What Ails The Liberals?

[M.Dancer]

OTTAWA — Pierre Trudeau had John Turner, Jean Chrétien had Paul Martin, Lester Pearson had Robert Winters and they all had Mitchell Sharp – men whose economic pedigrees gave the Liberal Party the balance that has perpetuated its hegemony.

But the party that has been so skillful at complementing its progressive arm with a business side appears to be flying on one wing these days. The so-called natural governing party of old has allowed itself to be characterized as just one of a cluster of parties on the left of the political spectrum, competing for limited votes. In the second week of the election campaign, the Liberals who slew the deficit in the mid-1990s are portrayed by their political opponents and commentators alike as a risky economic choice.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...5/BNStory/Front

This in a nut shell is why the Liberals will not do well October 4th. Canadians as a whole massively reject the left wiong alternatives and the liberals today seem to want to compete against the Greens and the NDP for the <20% who are attracted to the left wing....

What the Liberals need to do after this election is to find another Roy McLaren who has serious business and financial credibility and can manage an economy like Canada's.

[Smallc]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...5/BNStory/Front

This in a nut shell is why the Liberals will not do well October 4th. Canadians as a whole massively reject the left wiong alternatives and the liberals today seem to want to compete against the Greens and the NDP for the <20% who are attracted to the left wing....

What the Liberals need to do after this election is to find another Roy McLaren who has serious business and financial credibility and can manage an economy like Canada's.

Why would the Liberals be worried about October 4th?

[guyser]

This in a nut shell is why the Liberals will not do well October 4th.

Is this why Bob Rae is now seen with Dion?

[Moonbox]

I think the left wing parties in canada are completely out of touch with what Canadians actually care about.

The Green Party campaigns for primarily the environment but as we can see that's not really something Canadians are putting much priority in during a quasi-recession.

The NDP and it's leader are the biggest joke in Canadian politics right now. They'll fall flat on their faces again this year and never be an official opposition let alone a government. Their policies are so directly focused on pandering to have-nots, unions or government funded workers that anyone anyone outside these groups would never even dream of voting for them.

The Liberals killed themselves by following Dion down the road back to the Trudeau-era way of thinking.

[Moonbox]

Is this why Bob Rae is now seen with Dion?

What are you trying to say? I totally don't understand what you're getting at....

[Smallc]

I think the left wing parties in canada are completely out of touch with what Canadians actually care about.

The Green Party campaigns for primarily the environment but as we can see that's not really something Canadians are putting much priority in during a quasi-recession.

The NDP and it's leader are the biggest joke in Canadian politics right now. They'll fall flat on their faces again this year and never be an official opposition let alone a government. Their policies are so directly focused on pandering to have-nots, unions or government funded workers that anyone anyone outside these groups would never even dream of voting for them.

The Liberals killed themselves by following Dion down the road back to the Trudeau-era way of thinking.

Thats one opinion, but the fact is that more people vote for the centre - left than for the centre - right.

[eyeball]

So it'll take another 4 or 5 years of the same sort of economic prescritions that have wrecked the US economy; cutting taxes in the all wrong places, boosting spending for useless shit like wars on fill-in-blank-here to convince Canadians just how regressive the Conservatives really are.

In the meantime it'll become increasingly clear that Harper really only represents a very narrow spectrum of interests in Canada; Big corporations, cops and soldiers. His vision for Canadian people is that we become a Leave it To Beaver/Stepford nation of moms and dads and kids who all go to church, belong to gun clubs, obey every law that's imposed on us, and rat out any of our neighbours that don't conform. That certainly seems to be what Harper's followers where I live are gearing up for. One fellow I know said it will be "awesome".

I only have to look at Harper's real grassroots supporters where I live to get my best sense of where this country is headed under him. I doubt very much if it'll be as awesome as advertised.

[M.Dancer]

So it'll take another 4 or 5 years of the same sort of economic prescritions that have wrecked the US economy; cutting taxes in the all wrong places, boosting spending for useless shit like wars on fill-in-blank-here to convince Canadians just how regressive the Conservatives really are.

Shame that isn't what is ailing the US economy. It giving mortages to people who couldn't afford them and selling the notes to companies who didn't have the money to back them. That practice has noting at all to do with either the Republicans or the Democrats as the practice has been going on for years and has finnally come back to bite them...and to the point, those lending practices aren't happening here.

