McCain suspends campaign

[Guest American Woman]

These are typical liberal responses. When Palin first was nominated and no immediate interviews with the MSM were scheduled, leftwingers on this forum were complaining loudly that she must face the hard questions and if she didn't she wouldn't be vetted properly (although dozens of media types, lawyers and the like were air dropped into Alaska to dig up such nuggets such as her recent baby was actually her daughter's, etc). Now that she's being made available to the MSM, surprise surprise, liberals don't like her anyway.

Meanwhile, Biden is receiving a free pass on any scrutiny to such an extent that his recent gaffe referencing the depression and the president who saw it implode was mostly ignored (He named the wrong president and claimed he went on TV to calm the public when TV hadn't been invented yet.) Palin, on the other hand, gets roasted for clothes, glasses, hair, accomplishments, and anything else the left can make up.

I would pay big money to see her win just to stick it to the snitty left who would probably then begin a civil war based on paper cup usage.

Feel better now that you've had your little tantrum?

[stevoh]

These are typical liberal responses. When Palin first was nominated and no immediate interviews with the MSM were scheduled, leftwingers on this forum were complaining loudly that she must face the hard questions and if she didn't she wouldn't be vetted properly (although dozens of media types, lawyers and the like were air dropped into Alaska to dig up such nuggets such as her recent baby was actually her daughter's, etc). Now that she's being made available to the MSM, surprise surprise, liberals don't like her anyway.

Meanwhile, Biden is receiving a free pass on any scrutiny to such an extent that his recent gaffe referencing the depression and the president who saw it implode was mostly ignored (He named the wrong president and claimed he went on TV to calm the public when TV hadn't been invented yet.) Palin, on the other hand, gets roasted for clothes, glasses, hair, accomplishments, and anything else the left can make up.

I would pay big money to see her win just to stick it to the snitty left who would probably then begin a civil war based on paper cup usage.

Palin is in the big time now. You should no more expect "left wingers" to hold back on this than "right wingers" to hold back on their contempt for Hillary Clinton. Becoming VP isn't a nice walk in the park, its tough questions, its intense scrutiny, its high level American Politics. You are responsible for the most powerful nation on earth. It's time for her to step up.

[sharkman]

Palin is in the big time now. You should no more expect "left wingers" to hold back on this than "right wingers" to hold back on their contempt for Hillary Clinton. Becoming VP isn't a nice walk in the park, its tough questions, its intense scrutiny, its high level American Politics. You are responsible for the most powerful nation on earth. It's time for her to step up.

You missed the main part of my comments. Biden is receiving no such scrutiny. Why do you suppose that is?

[capricorn]

You missed the main part of my comments. Biden is receiving no such scrutiny. Why do you suppose that is?

There are rumours on the net that Biden will withdraw. Maybe this makes him less interesting. Why beat up on him if he won't be around when it matters most?

[peter_puck]

Agreed...McCain may suffer over the larger issue of deregulation, but the bailout is certainly not associated with him. The present circumstance has a long and sordid bi-partisan history, and frankly, the US Congress has been asleep at the wheel for a long time.

What was the leader of the free world doing while congress was sleep at the wheel ?

This problem may have bi-paritsan roots, but the reason it go so big was that it was the only thing holding the Bush economy together. He let this get out of control. He faced a recession from the Clinton era dot com crash and globalization - none of which were his fault. But instead of letting the economy sort itself out as it should (and possibly not get a 2nd term because of it), he decided he would cheat. He rode the great lie of the housing bubble to victory. He borrowed a bazillion dollars and pretended it was not really borrowing because his tax cuts would actually lower the deficit in a few years. He turned the dollar into a green peso to hide a stock market collapes.

This was not something that snuck up on us, like Al Queda. "Mr Housing Bubble" T-shirts came out years ago. Jokes about "liar loans" have gotten old. This was a game of old maid. Bush just figured it would be McCain or Obama that would get stuck with the old maid. When they got stuck with the old maid, it would be their lack of true conservative vision that would be to blame.

He could have cracked down on this sort of stuff. Actually made sure people went to jail for committing crimes. Forced banks to require people be able to pay back the loan they get, etc. But that would mean the everyone would see the true state of the economy (hey!, we are not actually making anything anymore). Jobs going to China is a pretty abstract concept when your house goes up $50K a year.

