Conservatives Panic?

[gc1765]

now the fixed election dates only apply to Majority gov'ts....

Makes you wonder why, if the fixed election dates were never meant to apply to minority governments, Harper even bothered to pick October 19, 2009 as the date for the next election.

[gc1765]

That leaves you with the Greens or the NDP. Sleep well tonight.

We have a lot more parties than that, not to mention independents. And if all else fails, there is always the option to run yourself.

[Smallc]

That leaves you with the Greens or the NDP. Sleep well tonight.

I said the choice was hard between the two (and not because they are both good). I didn't say any other options were on the table (though I suppose I may consider the NDP, but most likely not).

Generally, I'm quite satisfied with the choice in politicians. That isn't the case right now.

[margrace]

Didn't Harper bank a little too heavily on forcing an election by making a lot of his new laws dependant on the Liberals turning them down and forcing an election. He was in opposition, didn't he realize what would happen in committees. When questions started being asked his people walked out of the committee thus bringing it all to a stalemate. I don't like Dion either but I think he is proving to be a little more of a strategic planner than Harper. The sad thinkg is how much this is all costing Canadians.

By the way I was wondering why Clement is down at the convention in the states, is this a common thing for a cabinet minister to do and what is he doing.

[Keepitsimple]

I see little alternative than going to the GG.....and I do not view it as breaking his word. Harper is following the rules as they are written. Minority parliaments are supposed to work with a degree of integrity. If the opposition does not want to support the government's vision, history says that they eventually bring down the government. No one could have foreseen such a cowardly Liberal opposition that either abstains from voting in confidence motions or supports the government and proceeds to block progress through committees or the Senate. A cash-strapped and learship-challenged party, this Liberal approach is unprecedented and makes a mockery of Parliament. As Harper has said, the Liberal Green Shift platform is now diametrically opposed to the Conservative vision for the country so things can only get worse, if that's possible. Stop the foolishness and bring on the election.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Keepitsimple

[Ontario Loyalist]

Minority parliaments are supposed to work with a degree of integrity. If the opposition does not want to support the government's vision, history says that they eventually bring down the government.

A minority government indicates that the electorate doesn't consider any of the parties to have a suitable agenda, and the suitable course in that case is for the varying parties to compromise. Harper, however, recognizing that the Liberals were a little disorganized and that the Canadian people had grown somewhat tired of politics and were not interested in another election, have treated their minority government as though it were a majority. In doing so, and with the Liberals allowing them to plod along in such a manner, the Conservatives have gradually shown that they are too inept and out-of-touch to be the ruling party. Harper thinks that he's reached a point where it's to his advantage that an election should be called, but he's sadly mistaken.

[Ontario Loyalist]

That leaves you with the Greens or the NDP. Sleep well tonight.

The Progressive Canadian party is probably the best option, but it remains to be seen just how many candidates they will be able to field.

[M.Dancer]

No, but he will. Another promise made, another promise broken. I don't see how conservatives can complain about Liberals being liars.

I'm having real trouble deciding who to support. I'm a Liberal, but I don't like Dion. Harper seemed to be the best choice, but that seems to be changing quite quickly.

Ihaven't voted conservative since Babs McDougal came and knocked on my door....but there ain't a hope in hell I will vote for a partry led by Dion or Layton.

As far as the Conservatives go, I think they have done well as a minority, I think they would do well as a majority. The first side effect being the removal of Dion and the Dion agenda.

[jdobbin]

I see little alternative than going to the GG.....and I do not view it as breaking his word. Harper is following the rules as they are written. Minority parliaments are supposed to work with a degree of integrity. If the opposition does not want to support the government's vision, history says that they eventually bring down the government. No one could have foreseen such a cowardly Liberal opposition that either abstains from voting in confidence motions or supports the government and proceeds to block progress through committees or the Senate. A cash-strapped and learship-challenged party, this Liberal approach is unprecedented and makes a mockery of Parliament. As Harper has said, the Liberal Green Shift platform is now diametrically opposed to the Conservative vision for the country so things can only get worse, if that's possible. Stop the foolishness and bring on the election.

No one could have forseen? How about the 19 times Harper let confidence motions pass when he was in Opposition?

