Which party will bring troops back from Afghanistan?

Ontario Loyalist · September 9, 2008

Yes what a sham, for centuries Man has attempted to fly, go to the moon, walk on water, time after time year after year it was proven that man was not meant to do none of the above...and yet today were flying in huge double decker planes, walked on the moon, and have walked on water...History has shown us alot of things but is no means the end all to be all in what things can be accomplished by man if he sets his mind to it.

Another sham argument. We're talking about nation building, not building a rocket.

Iraq is a perfect example. Look at how Iraq was created, how it was meant to be and how it turned out. Our resources are better spent on Canadians and for Canadians in Canada to make this country a better place. We have to make sure that our own expiriment, begun in 1867, itself succeeds.

M.Dancer · September 9, 2008

Another sham argument. We're talking about nation building, not building a rocket.
Iraq is a perfect example. Look at how Iraq was created, how it was meant to be and how it turned out. Our resources are better spent on Canadians and for Canadians in Canada to make this country a better place. We have to make sure that our own expiriment, begun in 1867, itself succeeds.

What do the Ottomans have to do with this?

PoliticalCitizen · September 9, 2008

When the defunct countries were used as a platform to launch major attacks against us
This isn't iraq, or some situation where the threat is 'questionable' - this was a clear threat that had already cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

Oh was it?

Was it a ballistic missle launched from Kabul into New York, traced and photographed along the way?

Whatever reasons were used by NATO to go into Afghanistan are just as solid as WMD in Iraq.

blueblood · September 9, 2008

Oh was it?
Was it a ballistic missle launched from Kabul into New York, traced and photographed along the way?

Whatever reasons were used by NATO to go into Afghanistan are just as solid as WMD in Iraq.

Which is more solid than the pathetic joke of a country called the USSR and their escapades in Afghanistan and now Georgia.

People living in glass houses...

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

But you are a fervent suppoter of this in Georgia! In post after post defending Russia's right to send troops anywhere it wants to!

Did the country of Afghanistan attack citizens of USA?

To fight against the forces of evil, you know, like the people you support.

I see... Good luck... and godspeed as well.

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

Did the country of Afghanistan attack citizens of USA?
I see... Good luck... and godspeed as well.

How many residents of Afganistan planned the attack? How many were turned over that attack?

Not only were amercian citizens attacked that day, but so were the citizens of at least a dozen other countries.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Alta4ever

blueblood · September 10, 2008

How many residents of Afganistan planned the attack? How many were turned over that attack?
Not only were amercian citizens attacked that day, but so were the citizens of at least a dozen other countries.

Ah he's just pissed that old country didn't do as good a job as we did over there.

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

Ah he's just pissed that old country didn't do as good a job as we did over there.

No doubt

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

Enlighten us PC, what cause is false...

Well AG, you should probably know it better than me - please state the official reason that NATO used to attack Afghanistan.

Yes there is alot of pain in Afganistan, but things have changed since mother Russia's sudden departure....The country now has major Hyways, major Dams, and a long list of other improvements...and even a form of Democracy, all given to them not by force, but rather open arms, perhaps you can give me one source, proving NATO is forcing Democracy or for that matter anything down the throats of the majority....

I'm sorry to say it but all these infrastructure improvements may go the way of the Soviet-built railroad and tunnel as soon as NATO withdraws. I understand the Good Will part is genuine... But look at a US ally in the region - Pakistan. It's pretty far from a real "Democracy", and it aids Taliban who is the "enemy". I don't think it will last in Afghan... Any Western-style society is artificial there and will collapse as soon as the occupant armies withdraw.

As for the kids handling wpns professionally got to love mother russia for giving them that oportunity, heck they even provided the arms to do it but this is not about providing a people with a chance at some of the rights and freedoms and things we take for granted everyday. This is about "bringing our troops home right now" because PC and others think it is wrong, or can't be done....

"Rigths and freedoms" are worthless if they are brought by an invading force.

So while we all are sitting down here talking about this lets just ask ourselfs what is it costing us, i mean every Canadian tax payer, a quick est would say about 20 dollars out of your entire tax bill....Ya to some it's alot of money but come on it's not even a case of beer....for what a chance at giving some nation of millions a decent chance of peace.....other than that what else does it cost the avg tax payer....nothing, our soldiers are picking up the heavy end, and glad to do it as well, there is no bitching or moaning or shouts for debates....Tell ya what send me your name and address and i'll send you your 20 bucks. if it would mean carrying on with something more important it would be worth it....

I never argued the financial side. It is the senseless loss of human lives on both sides...

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

"Rigths and freedoms" are worthless if they are brought by an invading force.

I wonder what the Japanese take on this would be.

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

How many residents of Afganistan planned the attack? How many were turned over that attack?
Not only were amercian citizens attacked that day, but so were the citizens of at least a dozen other countries.

The fact of the attack is undeniable.

The rest - as to who's done it - a far stretch at best... a treason and mass murder at worst...

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

I wonder what the Japanese take on this would be.

Do you think they'll ever forget about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Talk about excessive use of force...

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

The fact of the attack is undeniable.
The rest - as to who's done it - a far stretch at best... a treason and mass murder at worst...

How do you commit treason against a country that you are not a citizen of?

So the world trade center wasn't an attack against a foriegn nation?

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

The fact of the attack is undeniable.
The rest - as to who's done it - a far stretch at best... a treason and mass murder at worst...

How do you commit treason against a country that you are not a citizen of?

So the world trade center wasn't an attack against a foriegn nation?

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

How do you commit treason against a country that you are not a citizen of?
So the world trade center wasn't an attack against a foriegn nation?

I'm not sure if you've ever come across opinions diverging from the official story, Alta, but there are many.