[peter_puck]

These are typical liberal responses. When Palin first was nominated and no immediate interviews with the MSM were scheduled, leftwingers on this forum were complaining loudly that she must face the hard questions and if she didn't she wouldn't be vetted properly (although dozens of media types, lawyers and the like were air dropped into Alaska to dig up such nuggets such as her recent baby was actually her daughter's, etc). Now that she's being made available to the MSM, surprise surprise, liberals don't like her anyway.

Meanwhile, Biden is receiving a free pass on any scrutiny to such an extent that his recent gaffe referencing the depression and the president who saw it implode was mostly ignored (He named the wrong president and claimed he went on TV to calm the public when TV hadn't been invented yet.) Palin, on the other hand, gets roasted for clothes, glasses, hair, accomplishments, and anything else the left can make up.

I would pay big money to see her win just to stick it to the snitty left who would probably then begin a civil war based on paper cup usage.

Biden stuck his foot in his mouth...so what. He does it all the time, thats the way he talks. He does interviews with anyone who will listen. Who knows how many gaffes Palin would if she talked in an unscripted forum.

Palin is not being critized because of ther clothes (at least not bby serious people). She is "roasted" because she is a piece of fluff. She is the least qualified vice-presidential candidate in history. Her sole qualification is that she is a female. She certainly is a good speaker, intelligent and has the potential to be a good presidential candiate some day, but right now she is not ready. She does not know enough, and her juvenile mistakes in Alaska are not old enough.

[bush_cheney2004]

What was the leader of the free world doing while congress was sleep at the wheel ?

Spending money appropriated by the Congress.

This problem may have bi-paritsan roots, but the reason it go so big was that it was the only thing holding the Bush economy together. He let this get out of control. He faced a recession from the Clinton era dot com crash and globalization - none of which were his fault. But instead of letting the economy sort itself out as it should (and possibly not get a 2nd term because of it), he decided he would cheat. He rode the great lie of the housing bubble to victory. He borrowed a bazillion dollars and pretended it was not really borrowing because his tax cuts would actually lower the deficit in a few years. He turned the dollar into a green peso to hide a stock market collapes.

Almost true....Clinton actually signed the legislation that removed the final protections from the Depression era (e.g. Glass-Steagull Act).

Bush's Treasury told Congress that the housing / mortgage giveaway was getting out of control.

This was not something that snuck up on us, like Al Queda. "Mr Housing Bubble" T-shirts came out years ago. Jokes about "liar loans" have gotten old. This was a game of old maid. Bush just figured it would be McCain or Obama that would get stuck with the old maid. When they got stuck with the old maid, it would be their lack of true conservative vision that would be to blame.

Old news.....NINJA loans...No Income No Job No Assets. Blaming Bush alone is just plain stupid.

He could have cracked down on this sort of stuff. Actually made sure people went to jail for committing crimes. Forced banks to require people be able to pay back the loan they get, etc. But that would mean the everyone would see the true state of the economy (hey!, we are not actually making anything anymore). Jobs going to China is a pretty abstract concept when your house goes up $50K a year.

He did....see Enron indictments and convictions. Stop whining about "we" not making anything as if fixing any of this would have saved Ontario's ass. Sheesh.....

[the janitor]

It was called sarcasm.

Sorry, it's so hard to tell sometimes on these forums.

[peter_puck]

Spending money appropriated by the Congress.

Silly me, I thought it was the president who did the budget. Let me guess, it is still the Bush tax cuts, but its the Democratic Congress massive deficit ? The Republicans controlled congress and they rubber stamped everything he did. He was the leader of their party. It is like saying Saddam was not really responsible for anything, it was the soldiers that shot people.

The Republican controlled congress managed to oppose Clinton spending measures, thus resulting in much of the surpluses of the 90's. If they had with Bush, we would not be in this problem. But blaming the foot soldiers for not stopping the general is bad logic.

Almost true....Clinton actually signed the legislation that removed the final protections from the Depression era (e.g. Glass-Steagull Act).

This scandal is caused by all sorts of laws. I know the partisans are now going back in the books to find some vague way to blame this on Clinton, but its not the point. Even if Clinton was somehow 100 percent responsible, nobody knew at the time what would happen. Bush knew what was going on, he just didn't stop it.

