How Many Houses Does John McCain Own?

[bush_cheney2004]

Thanks. Regardless of what Kerry has claimed, I have been under the impression that there were wide scale atrocities committed by the US in Vietam that were sanctioned by the military &/OR the CIA.

It wasn't just that...it was the aggregate of actions with Jane Fonda and her ilk, consorting with the "enemy" in Paris while still a reservist, disgracing the uniform/medals, and other claims made before the congressional committee.

Senator Kerry is welcomed to have his politics, but not by peeing on those who still have/had a job to do (whether they agreed or not).

[GostHacked]

No your cut and pastes from partisan sites are very skillfull, but can you try to answer in your own words without lying?

Even if he did answer in his own words, you would say he is lying, or it is bul, or something like that. Double edge sword. It is something I have seen here way too often.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=American Woman: It amazes me how one war veteran is 'fair game' to criticize and attack while anyone who does it to 'the other side' is just horrible for criticizing and attacking a war veteran who 'served his country.' What's good for one is good for the other. If you attack Kerry for his service, you damn well better accept that there are people attacking McCain for his. They have just as much a right to attack and speak ill of McCain as you all do to attack and speak ill of Kerry.

If you had served, you would certainly know the difference.

Absolutely false. Serving wouldn't have made me any less intelligent, so I would still recognize bull; I would still recognize that there is no difference.

I Spent Years as a POW with John McCain, and His Finger Should Not Be Near the Red Button

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More than 600 of us did the same.

Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

[Born Free]

Senator Kerry is welcomed to have his politics, but not by peeing on those who still have/had a job to do (whether they agreed or not).

I recall a time in recent history when declaring publicly that one was against the war in Iraq was percieved as peeing on the troops as well. Today, most would likely agree that isnt really the case.

Oh well. Such is life in the fast lane when running for President. Just dont inhale.

[Stephen Best]

Indeed.....a decorated military career and more than 20 years in the US Congress would satisfy most people as some measure of success, not only failure. Many people actually learn from "failures" to go on to greater things...like US president.

If you want to "Swift Boat" John McCain.....good luck!

Wouldn't success or failure depend on what you actually did in your military career and in Congress? Or is that a heretical thought? You think McCain learned from his failures? I think not. But at least you acknowledge that McCain is a failure.

It's not necessary to Swift Boat McCain, his dismal record speaks for itself. Swift Boating is a tactic based on lies, not truth. What fact mentioned in all the sources I've posted is incorrect? Name some.

[M.Dancer]

Double edge sword. It is something I have seen here way too often.

Not from me. I favour the rapier.

[Stephen Best]

It wasn't just that...it was the aggregate of actions with Jane Fonda and her ilk, consorting with the "enemy" in Paris while still a reservist, disgracing the uniform/medals, and other claims made before the congressional committee.

Senator Kerry is welcomed to have his politics, but not by peeing on those who still have/had a job to do (whether they agreed or not).

It takes far more courage to speak truth to power and say that a war is wrong than parrot "Yes, sir! Yes, sir!" and go on to unnecessarily kill innocent people who pose no threat to your country. Kerry was a hero. Fonda was hero. We know now that they were right and the official hero-mongers like McCain were dead wrong. Supporting the troops by encouraging them to follow the orders of venal commanders and political masters is no support at all. It's betrayal. It's treason of the highest order.

[M.Dancer]

. What fact mentioned in all the sources I've posted is incorrect? Name some.

Perhaps if you actually mentioned a fact rather than simply posting other peoples opinions....

[Stephen Best]

Not from me. I favour the rapier.

You might want to use the double edge sword. The rapier demands skill.

[M.Dancer]

Supporting the troops by encouraging them to follow the orders of venal commanders and political masters is no support at all. It's betrayal. It's treason of the highest order.

Is that your considered legal opinion or just one that you think sounds good?

[M.Dancer]

You might want to use the double edge sword. The rapier demands skill.

Pretty clever coming from someone who just got skewered.....

Now dazzle us with some more of your masterful cut and pastes....

Edited August 27, 2008 by M.Dancer

[Stephen Best]

Perhaps if you actually mentioned a fact rather than simply posting other peoples opinions....

Do I need to walk you slowly through the universally accepted notion of "source"? Each source, I so generously offered you contains facts. Did you miss them? Go back, review the sources, and let me know which facts that are stated are false. It's really quite simple. Even someone with half a rapier could do it.

The reason I offer you sources is that I'm sure you would not accept a fact stated by me that was unsupported? Am I wrong? Or will stipulate that everything I say is a fact? In which I case I will be delighted not to have to burden you with sources of well-researched material.

[M.Dancer]

Do I need to walk you slowly through the universally accepted notion of "source"?

I humbly bow to your cut and pastes.....Really stepehn, they're the Best....

