest gold mine of these new asset backed securities. No pressure necessary.

The subprime mortgage meltdown is due to:

Housing values falling rather than continuing to rise.

The SEC changing the required asset/debt balance for certain lending institutions.

The practices of subprime lenders and the lack of effective government oversight.

Mortgage brokers steering borrowers to unaffordable loans.

Appraisers inflating housing values.

Wall Street investors backing subprime mortgage securities without verifying the strength of the underlying loans.

Borrowers entering into loan agreements they could not meet.

Some of these can be blamed on government, some on walstreet, some on individuals looking to cash in on the housing market as fast as possible, and some on people signing up for loans they couldn't afford.

Anyone blaming this on one area, whether its government, wall street, or an individual organization does not understand the whole picture, and immediately reveals their bias by doing so.

[peter_puck]

Actually, community organizer's did pressure banks and lenders, but especially the government to do it for them. Banks and lenders could face stiff fines and penalities. Just think about it logically. Does giving out money to poor people who couldn't afford to pay it back sound like a Repbulican idea? That's what I thought.

What you are leaving out is that companies jumped hog wild into this market without any pressure from community groups. You are also leaving out the component where these risky mortgages were transformed into investment grade debt. There was no community group forcing investment banks to obscure the value of these mortgages through financial slight of hand.

These community groups also had little effect on the Bush administration and Republican congress who turned a blind eye to all this.

[GostHacked]

Actually, community organizer's did pressure banks and lenders, but especially the government to do it for them. Banks and lenders could face stiff fines and penalities.

So the system is flawed and needs to be reworked.

Just think about it logically.

lol\

Does giving out money to poor people who couldn't afford to pay it back sound like a Repbulican idea? That's what I thought.

No it is a stupid idea no matter what camp you support. The banks new it was a risk, but the payoff potential is what they look at. Gotta satisfy those shareholders too you know. Logic indeed.

But why is the poor population growing and not diminishing?? Why is the Middle class getting pushed even further down to borderline poverty levels. The least people own the most money. Why do banks lend out money they know is high risk. Because high risk also can turn into high profits.

JerryS

OK so we'e in agreement that Barack supported the basic practice that caused this mess.

It takes two to tango, you can put some blame on Obama for wating change for the poor, however, if you want to say the banks are innocent in this case, then your premise is flawed.

McCain supported deregulation of the banks, and was involved in one of the biggest economic scandal of the 80s. And since he stopped his campaing to help with the crisis (which could be just coincidence that the baiul out plan was delayed by almost a week). To me, McCain wanted to save some friends in high places from the crisis.

Stevoh

Anyone blaming this on one area, whether its government, wall street, or an individual organization does not understand the whole picture, and immediately reveals their bias by doing so.

You are 100% correct on this. There are many people to blame.

[jbg]

This article is very interesting.

It talks about how many of the "loose credit" policies of banks were as a result of militant-style pressure from groups like ACORN, designed to make it easier for minorities to buy homes.

Are the roots of sub prime mortgages affirmative action?

And was Barack Obama intimately tied to these early pressures?

Link to full article

Normally I agree with you, Jerry but I just don't buy it. In this meltdown, mortgages to the wealthy are at least as much under the gun as to poor people. I know what clientele walks in my door.

[August1991]

The subprime mortgage meltdown is due to:

Housing values falling rather than continuing to rise.

The SEC changing the required asset/debt balance for certain lending institutions.

The practices of subprime lenders and the lack of effective government oversight.

Mortgage brokers steering borrowers to unaffordable loans.

Appraisers inflating housing values.

Wall Street investors backing subprime mortgage securities without verifying the strength of the underlying loans.

Borrowers entering into loan agreements they could not meet.

Some of these can be blamed on government, some on walstreet, some on individuals looking to cash in on the housing market as fast as possible, and some on people signing up for loans they couldn't afford.

Anyone blaming this on one area, whether its government, wall street, or an individual organization does not understand the whole picture, and immediately reveals their bias by doing so.

Call me biased Stevoh but the undelying point in your list above is a government guarantee of the mortgage in the first place.

Without the guarantee of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, many of those mortgages would not have been accepted.

What proponents of more or "better" State intervention fail to acknowledge is that we don't live in a perfect world: we will never have a perfect government.

For example, in your list above, you cite "the lack of effective government oversight". Do you think we will ever have "effective government oversight"? That's like saying that if Gosplan could just have had access to better computers, the Soviet Union would have been the richest society on earth.

IOW, you miss the point.

BTW, I'm no Libertarian. I just wish people had a better understanding of the limits of what the State can do. Like fire, it is a wonderful servant but a terrible master.

----

As to Obama's role in this, it's a stretch to go from community organizer to junior senator through Fannie Mae to housing market debacle. I agree however that criticizing Obama is justified since he favours more government intervention when government intervention largely caused this problem.

[WIP]

This article is very interesting.

It talks about how many of the "loose credit" policies of banks were as a result of militant-style pressure from groups like ACORN, designed to make it easier for minorities to buy homes.

Are the roots of sub prime mortgages affirmative action?