Which means agaibn your point isn't relevant.

[Moonbox]

Thats one opinion, but the fact is that more people vote for the centre - left than for the centre - right.

Oh? From what I've seen in the polls and previous elections the conservatives and the liberals (who of recent have both been right of centre for the last 25 years) have decimated the left alternatives (who've never controlled 50% of parliament) in every election.

The NDP and Green Party, like I said, are irrelevant to all but the far left and the vast majority of Canadians and the rest of the vote is split between the red and the blue. Current polls show that between the cons and the libs that accounts for almost 70% of the popular vote. Now the Liberals certainly weren't a left leaning government under Chretien/Martin but Dion has them leaning further that way than they've ever been since Trudeau. What does that tell you?

[bush_cheney2004]

So it'll take another 4 or 5 years of the same sort of economic prescritions that have wrecked the US economy; cutting taxes in the all wrong places, boosting spending for useless shit like wars on fill-in-blank-here to convince Canadians just how regressive the Conservatives really are....

Nah, Canada has already proven it can dick things up economically all by itself without pretendng to be Americans hell bent on insolvency. The good news is that once the bleeding stops, the provinces can fight over equalization payments! Rinse and repeat.....

[eyeball]

Shame that isn't what is ailing the US economy. It giving mortages to people who couldn't afford them and selling the notes to companies who didn't have the money to back them. That practice has noting at all to do with either the Republicans or the Democrats as the practice has been going on for years and has finnally come back to bite them...and to the point, those lending practices aren't happening here.

Which means agaibn your point isn't relevant.

What's ailing the US economy is the home equity bubble the Bush administration encouraged to fuel the consumption binge that it prescribed to keep the economy afloat. An economy that was wracked by its war costs and the export of its manufacturing sector overseas.

Recent US lending practices seem on par with an economy that's just about been de-regulated to the point that its essentially become a vast Ponzie scheme. Harper and his so called fiscal conservatives likewise prescribe getting as far out of the way of the economy and market forces (read greed) as they can. This of course leave all sorts of time for Harper to focus on his party's moral engineering agenda.

Harper's goal is nothing less than to make the neo-conservative way of thinking the natural governing principle for Canada for generations to come.

[M.Dancer]

What's ailing the US economy is the home equity bubble the Bush administration encouraged to fuel the consumption binge that it prescribed to keep the economy afloat. An economy that was wracked by its war costs and the export of its manufacturing sector overseas.

Making up stuff will not make your post any less irrelevant or non sensical. The sub prime mortgages go back beyond Bush...and the war has not wrecked the economy. Anyone who bets against the US economy takes a suckers bet.

[Smallc]

Oh? From what I've seen in the polls and previous elections the conservatives and the liberals (who of recent have both been right of centre for the last 25 years) have decimated the left alternatives (who've never controlled 50% of parliament) in every election.

Maybe your right. I guess most Canadians are in the centre, rather than the left or the right.

[Keepitsimple]

In the meantime it'll become increasingly clear that Harper really only represents a very narrow spectrum of interests in Canada; Big corporations, cops and soldiers.

It was the Liberals who were in bed with all the big corporations. That's why when the financing laws were change to prohibit large corporate donations - the Liberals fell flat on their face and are now in danger of bankruptcy.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Keepitsimple

[M.Dancer]

Maybe your right. I guess most Canadians are in the centre, rather than the left or the right.

And whether we admit it or not, in the centre is where you find the Conservatives. Now when two parties share the same turf the inevitably share the same ideas (see the Liberal Party and The Green Liberal Party) If the Liberals are to come back they are going to need look at the policies of today's Conservatives and see how they can improve them. They must take the initiative in developing the arctic, strengthening our sovereignty, rearming and reinvigoration our armed forces and work towards breaking down inter-provincial and international trade barriers.

Once that has begun the Liberals can look again at reaffirming the social values that Canadians cherish and aspire to.

[eyeball]

It was the Liberals who were in bed with all the big corporations. That's why when the financing laws were change to prohibit large corporate donations - the Liberals fell flat on their face and are now in danger of bankruptcy.