Bush's Treasury told Congress that the housing / mortgage giveaway was getting out of control.

and Bush did ......

He did....see Enron indictments and convictions.

I was refering to mortgage fraud. People lying about their income. Mortgage brokers lying to their clients. How many people got in trouble for that. But talking about Enron indictments. You think that even scratched the surface? How many companies "beat by a penny" before that mess. How many do now ?

Stop whining about "we" not making anything as if fixing any of this would have saved Ontario's ass. Sheesh.....

No, it is a global problem with no easy solution. The point is, Ontario did not react by giving everyone a massive tax break with borrowed money and tell them everything would be okay becaus the tax cuts would actually balance the budget. Ontario, which faces the additional challenge of the collapsing US dollar has fared a lot better than similar US states. Compare Michigan to Ontario. Compare Detroit to Toronto. Last year, the Ontario budget was balanced.

[bush_cheney2004]

Silly me, I thought it was the president who did the budget. Let me guess, it is still the Bush tax cuts, but its the Democratic Congress massive deficit ? The Republicans controlled congress and they rubber stamped everything he did. He was the leader of their party. It is like saying Saddam was not really responsible for anything, it was the soldiers that shot people.

Thank you for admitting that a president can't spend it all on his own....you are learning.

The Republican controlled congress managed to oppose Clinton spending measures, thus resulting in much of the surpluses of the 90's. If they had with Bush, we would not be in this problem. But blaming the foot soldiers for not stopping the general is bad logic.

Even better....the false wealth and real debt/losses of the late 90's were not bailed out by government.

This scandal is caused by all sorts of laws. I know the partisans are now going back in the books to find some vague way to blame this on Clinton, but its not the point. Even if Clinton was somehow 100 percent responsible, nobody knew at the time what would happen. Bush knew what was going on, he just didn't stop it.

In other words, you have no idea what the specific legislation and policies were. Bush will be gone by January...better find another whipping boy. Reminds me of the great Trudeau-Mulroney debate....as in who dicked up Canada's economy worse....no wonder you want somebody else to blame.

I was refering to mortgage fraud. People lying about their income. Mortgage brokers lying to their clients. How many people got in trouble for that. But talking about Enron indictments. You think that even scratched the surface? How many companies "beat by a penny" before that mess. How many do now ?

And I was just answering your question. Plnty of people have ben convicted for mortgage fraud.

No, it is a global problem with no easy solution. The point is, Ontario did not react by giving everyone a massive tax break with borrowed money and tell them everything would be okay becaus the tax cuts would actually balance the budget.

No, Ontario gave foreign corporations massive tax breaks right up front! Only to lose their ass anyway...brilliant!

Ontario, which faces the additional challenge of the collapsing US dollar has fared a lot better than similar US states. Compare Michigan to Ontario. Compare Detroit to Toronto. Last year, the Ontario budget was balanced.

Then why are you whining about the United States's problems? If all is well, why don't you enjoy that balanced budget and call it a day? The Americans sure as hell aren't thinking about Ontario.

[Liam]

These are typical liberal responses. When Palin first was nominated and no immediate interviews with the MSM were scheduled, leftwingers on this forum were complaining loudly that she must face the hard questions and if she didn't she wouldn't be vetted properly (although dozens of media types, lawyers and the like were air dropped into Alaska to dig up such nuggets such as her recent baby was actually her daughter's, etc). Now that she's being made available to the MSM, surprise surprise, liberals don't like her anyway.

There was never a question that liberals were going to suddenly like Palin if she gave interviews. The liberal outcry was over the secretiveness and the path of isolation the McCain campaign opted to take where Palin was concerned. By shielding Palin from all questions (even cream puffs), the McCain campaign reinforced the liberals' suspicions that she was not ready. And now that they have finally put her out there, her lack of knowledge about basic issues facing the country are self evident. She is simply not ready and she should have never been placed in this position nor should she have allowed herself to be placed in this position.

That's my one criticism of Palin: that she let her personal ambition tell her she is ready to run in the big leagues. She isn't, that much is now clear. Palin's experience and readiness is what it is and she should have enough self awareness to question her own capacity. She didn't, but I can understand how egotistic politicians (they're all egotists), see the dazzle, the lure of the national spotlight and sometimes cannot say No. The bigger problem for me, still, is that Palin is the person McCain thinks is ready to be commander in chief and steward of the economy (to the extent the president acts in that manner) should he die or be incapacitated. McCain's judgement on this is so far off as to appear a joke and disqualifies him as a candidate.

