We Are Witnessing The Effects Of Neo-Conservative Economics

[Joesixpack5]

8 years of Bush + 2 years of Harper = underregulated markets, crisis, bankruptcies, massive debt, corporate greed, growing poverty rates, corruption, tainted/poisonous products (due to lack of inspectors) etc.

The CEOs have done incredibly well. But they make up less than .1% of the population. The bottom 2/3rds of society deserves to blame Harper & Bush for their right-wing authoritarian corporatism/militarism, and subsequent economic collapse. In just 2 years, Harper (and his buddy Bush) have plunged Canada towards debt, economic stagnation, a housing crash, growing bankruptcies, rising energy and food costs, all while giving BILLIONS of dollars to the military and corportate elites.

Harper & Bush/McCain must be penalized for their faith-based corporatism and militarism. They must take responsibility for the effects of their applied economic policies. They must be voted against by all reasonable North Americans.

Center-left Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark) and most of Europe has recently had FAR less economic difficulties then the US and has avoided the North American Neo-Con economic collapse. But they still feel the repercussions.

If we vote ABC : Anything But Conservative : we can voice opposition to Neo-Con corporatism, militarism, and blind, rampaging destruction.

A vote for Harper is a vote for Republican policies : tax cuts, corporate welfare, national debt, cuts to social programs and greatly increased military spending. If Canada follows the Bush-Cheney path, we'll experience the same effects.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Wild Bill]

8 years of Bush + 2 years of Harper = underregulated markets, crisis, bankruptcies, massive debt, corporate greed, growing poverty rates, corruption, tainted/poisonous products (due to lack of inspectors) etc.

The CEOs have done incredibly well. But they make up less than .1% of the population. The bottom 2/3rds of society deserves to blame Harper & Bush for their right-wing authoritarian corporatism/militarism, and subsequent economic collapse. In just 2 years, Harper (and his buddy Bush) have plunged Canada towards debt, economic stagnation, a housing crash, growing bankruptcies, rising energy and food costs, all while giving BILLIONS of dollars to the military and corportate elites.

Harper & Bush/McCain must be penalized for their faith-based corporatism and militarism. They must take responsibility for the effects of their applied economic policies. They must be voted against by all reasonable North Americans.

Center-left Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark) and most of Europe has recently had FAR less economic difficulties then the US and has avoided the North American Neo-Con economic collapse. But they still feel the repercussions.

If we vote ABC : Anything But Conservative : we can voice opposition to Neo-Con corporatism, militarism, and blind, rampaging destruction.

A vote for Harper is a vote for Republican policies : tax cuts, corporate welfare, national debt, cuts to social programs and greatly increased military spending. If Canada follows the Bush-Cheney path, we'll experience the same effects.

"ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons.

Who's castle is that?

WOMAN: King of the who?

ARTHUR: The Britons.

WOMAN: Who are the Britons?

ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.

WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous

collective.

DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship.

A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.

DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--

ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives

in that castle?

WOMAN: No one live there.

ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?

WOMAN: We don't have a lord.

ARTHUR: What?

DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take

it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

ARTHUR: Yes.

DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified

at a special biweekly meeting.

ARTHUR: Yes, I see.

DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--

ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?

ARTHUR: I am your king!

WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.

ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.

WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?

ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,

[angels sing]

her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur

from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,

Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.

[singing stops]

That is why I am your king!

DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords

is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power

derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical

aquatic ceremony.

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power

just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just

because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd

put me away!

ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!

DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!

ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!

DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that,

eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me,

you saw it didn't you?"

After reading the opening post, this quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail just seemed appropriate, somehow. Certainly the prose is very similar. Perhaps they have the same writer?

[August1991]

8 years of Bush + 2 years of Harper = underregulated markets, crisis, bankruptcies, massive debt, corporate greed, growing poverty rates, corruption, tainted/poisonous products (due to lack of inspectors) etc.

After 8 years of Bush and neo-con capitalism, we have $700 laptops and high-speed Internet.

Joesixpack5, in 2000 when Bush took power, you couldn't post on the Internet as easily as you do now. Fewer people would read you. Going back to 1992, when Clinton became president, the Internet was an academic exercice.

