Soviet Socialist States of America

[peter_puck]

With the recent buy-outs of big banks by the US Government taxpayers ended up collectively owning these companies.

Does it not transform USA into a... Communist country?

I don't think buyout is the right word, and no, it does not transform the US into a communist country. If it were a communist country, the people who created and profited from this whole debacle would be stung from lamposts. Instead they are living in giant mansions and complaining about their taxes.

In a Communist country the government nationalize the means of wealth production. The US just nationalizes bad debt and bad ideas(you think they would have learned the last time)

[WIP]

Those are the unintended consequences of good intentions.

There's no disputing what caused the "sub-prime" problems.

1. President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loansthat he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

2. Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

When you mix in greed, and gross mismanagement, with abhorrent social/economic policy, you arrive at the financial mess we're seeing today.

Even Robert Reich, United States Secretary of Labor, serving during the Clinton Administration references the same problems.

REICH: In the latter years of the Clinton administration -- when I was not there any longer, I should add -- there was an attempt by Alan Greenspan and Bob Rubin and a few others to deregulate financial markets, and they did. They split commercial banking off from investment banking. And many people say, "Well, that was the beginning of the problem," and then, of course, in 2003-2004, Alan Greenspan reduced short-term interest rates to the point where every single bank wanted to lend money. I mean, if you could stand up straight you could get a bank loan because there was so much pressure to get that money out the door. Money was so cheap. So, yes, there is some responsibility on Democrats, some responsibility on Alan Greenspan and the Fed. (MSNBC)

Republican propagandists are not going to be able to spin their way out of this ditch! The subprime crisis couldn't have happened if banking deregulation hadn't removed the risk of making bad loans, when banks were allowed to repackage subprime loans as mortgage securities. And Republican propagandists can't blame deregulation on supporters within the Clinton Administration, when the driving force for creating the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 was the same weasel who now serves as John McCain's chief economic adviser:

McCain has taken economic advice from his longtime political friend, former Texas Sen. Phil Gramm, who left his role as co-chairman of McCain's campaign after he called Americans a “nation of whiners” in a “mental recession.” McCain aides say he is no longer officially advising the campaign.

An avowed deregulator, Gramm sponsored and shepherded the 1999 bill to passage.

“I am proud to be here because this is an important bill. It is a deregulatory bill,” Gramm said at the bill signing. “I believe that that is the wave of the future.”

According to regulators involved in the process, Gramm buried the swaps measure in an 11,000-page omnibus spending bill.

“There are plenty of other people’s fingerprints on it, but as I read the legislative record without [Gramm’s] support the CFMA would have never happened,” said Michael Greenberger, who directed the Commodity Futures Trading Commission's division of trading and markets in the late 1990s. “It was a very nontransparent legislative process, and Gramm was part of that maneuvering effort.”

[Shady]

Republican propagandists are not going to be able to spin their way out of this ditch! The subprime crisis couldn't have happened if banking deregulation hadn't removed the risk of making bad loans, when banks were allowed to repackage subprime loans as mortgage securities. And Republican propagandists can't blame deregulation on supporters within the Clinton Administration, when the driving force for creating the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 was the same weasel who now serves as John McCain's chief economic adviser:

McCain has taken economic advice from his longtime political friend, former Texas Sen. Phil Gramm, who left his role as co-chairman of McCain's campaign after he called Americans a “nation of whiners” in a “mental recession.” McCain aides say he is no longer officially advising the campaign.

An avowed deregulator, Gramm sponsored and shepherded the 1999 bill to passage.

“I am proud to be here because this is an important bill. It is a deregulatory bill,” Gramm said at the bill signing. “I believe that that is the wave of the future.”

According to regulators involved in the process, Gramm buried the swaps measure in an 11,000-page omnibus spending bill.

“There are plenty of other people’s fingerprints on it, but as I read the legislative record without [Gramm’s] support the CFMA would have never happened,” said Michael Greenberger, who directed the Commodity Futures Trading Commission's division of trading and markets in the late 1990s. “It was a very nontransparent legislative process, and Gramm was part of that maneuvering effort.”

And when the Government pressures financial institutions into lending money to people who can't afford it, it goes way beyond so-called deregulation. The unintended consquences we see effecting the economy today is all the result of Government/liberals goal of "affordable housing" at any cost. And when Republican's, in particular, John McCain wanted to fix the problems, several years ago, who stopped them? Democrats, at every turn. Those are indisputable facts. Sorry.

[stevoh]

And when the Government pressures financial institutions into lending money to people who can't afford it, it goes way beyond so-called deregulation. The unintended consquences we see effecting the economy today is all the result of Government/liberals goal of "affordable housing" at any cost. And when Republican's, in particular, John McCain wanted to fix the problems, several years ago, who stopped them? Democrats, at every turn. Those are indisputable facts. Sorry.

Want another indisputable fact?

The meltdown occured on the republicans watch.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Want another indisputable fact?

The meltdown occured on the republicans watch.

I have a question: Can the US Federal Government go BANKRUPT?

How much further into debt can they afford to go?

They will be at -11 Trill after the 700 Bill bailout is approved...

[guyser]

This might interest some....The United States of France.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...00.html?cnn=yes

[PoliticalCitizen]

This might interest some....The United States of France.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...00.html?cnn=yes

Hehehe

Intersting view as well

[moderateamericain]

I read the wall street journal today, and they had an article on the 700 billion dollar purchase by the government. Unfucking believable. We may have well done some seriously irreversible damage to our economy. It could take a generation to recover.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I read the wall street journal today, and they had an article on the 700 billion dollar purchase by the government. Unfucking believable. We may have well done some seriously irreversible damage to our economy. It could take a generation to recover.