Most of them imply the US government organized the attacks to get an excuse to invade countries that have oil or can serve as a conduit for oil.

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

I'm not sure if you've ever come across opinions diverging from the official story, Alta, but there are many.
Most of them imply the US government organized the attacks to get an excuse to invade countries that have oil or can serve as a conduit for oil.

Oh right the "truthers" such a reputiable bunch. This is a political forum not one for conspiracy theorists. Look out for the illuminati.

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

Oh right the "truthers" such a reputiable bunch. This is a political forum not one for conspiracy theorists. Look out for the illuminati.

You may or may not believe it but these theories are being aired by CBC - I saw "9/11 - The Third Tower" yesterday.

I'm amazed it made it to the "Official" TV... it used to be only on some obscure websites...

Alta4ever · September 10, 2008

You may or may not believe it but these theories are being aired by CBC - I saw "9/11 - The Third Tower" yesterday.
I'm amazed it made it to the "Official" TV... it used to be only on some obscure websites...

I'm not most networks will air anything if they think they will get good ratings for it.

White Doors · September 10, 2008

I'm not sure if you've ever come across opinions diverging from the official story, Alta, but there are many.
Most of them imply the US government organized the attacks to get an excuse to invade countries that have oil or can serve as a conduit for oil.

Oh great, another "TRVTHIE"

just what this forum needs - more comedy.

Topaz · September 10, 2008

IF, and I HOPE NOT, Harper was to get a majority goverenment what is stopping him from changing the withdraw in 2011 to sometime in the future instead???? Harper can't be trusted when it comes to his word and Canadians know that now!

Army Guy · September 10, 2008

Well AG, you should probably know it better than me - please state the official reason that NATO used to attack Afghanistan.

This is your quote is it not ? Since your currently on the soap box and making a bold statement as you did please explain, why NATO's reasons are false...

We went in as part of NATO, but the NATO cause was false and therefore we should be free of further obligation.

The offical reason's are posted on various government web sites, which i could provide you a link if you like. But then again you are already well aware of the reasons, i mean one would have to be in order to debate the subject...at least i hope so anyways.

I'm sorry to say it but all these infrastructure improvements may go the way of the Soviet-built railroad and tunnel as soon as NATO withdraws.

Again you are not certain of that, your guessing...lots of infra struture that the soviets built is still being used today...I don't think alot planners have that in mind when major construction projects get under way, piss on that they'll only destroy it when we leave....we can't re build a nation with that in mind, we must be postive and look towards a better future for Afgan if we are going to suceed.

But look at a US ally in the region - Pakistan. It's pretty far from a real "Democracy", and it aids Taliban who is the "enemy". I don't think it will last in Afghan... Any Western-style society is artificial there and will collapse as soon as the occupant armies withdraw.

You've said your self Afgan is not a western democracy, and nor was it meant to be, it's a Afganistan democracy, with all the good, bad and ugly...and it will change over time, with us there or with out us. Piont here is NATO is not forcing the current Afgan government into anything, nor does it set policies, it advises and steps back and lets the Afgan government take it's own course of action....Unless you can prove other wise then your whole statement is "OPINION" and everyone has one of those....

"Rigths and freedoms" are worthless if they are brought by an invading force.

Yes they are, but NATO is not an invading force, and was asked by the freely elected government of Afgan to stay and assist with building a new nation....those freedoms and rights they now have were brought to the people by that very government....Not NATO, or anyone else...

But i'm sure you can prove other wise...or is this your OPINION again.

I never argued the financial side. It is the senseless loss of human lives on both sides...

Here's where i get confused, the senseless loss of lives on our side is being paid by our soldiers, diplomates and a few aid workers, and they do this because they believe in this cause, and it's the right thing to do....

Lives on the other side, are for the most part being paid by the Taliban and thier merry band of followers, they are dying so they can force the majority into thier way of thinking and life....( your familar with thier ideals are you not)

The only sad part about this whole operation is the Afgan people that are caught in the middle, and while we would all agree it is a terriable plight, and something needs to be done, the Majority of Canadians perfer to do nothing....but sit and watch as these people go on suffering.

The rest - as to who's done it - a far stretch at best... a treason and mass murder at worst.

The evidence is out there all you have to do is research it, OB and his merry band of terrorist omitted to carrying it out, the Taliban back them up, and offer them sanctuary....but please do explain how you have come to the conclusion that nothing is true and NATO, including our nation has commited any crimes.

I just wanted to end with this most people firmly believe we are pulling out in 2011, It is my OPINION that we will be here much longer than that regardless of who becomes PM....

jdobbin · September 10, 2008

I just wanted to end with this most people firmly believe we are pulling out in 2011, It is my OPINION that we will be here much longer than that regardless of who becomes PM....

So you are forecasting that if Harper wins, as we all suspect, that he will break his promise?

capricorn · September 10, 2008

So you are forecasting that if Harper wins, as we all suspect, that he will break his promise?

This morning, Harper said he will not seek an amendment to the Feb. 09 pullout. He made it quite clear we will deploy out of Afghanistan on the projected date. I can't find a link yet as it just aired on CTV.

Army Guy · September 10, 2008

So you are forecasting that if Harper wins, as we all suspect, that he will break his promise?

Would it surprise you, that any poliction broke thier promise. There is alot riding on this Operation , not only for Canada, but NATO, and the entire alliance. enough that yes i would forecast any of the parties once elected would extend the mission....

PoliticalCitizen · September 10, 2008

AG - you're right, everything I stated are my opinions (educated or not).

It is also my strong opinion that we should pull out and stay out because the reason for going in, the scope and the mandate of our troops are all murky at best.