[bush_cheney2004]

....The bigger problem for me, still, is that Palin is the person McCain thinks is ready to be commander in chief and steward of the economy (to the extent the president acts in that manner) should he die or be incapacitated. McCain's judgement on this is so far off as to appear a joke and disqualifies him as a candidate.

Then I guess that only leaves us with Joe Biden, after eliminating Obama for only being slightly more "ready" than Palin...and he is nearly as old as McCain.

[Liam]

Then I guess that only leaves us with Joe Biden, after eliminating Obama for only being slightly more "ready" than Palin...and he is nearly as old as McCain.

Agreed, but only if you also eliminate McCain for utterly lacking the temperment and judgment necessary for the job. I could live with a President Biden. Might not like it all the time, but I trust he wouldn't go nuclear(1) on some issue solely as a distraction from whatever crisis he cannot manage.

(1)"Nucular" for those of you who are Republicans

[bush_cheney2004]

Agreed, but only if you also eliminate McCain for utterly lacking the temperment and judgment necessary for the job. I could live with a President Biden. Might not like it all the time, but I trust he wouldn't go nuclear(1) on some issue solely as a distraction from whatever crisis he cannot manage.

Biden would just be more of the same old same old...and I mean really old (like McCain). So much for "change". Let's face it as Americans, this crop of candidates is pretty weak no matter how you look at it. We probably don't deserve anything better.

(1)"Nucular" for those of you who are Republicans

"Nucular" is a common and acceptable expression, particularly in the US South. That's how President Jimmy Carter (nuclear trained naval officer / engineer) pronounced it too. It's no different from instantly recognizing a Canadian when we hear "a-boot".

Edited September 27, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[sharkman]

There was never a question that liberals were going to suddenly like Palin if she gave interviews. The liberal outcry was over the secretiveness and the path of isolation the McCain campaign opted to take where Palin was concerned. By shielding Palin from all questions (even cream puffs), the McCain campaign reinforced the liberals' suspicions that she was not ready. And now that they have finally put her out there, her lack of knowledge about basic issues facing the country are self evident. She is simply not ready and she should have never been placed in this position nor should she have allowed herself to be placed in this position.

That's my one criticism of Palin: that she let her personal ambition tell her she is ready to run in the big leagues. She isn't, that much is now clear. Palin's experience and readiness is what it is and she should have enough self awareness to question her own capacity. She didn't, but I can understand how egotistic politicians (they're all egotists), see the dazzle, the lure of the national spotlight and sometimes cannot say No. The bigger problem for me, still, is that Palin is the person McCain thinks is ready to be commander in chief and steward of the economy (to the extent the president acts in that manner) should he die or be incapacitated. McCain's judgement on this is so far off as to appear a joke and disqualifies him as a candidate.

If McCain played his cards close to his chest on the VP pick, that's not a bad strategy. What you are reading as Palin's lack of knowledge, I see as the perspective of an outsider to Washington. I again think of my response to your earlier criticism of Palin, except it fits Obama too. No experience at the game, not ready for prime time. He can give a good speech, but can't run the country with that skill. The difference is Palin is only running for VP.

[BubberMiley]

I'm still not sure if the campaign suspension is over. There's no deal in Washington yet, and even though McCain showed up for the debate, has he declared it on again?

Or is he just going to resume the campaign without mentioning it, hoping no one remembers his inexplicably erratic behaviour?

[sharkman]

Yes, he beat Obama in the first debate on his time off.

[BubberMiley]

Yes, he beat Obama in the first debate on his time off.

The campaign is still suspended? Because his campaign released an ad that was "approved" by John McCain, using footage from the debate, before the debate was even over.

I guess you got your information that McCain won the debate from the ad on the Wall Street Journal webpage that ran yesterday, claiming victory about 12 hours before the debate. All the reports since the debate, however, have given Obama the victory. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PRE...-09-27-14-45-15

Edited September 27, 2008 by BubberMiley

[PoliticalCitizen]

We all know now how that went...

Good luck on the elections, sen. McCain!

Or should I say good luck counting the votes