Its a good thing too. This still doesn't change the fact that Conservatives think corporations are the best thing since sliced bread and will do whatever they can to put their interets first.

[M.Dancer]

Its a good thing too. This still doesn't change the fact that Conservatives think corporations are the best thing since sliced bread and will do whatever they can to put their interets first.

Sliced bread is over rated. Putting the interests of corporations forward, the machines that fuel our economy, put bread on our table and ensure our collective livlehoods can not be ever overrated.

[Topaz]

The recent polls have Harper ahead but when another poll asked who would be your second choice, the NDP was first, followed by the Libs, then the Green Party and then Cons, followed by the Bloc. There was another poll that voted Layton to be second choice of PM, so you may see the NDP as the official opposition party or even form a minority. Tonight, CBC is hosting the leaders and its a call in and Layton is on tonight at 8pm EDT.

[eyeball]

I've got nothing against corporations per se, in fact I own one, I'd just rather they receive their charters from the municipalities and regional districts they operate in. I want my community to ensure its own interests are taken into consideration and that the surrounding ecosystems they depend on for their livelihoods are protected for future generations, not Ottawa or Victoria. They can look after their own region's interests themselves and leave us to look after ours.

[M.Dancer]

I've got nothing against corporations per se, in fact I own one, I'd just rather they receive their charters from the municipalities and regional districts they operate in. I want my community to ensure its own interests are taken into consideration and that the surrounding ecosystems they depend on for their livelihoods are protected for future generations, not Ottawa or Victoria. They can look after their own region's interests themselves and leave us to look after ours.

Why should they have more say than the other earthlings?

[M.Dancer]

The recent polls have Harper ahead but when another poll asked who would be your second choice, the NDP was first, followed by the Libs, then the Green Party and then Cons, followed by the Bloc. There was another poll that voted Layton to be second choice of PM, so you may see the NDP as the official opposition party or even form a minority. Tonight, CBC is hosting the leaders and its a call in and Layton is on tonight at 8pm EDT.

Aside from never posting a link, do you think you might be able to stick to the topic...I mean really, what does the CBC covering the leaders have to do with the problems with the Liberals?

[M.Dancer]

I've got nothing against corporations per se, in fact I own one, I'd just rather they receive their charters from the municipalities and regional districts they operate in. I want my community to ensure its own interests are taken into consideration and that the surrounding ecosystems they depend on for their livelihoods are protected for future generations, not Ottawa or Victoria. They can look after their own region's interests themselves and leave us to look after ours.

Of course you do. Being a penny ante corporation selling products of dubious benefits to unsuspecting marks, being able to convince the dogcatcher, school trustee and library committee's ladies auxiliary that your method of shoe box accounting is sound and your products, like anthrax and tuberculosis are organic and natural. So a hodge podge of standards suits you fine.

But real investors require real reporting and real corporations require real regulations so that accounting practices are standardized and investors can have play on as level field as possible.

To be perfectly honest I'm sure there are more than a few corporations that would like your fantasy charter land....think Union Carbide and then think about your city council and there new condos in Majorca....

[kengs333]

Why do you guys even bother discussing the merits of various parties? The media has decided that the Conservatives are going to form a majority government.

[kengs333]

Aside from never posting a link, do you think you might be able to stick to the topic...I mean really, what does the CBC covering the leaders have to do with the problems with the Liberals?

CBC and the media in general has been paying more attention to Harper and being less critical of his conduct. Some of the stuff that has happened so far would have been positively scandalous had other parties done it. In Oakville yesterday, he basically mocked protesters and made a Kim Campbell-esque crack about lost jobs in Ontario. He should be being fried for what he said, but the media hasn't done anything about. Elizabeth May certainly would be lymched by a raving crowd of suited neocons had she dared say that.

[M.Dancer]

CBC and the media in general has been paying more attention to Harper and being less critical of his conduct. Some of the stuff that has happened so far would have been positively scandalous had other parties done it. In Oakville yesterday, he basically mocked protesters and made a Kim Campbell-esque crack about lost jobs in Ontario. He should be being fried for what he said, but the media hasn't done anything about. Elizabeth May certainly would be lymched by a raving crowd of suited neocons had she dared say that.

Mocking Protesters! OMG! Nooooooo!

Chretien would have throttled them....