In the past 20 years, the Berlin Wall has fallen, the Soviet Union has disappeared and capitalist Neo-Cons have created the Internet so that you can post nonsense.

----

The Left must really rethink again what it is all about. Some day, Leftists will understand that America is not the President in power. Neo-Cons understand that markets mean change, understand the freedom to choose, and understand that free choice means consequences.

Sorry, Joesixpack5, life is on the side of the NeoCons.

Edited September 15, 2008 by August1991

[Joesixpack5]

After 8 years of Bush and neo-con capitalism, we have $700 laptops and high-speed Internet.

Joesixpack5, in 2000 when Bush took power, you couldn't post on the Internet as easily as you do now. Fewer people would read you. Going back to 1992, when Clinton became president, the Internet was an academic exercice.

Some day, people will understand that America is not the president in power. Markets mean change and "neo-cons" prefer the freedom to choose, consequences and free market change. Sorry, Joesixpack5, life is on the side of the NeoCons.

In the past 20 years, the Berlin Wall has fallen, the Soviet Union has disappeared and capitalist Neo-Cons have created the Internet so that you can post nonsense.

----

The Left must really rethink again what it is all about.

The modern left isn't the old school left, and the quality of life in Scandinavia and Europe proves it. They have more economic stabilty and far lower poverty rates than the US. Remember, almost everyone disagrees with Neo-Conservative policy, and anyone who votes for Neo-Con economics in light of the evidence of vast bankruptcies and collapse, has fully subscribed to faith-based economic insanity.

The Neo-Con right is WRONG.

[August1991]

The modern left isn't the old school left, and the quality of life in Scandinavia and Europe proves it. They have more economic stabilty and far lower poverty rates than the US. Remember, almost everyone disagrees with Neo-Conservative policy, and anyone who votes for Neo-Con economics in light of the evidence of vast bankruptcies and collapse, has fully subscribed to faith-based economic insanity.

The Neo-Con right is WRONG.

Where did the Internet originate? Scandinavia?

The Berlin Wall is gone, and the Soviet Union too. Socialism doesn't work. It smothers change.

-----

IKEA? Right - Ikea, that bastion of Socialist ideology. Norway? What is Norway without North Sea oil?

Edited September 15, 2008 by August1991

[cybercoma]

August, I know you mean well, but clearly joe blow is trolling and his mind will not be changed no matter what amount of reasoning you use. His stance originates from the unreasonable, so it's impossible to make any inroads. Regardless, even if you could educate him, he sees things in black and white, so there's no way for him to be centered. Either you're for the Conservatives or you're against them, there's no grey in his world.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Our problems are far greater than simply a left or right political direction. It is time to recognize what is truly happening with this nation. We never really escaped the hewers of wood and drawers of water status in real economic terms. Now it seems that we are going to remain inside the box as a vassal of the United States. It is a safe direction to undertake, but one which denies us our birth right and ignores our true potential.

This nation needs to grow a spine and start acting like an adult country in a very real world of political manipulation and economic servitude.

[cybercoma]

I would suggest we don't have a spine as a nation because we're having problems working as a nation. Federal politics is nothing more than a collection of regional interests (Conservatives in the West, Bloc in Quebec and Liberals in Ontario) banging heads. Until someone comes along that truly unites Canada, we're going to continue slipping.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

There is nothing to unite us because the folks in politics don't want us united! The trail we are walking down leads to us being gobbled up by America. That will suit all the politicians needs wants and desires. More power, more privilege, more money.

[Joesixpack5]

I should have expected the knee-jerk Neo-Con denials. They are incapable of measuring the actual effects of their dogmatic policy handbook.

[Joesixpack5]

August, I know you mean well, but clearly joe blow is trolling and his mind will not be changed no matter what amount of reasoning you use. His stance originates from the unreasonable, so it's impossible to make any inroads. Regardless, even if you could educate him, he sees things in black and white, so there's no way for him to be centered. Either you're for the Conservatives or you're against them, there's no grey in his world.

You missed my ardent defense of moderate Joe Clark conservatives from the 1980's.

Bush pursued tax cuts (especially for the mega-rich), cuts to social services, more corporate welfare, more military spending, more drug war, and Neo-Con Harper wants to travel down the same economic policy path.

