What is your take on Sarah Palin?

[WIP]

No she says

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God."

When she says "also for this country" what do you think she means? Also what?

Also (pray) for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God.

I didn't say she was asking them to pray for a "Sign", but simply praying that they were doing the right thing. It could not be clearer.

I can't believe you actually believe yourself.

How come you're not including the last part of that quote: "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Sounds to me like God has a plan! She's just asking them to pray that our national leaders are using God's plan(as opposed to George Bush's plan I suppose). And I don't get the impression that she has any doubt that the overall war strategy is part of God's plan. It's sounds to me more like praying for divine guidance to achieve victory. This is the same woman who thinks that a gas pipeline is part of God's plan; so we're dealing with someone who sees divine will behind all sorts of human and natural events.

[betsy]

Furthermore, in my view, neither Stronach nor Hilary faced either the volume or viciousness that has been directed at Palin.

Secondly, why does it matter that my political views disagree with Palin's, when my focus has been not on her merits as a candidate, but on criticizing the smear campaign that's being directed at her?

Only politics would make "progressives" earnestly argue that a woman should leave her job to spend more time with her baby.

-k

This woman's family - especially her daughter was under attack! What mother wouldn't be outraged?

Even Michelle Obama was placed in a box - forced to criticize the personal attacks on Palin's family. They've clobbered Palin - before she even had the chance to come out and introduce herself with the most vicious attack on a mother. Through her children. Thus the reaction of women! And rightly so.

When she came out all feisty and "swinging" at all Democrats...well, a star is born!

Edited September 8, 2008 by betsy

[jefferiah]

How come you're not including the last part of that quote: "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

I didn't include it because it still doesn't change the meaning of what she is saying. But let's add it in.

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

There, that only further supports my argument anyways. I don't know why you think that changes it.

She says we have to pray we are doing the right thing.

"Thats what we have to make sure that that is what we are praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's."

We have to make sure that we are praying that we are doing God's will, that this there is a plan and that it's Gods plan.

She is saying we have to be sure there is a plan, and that its Gods plan, not that "it is God's plan".

Reading your posts WIP, it seems you have a decent command of the English language when you write something. Why is it that you have no comprehension when you read? Is that deliberate on your part?

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[guyser]

Easy for you to say. .... look at this aspect of Palin's past, and tell me I'm getting worked up over nothing.

OK, you are getting worked up over nothing.

Its a beauty pageant. It is called desparation. Of course its easy to say because it would be dumb to focus on that aspect.

A woman who was in a beauty pageant as a young adult wants to be Vice President.

A man who was hooked on marijuana and cocaine as a young adult wants to be President.

And which one does the media decide is hilarious comedy?

Both.

Comedy know no bounds.

It wasn't? If Manning was so dumb,.... So, if you're done insulting both of our intelligences, let's move on.

I had to go back to re-read what I wrote, as I thought it misconstrued. I meant that Manning was a the least worrisome, meaning he was the smart one. I think I didnt get that across accurately.

There is a great deal of differing opinion on the subject of whether a fetus is a human life.

There is always the legal version.

[guyser]

I didn't include it because it still doesn't change the meaning of what she is saying. But let's add it in.

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

God handed the plan down to the people . It is Gods plan for the war.

Thats what that says.

[jefferiah]

God handed the plan down to the people . It is Gods plan for the war.

Thats what that says.

No. It says:

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also (PRAY) for this this country that our leaders (our national leaders) are sending them out on a task that is from God. Thats what we have to make sure we're praying for: That there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

It doesn't say anything remotely like "God handed the plan down to the people. It is God's plan for war."

I can only think of so many ways to explain English to you and WIP. Is there anyone else who can help?

Listen to this sentence. Think. "Thats what we have to make sure we're praying for: That there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Lets break that into two parts.

Part 1 "THATS what we have to make sure we're praying for" she says.

what is it that we have to make sure we are praying for???? She answers that right after by saying:

Part 2 "That there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Or lets put it this way: That there is a plan and that plan is Gods plan is what we have to make sure we're praying for.

GET IT?

Or better yet.....We have to make sure that we are praying that there is a plan and that plan is God's.

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[bush_cheney2004]

God handed the plan down to the people . It is Gods plan for the war.

Thats what that says.

You mean...like..."jihad"?

[betsy]

No. It says:

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right; also (PRAY) for this this country that our leaders (our national leaders) are sending them out on a task that is from God. Thats what we have to make sure we're praying for: That there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

It doesn't say anything remotely like "God handed the plan down to the people. It is God's plan for war."