And was Barack Obama intimately tied to these early pressures?

Link to full article

Okay, I've had enough of this Republican blame-shifting crap that goes on day after day! If you're going to blame Democrats, Barack Obama, groups like ACORN, and Blacks in general, for the U.S. housing crisis, you're going to have to include a footnote about how the idiot that you Republican conservatives insisted on making president, and re-electing him for another four years, jumped on the subprime bandwagon himself so that he could get credit for an increase in minority home-ownership:

Posted 1/20/2004

By Thomas A. Fogarty, USA TODAY

In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans.

In announcing the plan Monday at a home builders show in Las Vegas, Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher called the proposal the "most significant FHA initiative in more than a decade." It would lead to 150,000 first-time owners annually, he said.

Mortgage analyst Keith Gumbinger of financial publishers HSH Associates says the Bush plan "would fill at least a small niche in the mortgage market" — first-time buyers with somewhat impaired credit.

[bush_cheney2004]

Okay, I've had enough of this Republican blame-shifting crap that goes on day after day! If you're going to blame Democrats, Barack Obama, groups like ACORN, and Blacks in general, for the U.S. housing crisis....

You've had enough? You don't have jack! Americans will blame whomever they please, and elect whomever they please as president. You can't Google your way to the table. Still hung up on "Blacks"...huh?

We figure that people like you will bitch no matter what...from the peanut gallery no less.

[Oleg Bach]

Bitch much like a man that is sexist and persecutes woman - has no quams about persecuting males either - those that bitch about blacks also will dispise whites - a prick is a prick - a person controlled by hate is limited and of foggy judgement - Personally I see Obama as a Youthist - he will condition the young to eat their parents and not have to wait for their enheritance...I'm serious - he swaggers and has a preditorial personana...Affirmative action loans make as much sense as affirmative hiring policies for police...where a ninety pound weakling with the IQ of a worm picker must taser you to death because they are not fit for the position of law enforcer - cos' they have no force...just like getting a mortgage approved while you are collection American welfare - what the hell is that? Take money from the tax payer and give it to the non tax payer who hands it over to the loan shark who we bail out - I don't get it!

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Take money from the tax payer and give it to the non tax payer who hands it over to the loan shark who we bail out - I don't get it!

Hey...I like that! Bravo!

So...Bye Bye MissAmerican pie.....

[Oleg Bach]

Hey...I like that! Bravo!

So...Bye Bye MissAmerican pie.....

See you later BC - good luck to the Americans - a mafia can only get so big - then if falls - there are limits.

[August1991]

Okay, I've had enough of this Republican blame-shifting crap that goes on day after day! If you're going to blame Democrats, Barack Obama, groups like ACORN, and Blacks in general, for the U.S. housing crisis, you're going to have to include a footnote about how the idiot that you Republican conservatives insisted on making president, and re-electing him for another four years, jumped on the subprime bandwagon himself so that he could get credit for an increase in minority home-ownership...

Sorry Jerrry, WIP is right.

Bush II could have worked against what Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac were doing but he didn't.

To blame teh left wing Democrats (Obama, Clinton, Carter, whoever) and absolve Bush Jnr/Snr is simply wrong.

----

If there's anyone to blame in this, it is State intervention. A democratic State should learn to offer its guarantees more carefully

Too many of us believe that the State is all powerful. (Obama voters typically believe that if Obama becomes president, he can change the world.) Politicians and governments have an obvious interest in perpetuating this belief.

The belief is false.

If Louis XVI is not evidence of the limits of the State, Stalin and Hitler surely are. Well, as Chou En Lai famously said: "We await a verdict on the French revolution." It takes time for people to understand fully the powers of the State. In my beloved Montreal, people expect the federal State to pay for a Formula One race.

Maybe Chou En Lai was wrong - where it's a question of the State, we may need millenia not centuries.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Too many of us believe that the State is all powerful. (Obama voters typically believe that if Obama becomes president, he can change the world.) Politicians and governments have an obvious interest in perpetuating this belief.

The belief is false.

True, but during an election campaign, perpetuating myths is of paramount import. It doesn't matter what the reality is.

Bush could have done no more/or less than any Democrat.

[WIP]

You've had enough? You don't have jack! Americans will blame whomever they please, and elect whomever they please as president. You can't Google your way to the table. Still hung up on "Blacks"...huh?

So, is your concern about maintaining white privilege?

We figure that people like you will bitch no matter what...from the peanut gallery no less.

What makes me sick are clowns like you who try to blame all of the problems on the Democrats. You are nothing more than a propagandist for George Bush and the Republican Party, but you can't spin your way out of this mess now that the wheels have fallen off the wagon.

[bush_cheney2004]

So, is your concern about maintaining white privilege?

No, that appears to be your motive. "White privilege" wouldn't do me much good.

What makes me sick are clowns like you who try to blame all of the problems on the Democrats. You are nothing more than a propagandist for George Bush and the Republican Party, but you can't spin your way out of this mess now that the wheels have fallen off the wagon.

No, you apparntly get sick over a lot of things you don't control. Too bad....maybe the Queen can save you!