I actually argued FOR the center-right conservative approach, and AGAINST the radical Neo-Con fringe,

which Harper is pursuing, oblivious to the probable effects.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

Where did the Internet originate? Scandinavia?

The Berlin Wall is gone, and the Soviet Union too. Socialism doesn't work. It smothers change.

-----

IKEA? Right - Ikea, that bastion of Socialist ideology. Norway? What is Norway without North Sea oil?

That is truly lame. You are flailing away at meaningless scarecrows.

Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki and Copenhagen are superior to radical Soviet socialism precisely because they are similar in principle to center-right conservatism - they are moderate, pragmatic, non-ideological practical applications. Extremism causes severe economic and military damage whether it's on the far right or far left.

The center-left policies, via May and Layton, are a rational alternative to Communism, Neo-Conservatism, Neo-Liberalism and Fascism. Social democracy is actually a pragmatic, scientific mixture : 40-60% socialistic infrastructure + 40-60% capitalistic infrastructure.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[M.Dancer]

I don't think there is such a thing as "Neo-conservative economics"

And I doubt if the poster could correct distinguish the differences between neo conservatism and conservatism.

[Moonbox]

People seriously. Stop responding to this guy's threads. He's got nothing intelligent to say and he's got almost nothing to back up what he does say. Arguing with him so he can repeat his ignorance to us is a waste of time.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Ultimately, it's the result of indivdiual greed and ireesponsibility. People should not be living outside of their means. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

[fellowtraveller]

VIVA FIDEL!!!

VIVA HUGO!!!

VIVA EVO!!!

VIVA CHE!

VIVA CHE!

VIVA CHE!

[fellowtraveller]

The name 'joesixpack' is insulting to the collective and denigrates the working classes.

[Moonbox]

Ultimately, it's the result of indivdiual greed and ireesponsibility. People should not be living outside of their means. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

100% Correct. This is why the economy sucks right now. Americans were too stupid to not buy houses they couldn't afford, American banks were too greedy to not provide them mortgages and banks internationally were too stupid/greedy to see how stupid and greedy the American banks and consumers were.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I don't believe any kind of economic policies that Canadian government can adopt will change the current situation in a big way. Canadian economy is made in Canada.

Having said that we're still in a slightly better situation than the USA as our lending rules were not a lax. Which is a corporate policy of the banks, I believe, and not an achievement of a political party.

[fellowtraveller]

I don't believe any kind of economic policies that Canadian government can adopt will change the current situation in a big way. Canadian economy is made in Canada.

Having said that we're still in a slightly better situation than the USA as our lending rules were not a lax. Which is a corporate policy of the banks, I believe, and not an achievement of a political party.

It is not correct that our more stable credit/mortgage situatuion is the result of any caution by the banks,

It is largely the effect of ouyr Bank Act, which prohibits any bank from lending more than 75% of the value of a home directly. They may lend m,ore, but only if the balance is insured/approved by CMHC or lately, by GE Capital. Their criteria are much tougher than those of the Candian banks and the US banks.

If the banks here had any choice, they would be lending on the same idiotic terms as US banks.

Actually, between them CMHC and the banks do lend on silly terms (interest only, no down payments, 40 year amortizations), but the CMHC premiums are so high that defaults are covered. That may not hold true in the long term.

The Candian economy is not entirely 'made' in Canada. Canada is a trading nation and we are subject to the vagaries of all economies worldwide. Even our beloved oil exports will be of far less value if demand drops sharply, which it may well do if the world economic crisis worsens.

[Joesixpack5]

VIVA FIDEL!!!

VIVA HUGO!!!

VIVA EVO!!!

VIVA CHE!

VIVA CHE!

VIVA CHE!

Again, you flail away at scarecrows and take your eye off the geograbhic ball. Attack the region I advocate for, CENTER-LEFT PROGRESSIVE SCANDINAVIA AND THE POLITICAL LEADERS THERE.

Oblivious, flailing, blind right-wing morons/maniacs.