I can only think of so many ways to explain English to you and WIP. Is there anyone else who can help?

I interpret it as saying:

"Pray for our soldiers who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God."

The soldiers only follow the orders of their superiors - our leaders. Facing combat and life-or-death situations, surrounded by brutalities and violence, it must be a challenge for soldiers under these terrible circumstances to strive to do what is right.

And since these leaders are leading our country, we should pray for the good judgement of our leaders....pray that our leaders are enlightened by God. That the leaders are sending out these soldiers on a mission that is only right.

That's what we have to be sure of, that what we're doing is the right thing... in accordance to the will of God.

So actually, she is admonishing caution. To make sure that what we're doing is right.

Edited September 8, 2008 by betsy

[WIP]

This is starting to sound like interpreting Biblical prophecy. Now, if she'll actually explain what her exhortations mean in an interview, she can explain what her meaning and intentions were herself, so the public doesn't have to try to interpret Palinology.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is starting to sound like interpreting Biblical prophecy. Now, if she'll actually explain what her exhortations mean in an interview, she can explain what her meaning and intentions were herself, so the public doesn't have to try to interpret Palinology.

The public doesn't have to interpret anything....her meaning and intentions are quite clear, particularly to her voting base.

[jefferiah]

I interpret it as saying:

"Pray for our soldiers who are striving to do what is right. Also for this country, that our leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God."

The soldiers only follow the orders of their superiors - our leaders. Facing combat and life-or-death situations, surrounded by brutalities and violence, it must be a challenge for soldiers under these terrible circumstances to strive to do what is right.

And since these leaders are leading our country, we should pray for the good judgement of our leaders....pray that our leaders are enlightened by God. That the leaders are sending out these soldiers on a mission that is only right.

That's what we have to be sure of, that what we're doing is the right thing... in accordance to the will of God.

So actually, she is admonishing caution. To make sure that what we're doing is right.

Same as my interpretation. Which is the obvious interpretation. Thanks for helping Betsy, but it still doesnt seem to be sinking in with WIP.

[jefferiah]

This is starting to sound like interpreting Biblical prophecy. Now, if she'll actually explain what her exhortations mean in an interview, she can explain what her meaning and intentions were herself, so the public doesn't have to try to interpret Palinology.

No. It is not sounding like interpreting Biblical prophecy. It's sounding like you can't understand the difference between someone praying that what they are doing is in accordance with God's will, and actually saying that something is God's will.

Palinology?? Huh, its written in bloody English man.

This is like trying to explain the word "is" to Bill Clinton.

Edited September 8, 2008 by jefferiah

[Guest American Woman]

If Betsy took my position on Palin to be "rah-rah!" support for her electoral chances, it's because that's how you described my position.

Oh, I see. Betsy get your view not from what you say, but from what I say about what you said. Gottcha.

Betsy just returned after an extended absence, and I can understand why she hasn't read through the 1000-post thread on Palin to get my position first hand. You, on the other hand, have been in that 1000-post thread from the beginning, and I would have hoped you'd have a better grasp of where I stand.

If you think I've read everything you've posted in that thread, guess again. I'm responding in this thread, so I'm going by what you said in this thread.

I have commented on sexism and Hilary's campaign several times. I have been vocal on this subject for years, going way back to Belinda Stronach's campaign for the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada in 2004. ("Parliament Hill Barbie".)

Guess I missed those "several times."

If you're skeptical of my history on this topic, feel free to fire up the board's search function and prove me wrong.

Don't think I'll be doing that, so if you feel as if my skepticism is undue, feel free to fire up the board's search function yourself and prove me wrong.

Furthermore, in my view, neither Stronach nor Hilary faced either the volume or viciousness that has been directed at Palin.

Says all I need to know right there.

First off, I object to the accusation of "selective outrage". I have a history on this topic that spans a longer time than you've been on this message board. I would say that the accusation says a lot more about *you* than it says about *me*.

And I'd say I've been on the board well before Hillary's campaign started and I haven't seen any of your "history" of outrage over how she was treated.

Secondly, why does it matter that my political views disagree with Palin's, when my focus has been not on her merits as a candidate, but on criticizing the smear campaign that's being directed at her? What, am I supposed to preface each post by saying "I don't support teaching creationism in schools, but..." ?

Is that what it's been? Seems to me it's been more a matter of rah-rah "love the woman" with a lot of "poor Sarah is a victim of everyone and everything." Poor Sarah has been called "miss congeniality." Of course poor 14 year old Chelsea was called a dog, and Hillary was called a multitude of things, but let's all walk on egg shells regarding Palin. Let's not even discuss the issues lest someone take offense.