Harper seems fairly certain that the Opposition will vote him down this fall. Why not let that happen and then he woouldn't have broken the spirit of fixed elections.

[Smallc]

The Progressive Canadian party is probably the best option, but it remains to be seen just how many candidates they will be able to field.

Yes, looking at them, it does seem that they would be a good choice if they were to have a candidate in my area. I'm just not really sure if they can make any inroads at this point.

[Fortunata]

Harper seems fairly certain that the Opposition will vote him down this fall. Why not let that happen and then he woouldn't have broken the spirit of fixed elections.

Because Harper is an opportunist as we have never seen before (ergo the term "harpertunistic" as coined by a journalist). He would do anything to stay in power and more above that for a majority. I know that I sound like a broken record but the fact remains that it is true. He has forgone any ethics and principles (which should be what we vote on, not promises that are easily broken) that he may have had in the past and a vote for Harper is a vote for the unknown. What will he be today?

[capricorn]

We have a lot more parties than that, not to mention independents. And if all else fails, there is always the option to run yourself.

True. I tend to forget about those other parties, kind of like the MSM does.

[capricorn]

Harper seems fairly certain that the Opposition will vote him down this fall. Why not let that happen and then he woouldn't have broken the spirit of fixed elections.

If Dion brings down the government would he not also be breaking the spirit of fixed elections? Parliament passed the fixed election law, not just the Conservatives.

[Smallc]

If Dion brings down the government would he not also be breaking the spirit of fixed elections? Parliament passed the fixed election law, not just the Conservatives.

No, because this is a minority parliament. The government has no mandate to govern if the opposition votes no confidence. That hasn't happened. The simple fact is that Stephen Harper is bending the rules to fit his mood. So much for Canada's new government.

[Keepitsimple]

No one could have forseen? How about the 19 times Harper let confidence motions pass when he was in Opposition?

Harper seems fairly certain that the Opposition will vote him down this fall. Why not let that happen and then he woouldn't have broken the spirit of fixed elections.

Time and time again, the Liberals, despite all their bluster, have shown no inclination (backbone) to bring down the government. What makes you think they will do it when Parliament resumes?

[Shakeyhands]

Time and time again, the Liberals, despite all their bluster, have shown no inclination (backbone) to bring down the government. What makes you think they will do it when Parliament resumes?

It's all three of the opposition partys perogative to bring the government down when they all agree, in this case with the Bloc and the NDP consistenly voting against them it's the Liberals perogative. Why would they do so with no reasonable prospect of changing the government? Chest thumping that they haven't and that this some how favours or validates the CPC is silly, as is describing the Liberals as not having a backbone, when the time is right they will, and it looks as the time is looking right, only the opposition partys know for sure....

Suffice to say, things are getting more and more interesting.

[Moonbox]

No, because this is a minority parliament. The government has no mandate to govern if the opposition votes no confidence. That hasn't happened. The simple fact is that Stephen Harper is bending the rules to fit his mood. So much for Canada's new government.

You're really failing to see the point here. The fixed election date is pretty much useless in a minority government. It makes total sense for a majority government, as Chretien and others abused the ability to call an election whenever the winds looked favorable, but it's a completely different story for a minority.

I'll repeat, once again, that Dion has been threatening an election all year. Everyone against Harper has been saying, "Bring it ON! It's time to end Harper's tyranny and put an end to the EVIL CONSERVATIVE EMPIRE." Now that he's finally agreed it might be time, the same people who have been hoping for an election have turned around and started saying it was wrong what he did.

Basically, according to these people, Stephen Harper should make sure that he gives every advantage possible to the Liberal government in regards to when the next election should be called. Harper should make sure that the next election either happens at the fixed date, or at a time the Liberals choose, almost certainly a time when they feel they have the upper hand. Now ask yourself, why would he do that? Would the Liberals do that if the position were reversed? I think we can all safely assume no, given that Chretien dissolved a popular MAJORITY government to do pretty much the same thing Harper is thinking of doing.