[Joesixpack5]

It is not correct that our more stable credit/mortgage situatuion is the result of any caution by the banks,

It is largely the effect of ouyr Bank Act, which prohibits any bank from lending more than 75% of the value of a home directly. They may lend m,ore, but only if the balance is insured/approved by CMHC or lately, by GE Capital. Their criteria are much tougher than those of the Candian banks and the US banks.

If the banks here had any choice, they would be lending on the same idiotic terms as US banks.

Actually, between them CMHC and the banks do lend on silly terms (interest only, no down payments, 40 year amortizations), but the CMHC premiums are so high that defaults are covered. That may not hold true in the long term.

The Candian economy is not entirely 'made' in Canada. Canada is a trading nation and we are subject to the vagaries of all economies worldwide. Even our beloved oil exports will be of far less value if demand drops sharply, which it may well do if the world economic crisis worsens.

The US economic situation is caused by their rules and regulations, or lack of. 8 years of retarded Republican policies (blindly dogmatic tax cuts mainly for the megarich, 100 billion dollars per year in corporate welfare, loopholes, greatly increased military spending, cuts to social services, massive debt, etc.) led to crisis and collapse.

8 years of Bush/Cheney/McCain policies CAUSED the collapse. And the only thing which has shielded Canada is the more moderate, left-leaning rules and regulations (Cons can thank Libs in this case). We are slightly closer to center-left Scandinavian economics than the US, and the countries not as obliviously hooked on dumb Neo-Con economics (Canada, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Germany, etc.) have not caused internal collapse.

But given a majority, Harper would copy and paste the Bush dogma acrosss Canada - the US style drug war, corporate welfare, great increase in military spending, cuts to social services, etc.

I am right (because I'm center-left) and the Neo-Con right is WRONG.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[Joesixpack5]

I don't believe any kind of economic policies that Canadian government can adopt will change the current situation in a big way. Canadian economy is made in Canada.

Having said that we're still in a slightly better situation than the USA as our lending rules were not a lax. Which is a corporate policy of the banks, I believe, and not an achievement of a political party.

Wrong. The fact that our previous governments, Libs and Cons, were not as EXTREME to the STUPID ultra-right extreme as the Bush-Wacko administration, HAS influenced our economic configuration, rules, regulations, social safety net.

The empirical evidence PROVES that the more moderate, less right-wing extreme countries (in the western developed democracies, it's all the countries other than the US) have NOT had nearly the same economic crisis due to internal economic conditions and operative atmosphere.

The Neo-Con right-wing maniacs are deaf, dumb, blind and insane. You go to the Bush-Wacko extreme WRT to economic policy (along with foreign and social policy) and you get BURNED.... BIG-time.

[Joesixpack5]

100% Correct. This is why the economy sucks right now. Americans were too stupid to not buy houses they couldn't afford, American banks were too greedy to not provide them mortgages and banks internationally were too stupid/greedy to see how stupid and greedy the American banks and consumers were.

The economic policies, and therefore the operative atmosphere for business AND consumers, is largely SET by gov't. This is a fact. And it's why the US economy has collapsed more than any of the more moderate / left-leaning countries in the western developed world.

Gov't policy greatly affects markets. Don't deny the truth, or you are an oblivious moron/maniac.

When capitalists and corporatists neglect to properly monitor, tweak and regulate their economy, they let corporate greed run rampant, like a blind, rampaging MONSTER ... devouriong consumers for exponential greed.

When you pursue the pragmatic and moderate Irish economic model, the Dutch economic model, the Norwegian economic model, the Danish economic model, the Finnish economic model, the German economic model, etc., you AVOID the insane Bush Republican economic model which is really a neo-FASCIST military-corporate DOGMA, and NOT an economic science AT ALL.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Joesixpack5

[bush_cheney2004]

The economic policies, and therefore the operative atmosphere for business AND consumers, is largely SET by gov't. This is a fact. And it's why the US economy has collapsed more than any of the more moderate / left-leaning countries in the western developed world.

Collapse is a good thing compared to permanent suck:

Higher GDP per capita allows the average American to spend about $9,700 more on consumption every year than the average European. So Yanks have by far more cars, TVs, computers and other modern goods. "Most Americans have a standard of living which the majority of Europeans will never come anywhere near," the Swedish study says.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/fe...ml?id=110005242

Even American and Canadian garbage is worth more.