And lastly: Politics? Politics is the whole problem here. If people wanted to talk about issues of substance, I would be absolutely fine with that, but this has nothing to do with issues and everything to do with politics. Only politics would make "progressives" earnestly argue that a woman should leave her job to spend more time with her baby.

-k

I've talked about plenty of issues of substance. I've brought up several of her views, cited several quotes, and not once did I say she should leave her job to spend more time with her family.

As I said, I don't care if Palin is "likable" or not. My country's not voting for Miss Congeniality. The well being of my country, myself, my family, other Americans who don't want someone who's "doing God's work" dictating to them what they can or cannot do in their private life is at stake. So if Palin can't take the heat, she can get out of the kitchen. She's just as open to criticism as any other candidate, and I'll feel just as free to say whatever I see fit about her as I do any other candidate. I didn't cry a river over the sexism directed at Hillary and I won't put on kid gloves for Palin.

Edited September 8, 2008 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

There is no single standard....never has been.

So double standards will have to do ... hell and I almost thought there were no standards

Of course it's OK....just ask Jon Stewart.

Stewart is not a lowlife, just a comedian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHFhzwyZFLw

Just some of those double standards we se every day. It is really messed up when a person like Stewart can deliver more news in 30 mins than CNN/FNS ect ect .. sure .. how about Canwest, CTV, CBC, blah blah .. BBC, AL-freakin Jazeeeera ... any of them in a single day.

WIP

You don't read very carefully do you? I just got finished saying that at least Bush didn't declare a belief that we are already in the end times. He could put it off somewhere in the future. But his stupid idea that he had the hotline to God, and he is carrying out God's will by going to war is bad enough!

....lololol...... To add to your bit there, kind of like how Palin says it MIGHT be gods work, they just don't know yet ..... Considering she was waiting for a job description for VP before she decided to take it. ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=006axc2aELE

Kimmy

-she's been mocked for having been in the Miss Alaska pageant 24 years ago.

-she's been called a lousy parent.

-she's been accused of causing her baby to be Downs' Syndrome through negligence, either through working while pregnant, flying while pregnant, or flying home after her water broke.

-she's been accused of lying about her baby's parentage.

-it has been argued that if she really loved her special needs baby, she would quit her job and be a full time mother.

I did go on that bandwagon, and after I thought about it, well, it was really dumb to bring that to light.

-she's been accused of adultery through the most circumstantial evidence imaginable.

This is how they got Bill right?? This one I will say is fair game.

Bush_cheney

Why are you amazed....it's a political campaign...DUH!

Those double standards comes to mind ... again.

Sure, that's why the motto "In God We Trust" appears prominently on US currency and coins since at least 1957...and many times before that. It doesn't say "In Allah We Trust".

One man's Allah, is another man'd God.

Maybe the "suitcase" is "God".

Where do I begin ....

Kimmy

A woman who was in a beauty pageant as a young adult wants to be Vice President.

A man who was hooked on marijuana and cocaine as a young adult wants to be President.

And which one does the media decide is hilarious comedy?

Obama inhaled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uju8srfGw2I

Bush was a drunk.

Jeffariah

She was asking people to pray that they were doing the right thing. That's not the same as saying it's a task from God.

Meh, check out the link above, she definately wants it to be Gods work. Not to mention you can see more of the speach clip on youtube.

We have to make sure that we are praying that we are doing God's will, that this there is a plan and that it's Gods plan.

She is saying we have to be sure there is a plan, and that its Gods plan, not that "it is God's plan".

So, if they do not make it God's plan, or they find out that oh crap .. this was NOT God's plan.. what then? When will everyone just give up God? It is the plan of men, and only men. God does nothing, for he is nothing. It is like it is an excuse to get away with almost everything... THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT !!! I WAS ON A MISSION FROM GOD !!!

Anyone who brings that up, most people just say .. screwball, idiot, freak. But in the US they get the nod for VP.

Guyser

We have to make sure that we are praying that we are doing God's will, that this there is a plan and that it's Gods plan.

She is saying we have to be sure there is a plan, and that its Gods plan, not that "it is God's plan".

SHOW ME THE PLANS !!!!!! Cause, we all know God just hands things over ... right? No one knows that it is ever God's will. He works in mysterious ways right? We may never understand his plan... maybe nuking the whole freakin planet IS his plan. If that is true, then you are all idiots.

What's in the suitcase??