You may be right, especially when you add that to the existing 10+ Trill of national debt...

Bush's reputation was true - he ruins everything he runs

Let's hope he doesn't get elected as anything after this...

[bush_cheney2004]

Bush's reputation was true - he ruins everything he runs

Let's hope he doesn't get elected as anything after this...

Yikes! So what is Russia's excuse?????

[Shady]

Want another indisputable fact?

The meltdown occured on the republicans watch.

Yes, and as I've already stated, Republican's tried to fix the problems, unfortunately Democrats blocked such efforts. I guess when you have two governmental financial institutions as piggy banks the way the Dems have, you're reluctant to change.

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae <----- FROM 2003!

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates

The New York Times

And what did we get from the Dems?

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

And

''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said

And they proceeded to block the legislation. All under the "good intentions" of affordable housing. Well, we can all see for ourselves, what the good intentions of Democrats/liberals, have done to the economy. Never forget.

[bush_cheney2004]

...And they proceeded to block the legislation. All under the "good intentions" of affordable housing. Well, we can all see for ourselves, what the good intentions of Democrats/liberals, have done to the economy. Never forget.

Spot on..but it gets even better. Pressures to champion "affordable housing" included attacking the descriminatory lending practice called "red lining", forcing loan poducts on unqualified buyers and inflated poperty valuations for the 'Hood. Now these homes are abandoned to cities as tax foreclosures and eyesores, valuable only to thieves looking to steal the copper plumbing.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Spot on..but it gets even better. Pressures to champion "affordable housing" included attacking the descriminatory lending practice called "red lining", forcing loan poducts on unqualified buyers and inflated poperty valuations for the 'Hood. Now these homes are abandoned to cities as tax foreclosures and eyesores, valuable only to thieves looking to steal the copper plumbing.

Damn Lib...errr, Democrats!!!

I'm sure McCain will fix all that... especially with Palin's financial insight...

[eyeball]

With the recent buy-outs of big banks by the US Government taxpayers ended up collectively owning these companies.

Does it not transform USA into a... Communist country?

No.

But it does raise fundamental questions of the role of the State. Libertarians and anarchists pretend that a civilized society can exist (indeed can only exist) without the State or with a minimal State.

I disagree.

So do I.

Given current technology, the State is best placed to accomplish certain tasks compared with any other institution. Among these tasks is the role of ultimate guarantor.

The State however is in the worst possible place, from our perepctive, to ultimately oversee how and with what its guarantees are based on.

Leftists, who sometimes prone the importance of the State, have never given any serious thought to what role the State is ideally suited to accomplish.

I've given more thought about the role we the people are ideally suited for and given the technology of the Internet and broadcast television monitoring it seems we're missing the opportunity to achieve total public awareness of what the State is doing.

Why conservative thinking folks are usually always the first to uphold and protect the State from an invasion of it's secrecy is a bit of a mystery but I suspect it has something to do with an overarching respect for authority coupled with a desire to sic the State on...leftists for starters.

Edited September 24, 2008 by eyeball

[the janitor]

Yikes! So what is Russia's excuse?????

I can see that as President Bush's political epitaph: At least he wasn't as bad as the Russians.

Looks like the US is finally seeing the light. With the bailout they are finally becoming more like Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

I can see that as President Bush's political epitaph: At least he wasn't as bad as the Russians.

Looks like the US is finally seeing the light. With the bailout they are finally becoming more like Canada.

Nah...Canada will just have to find somebody else to help define itself.

[the janitor]

Nah...Canada will just have to find somebody else to help define itself.

Canada...What every American wishes America was!

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada...What every American wishes America was!

No, most Americans think Canada is a theme park where they fight about French vs. English and multiculturalism to past the time during long, cold winters.

[the janitor]

No, most Americans think Canada is a theme park where they fight about French vs. English and multiculturalism to past the time during long, cold winters.

That's they're problem. When it comes to what Americans think of Canada, frankly my dear....

[bush_cheney2004]

That's they're problem. When it comes to what Americans think of Canada, frankly my dear....

That's my point.....Americans don't think about Canada much at all. But the reverse is not true based on the number of threads here at MLW or Canadian "me too" media.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I can see that as President Bush's political epitaph: At least he wasn't as bad as the Russians.

Looks like the US is finally seeing the light. With the bailout they are finally becoming more like Canada.

I'm afraid noone can challenge Bush's to ruin what he leads: not the Canadians, not the Russians and not even Iran's Ahmadinejad

I think he will go down in history not only as the dumbest, but also as the LAST CAPTIATLIST President of USA

[stevoh]

Yes, and as I've already stated, Republican's tried to fix the problems, unfortunately Democrats blocked such efforts. I guess when you have two governmental financial institutions as piggy banks the way the Dems have, you're reluctant to change.

And they proceeded to block the legislation. All under the "good intentions" of affordable housing. Well, we can all see for ourselves, what the good intentions of Democrats/liberals, have done to the economy. Never forget.

Weren't the senate and house of representatives both republican majorities at this time (2003)?

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm afraid noone can challenge Bush's to ruin what he leads: not the Canadians, not the Russians and not even Iran's Ahmadinejad

I think he will go down in history not only as the dumbest, but also as the LAST CAPTIATLIST President of USA

Even a bad day in capitalist USA is better than the best day in Russia....nyet?

[PoliticalCitizen]

Even a bad day in capitalist USA is better than the best day in Russia....nyet?

Da, comrade bush_cheney!

[the janitor]

Even a bad day in capitalist USA is better than the best day in Russia....nyet?

Normally, I would agree. However I think the US has some pretty bed days coming...