The difference here, of course, is that Chretien had a functioning majority government whereas Harper has a minority government bungled down in committees. This is a government whose opposition leader has been fussing the entire year that he will bring the government down, yet fails to show up for all the confidence votes. When this threat is constant and ever present, you have to take it at face value. The fixed election date becomes irrelevant when the opposition has made it perfectly clear it intends to bring down the government. How can you have a functioning government when over half of Parliament votes against legislation or abstains from voting altogether?

I can only shake my head and wonder at those of you who actually think that it's reasonable for a fragile and unstable government to carry on and wait for its opposition, which has already threatened to bring down the government, to gather support and funding in order to do so at the best time possible for them.

What you're really doing here is just whining like little kids. You know you'd support it if it was the Liberals doing the same thing, but reverse the position and you wet your beds.

[Wilber]

As much as I don't like the idea of not sticking to the fixed date in principle, for a minority government to do so just gives the opposition total control over whether a government survives to that date or not. If both will not commit to a fixed date, there is no fixed date.

[Moonbox]

As much as I don't like the idea of not sticking to the fixed date in principle, for a minority government to do so just gives the opposition total control over whether a government survives to that date or not. If both will not commit to a fixed date, there is no fixed date.

Exactly

[Wild Bill]

Exactly

Moonbox, most of the whiners already knew and understood all that you wrote. It's just simple partisanship!

Ever since the last election Liberal boosters have been waging a ferocious battle against the tide, trying to tear the Tories down because it's so hard to build the Liberals up, considering the weight of all the albatrosses around their necks!

The Liberal name has been badly tarnished and they are broke. Their riding machine is in tatters, especially in Quebec.

So they're just doing what they can! Anything that can be held against the Tories will be used, no matter how trivial. If they can convince a few folks here and a few folks there that the Tories have done some bad things then maybe they might forget that the Liberals had done far worse. It might win a seat here or there. The Liberals will take whatever they can get!

Trust me! These guys aren't ALL that dumb!

[Smallc]

The Liberal name has been badly tarnished. Their riding machine is in tatters, especially in Quebec.

I sincerely doubt that. The Liberal name and machine are far from broken. We just happen to have a crappy leader.

[Wild Bill]

I sincerely doubt that. The Liberal name and machine are far from broken. We just happen to have a crappy leader.

You don't have to convince me. You have to convince a LOT of other folks, especially in Quebec!

I'm REALLY looking forward to exercising hindsight after the election is over!

[Smallc]

You don't have to convince me. You have to convince a LOT of other folks, especially in Quebec!

I'm REALLY looking forward to exercising hindsight after the election is over!

Oh, I really hope my party loses this election so that we can get a new leader. Another Stephen Harper minority is fine for me. keeps hime honest (somewhat anyway). A majority on the other hand.....

Edited August 27, 2008 by Smallc

[Moonbox]

Moonbox, most of the whiners already knew and understood all that you wrote. It's just simple partisanship!

Yes I know...I likely just waste time explaining it.

Ever since the last election Liberal boosters have been waging a ferocious battle against the tide, trying to tear the Tories down because it's so hard to build the Liberals up, considering the weight of all the albatrosses around their necks!

The Liberal name has been badly tarnished and they are broke. Their riding machine is in tatters, especially in Quebec.

Dion knows this, that's for sure. Too bad most of his supporters don't.

So they're just doing what they can! Anything that can be held against the Tories will be used, no matter how trivial. If they can convince a few folks here and a few folks there that the Tories have done some bad things then maybe they might forget that the Liberals had done far worse. It might win a seat here or there. The Liberals will take whatever they can get!

This is so true it hurts. My favorite was the outcry when Harper said he wasn't going to proceed with the naval vessel contract. The liberals for years neglected to spend an extra dime on Canada's military, but when the CPC doesn't go ahead with an over-budget contract, Liberal supporters cry bloody murder. Hilarious.

Trust me! These guys aren't ALL that dumb!

I'll take your word for it, but it's hard to really see it sometimes.

[jdobbin]

Time and time again, the Liberals, despite all their bluster, have shown no inclination (backbone) to bring down the government. What makes you think they will do it when Parliament resumes?

If they don't , why does Harper want an election? He can say he has his majority and then the complaint that he can't get what he wants rings false.

It just looks like Harper had no intention of sticking to the fixed election date.