[Guest American Woman]

Anyone who brings that up, most people just say .. screwball, idiot, freak. But in the US they get the nod for VP.

You're only partly right. In the US they get the Republican nod for VP.

[jefferiah]

SHOW ME THE PLANS !!!!!! Cause, we all know God just hands things over ... right? No one knows that it is ever God's will. He works in mysterious ways right? We may never understand his plan... maybe nuking the whole freakin planet IS his plan. If that is true, then you are all idiots.

In alot of churches it is a pretty common thing to pray for your leaders and that they are doing the right thing. There is no scandal there.

[bush_cheney2004]

SHOW ME THE PLANS !!!!!! Cause, we all know God just hands things over ... right? No one knows that it is ever God's will. He works in mysterious ways right? We may never understand his plan... maybe nuking the whole freakin planet IS his plan. If that is true, then you are all idiots.

What's in the suitcase??

If you're so smart, you would know the plans and also what's in the suitcase. I don't think you know either, but we "idiots" do!

[Melanie_]

A politician who truly believes there is a magic sky pixie directing any type of “plan” doesn’t get my vote of confidence. Her personal life is not relevant to the campaign; it’s her willingness to mix superstition (religion) with governing the country that should scare people off. Hiding behind some mythical “plan” that no one is privy to, or can objectively say even exists, is not the sign of a rational person.

[jefferiah]

A politician who truly believes there is a magic sky pixie directing any type of “plan” doesn’t get my vote of confidence. Her personal life is not relevant to the campaign; it’s her willingness to mix superstition (religion) with governing the country that should scare people off. Hiding behind some mythical “plan” that no one is privy to, or can objectively say even exists, is not the sign of a rational person.

Did she mix "superstition" with governance??? This was Palin in a church asking people to pray they were doing the right thing. Since when is praying in a church a violation of the 1st amendment, which actually didnt ban mention of God in Public in the first place until recently.

[Melanie_]

She mixes superstition with governance when she claims that a mythical figure has a plan for the country, and that everyone needs to ask him nicely what that plan might be. It doesn’t really matter if she said it in a church or anywhere else, it is part of her public persona – this is the image she is deliberately projecting to the world.

[bush_cheney2004]

A politician who truly believes there is a magic sky pixie directing any type of “plan” doesn’t get my vote of confidence. Her personal life is not relevant to the campaign; it’s her willingness to mix superstition (religion) with governing the country that should scare people off. Hiding behind some mythical “plan” that no one is privy to, or can objectively say even exists, is not the sign of a rational person.

And how is her political career doing compared to yours? Praise Jesus!

[blueblood]

And how is her political career doing compared to yours? Praise Jesus!

zing!!!

[Melanie_]

And how is her political career doing compared to yours? Praise Jesus!

That got a chuckle from me, I'll admit! But I'm not interested in running for politics, just in being an armchair quarterback...and I think I have that in common with most members of this forum. We don't need a political career to discuss politics, do we?

[bush_cheney2004]

That got a chuckle from me, I'll admit! But I'm not interested in running for politics, just in being an armchair quarterback...and I think I have that in common with most members of this forum. We don't need a political career to discuss politics, do we?

No you don't, but I am just highlighting the practical application of Governor Palin's faith in politics. Clearly she has been successful with a significant portion of the electorate. If invoking God (and "plan") were a disqualifying offense, you would have to eliminate many US politicians from history, successful or not.

I can't speak for Canadians, but many Americans find strength in their faith despite liberal/elitist condemnations about "clinging to guns and religion". This is particularly true during a crisis.

Sorry, but in the USA....."God" is here to stay. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

[jefferiah]

She mixes superstition with governance when she claims that a mythical figure has a plan for the country, and that everyone needs to ask him nicely what that plan might be. It doesn’t really matter if she said it in a church or anywhere else, it is part of her public persona – this is the image she is deliberately projecting to the world.

So the fact that she prays that God will help guide her in making the right choices disqualifies her as a valid candidate? So, in essence, you are saying that Christians (a demographic among which it is not uncommon to pray that God will help them to do what is right) should not hold high office.

(Note: I don't think she actually demands that "everyone" ask God what that plan might be. She asked people in a Church to ask God to help guide them to make the right choices.)

In the end these people will make their choices. They will still analyze facts like anyone else and try to make the best decision they see fit. And they will pray that God helps them to see things clearly in order to make the right decisions. Do you think that praying about it will curse it somehow? That sounds.. ummmm....superstitious.

Edited September 9, 2008 by jefferiah