You have shown to be a one boy internet recycling powerhouse. Why I \'m sure you have in your career upped the hits to Michaelmoore.com more than anyone I have known...

Now do I need to show you how to frame an original argument? To answer a question in your own words?

Yes, yes I do.....

[M.Dancer]

The reason I offer you sources is that I'm sure you would not accept a fact stated by me that was unsupported? Am I wrong? Or will stipulate that everything I say is a fact? In which I case I will be delighted not to have to burden you with sources of well-researched material.

I think it's because you are unable to think without Moore thinking for you.....

[M.Dancer]

What fact mentioned in all the sources I've posted is incorrect? Name some.

What's so special and heroic about being shot down while bombing innocent civilians?

McCain's final sortie was against a NVA airfiled.

Moore is a liar.

[Stephen Best]

Pretty clever coming from someone who just got skewered.....

Now dazzle us with some more of your masterful cut and pastes....

You're repeating your self now. By cut and past, do you mean "source"? Do you have an sources that support your assertions? Do you understand or appreciate the fundamental, universally-accepted (apart from you) aspect of scholarship or debate that referencing a "source" represents? Or do you assume whatever detritus is floating around in your head has some inherent validity. If the latter, there's little to be gained by me answering your questions by giving you verifiable facts--verifiable by reputable, trusted sources. Something you've yet to offer, Rapier.

[bush_cheney2004]

Wouldn't success or failure depend on what you actually did in your military career and in Congress? Or is that a heretical thought? You think McCain learned from his failures? I think not. But at least you acknowledge that McCain is a failure.

Senator McCain cannot be an "abject failure" by any reasonable measure. There must be successes along the way to achieve public office and the nomination of his party.

It's not necessary to Swift Boat McCain, his dismal record speaks for itself. Swift Boating is a tactic based on lies, not truth. What fact mentioned in all the sources I've posted is incorrect? Name some.

Your facts are dripping with falsehoods and mischaracterizations. For instance, what does "20 hours of combat" mean in the context of a WestPac deployment as an A-4 pilot launching and trapping from a carrier off of 'Nam (Yankee Station). I don't think you know....because if you did, you would recognize the absurdity of such a claim.

[M.Dancer]

You're repeating your self now. By cut and past, do you mean "source"? Do you have an sources that support your assertions? Do you understand or appreciate the fundamental, universally-accepted (apart from you) aspect of scholarship or debate that referencing a "source" represents?

I guess then your thesis was heavy on (dodgey) footnotes but devoid of original content. Perhaps your thesis was on plagiarism? Your profs must have really enjoyed themselves.

[Stephen Best]

McCain's final sortie was against a NVA airfiled.

Moore is a liar.

Actually, Rapier, since McCain has refused to release most of military records (unlike Senator Kerry) what's your source that McCain's last sortie was against an NVA airfield?

According to McCain, "The date was Oct. 26, 1967. I was on my 23rd mission, flying right over the heart of Hanoi in a dive at about 4,500 feet, when a Russian missile the size of a telephone pole came up—the sky was full of them—and blew the right wing off my Skyhawk dive bomber. It went into an inverted, almost straight-down spin." [source: The POW Years - Part 1: John McCain in His Own Words - "Shot Down"]

[Stephen Best]

Is that your considered legal opinion or just one that you think sounds good?

Actually, it is international law. Following orders is not a defense against war crimes. Or did you not know that, Rapier.

[Stephen Best]

I guess then your thesis was heavy on (dodgey) footnotes but devoid of original content. Perhaps your thesis was on plagiarism? Your profs must have really enjoyed themselves.

It's plagiarism when you don't credit your sources, Rapier. Did you not know that?

Did you read my thesis? Or are you offering another unsupported, uninformed opinion?

[M.Dancer]

If the latter, there's little to be gained by me answering your questions by giving you verifiable facts--verifiable by reputable, trusted sources. Something you've yet to offer, Rapier.

That's because I have yet to make any scurilous claims. If I do though, they will be my own words. As to verifiable facts....

What's so special and heroic about being shot down while bombing innocent civilians?

McCain final mission wasbombing a NVA airbase.

[M.Dancer]

It's plagiarism when you don't credit your sources, Rapier. Did you not know that?

Did you read my thesis? Or are you offering another unsupported, uninformed opinion?

Now I know why you refuse to comment on your own but like to post links instead. Your reading comprehension is a little rusty. I did not say your thesis was plagiarized, I said it must have been about plagiarism

No need to aplologise,

[Stephen Best]

Senator McCain cannot be an "abject failure" by any reasonable measure. There must be successes along the way to achieve public office and the nomination of his party.

Your facts are dripping with falsehoods and mischaracterizations. For instance, what does "20 hours of combat" mean in the context of a WestPac deployment as an A-4 pilot launching and trapping from a carrier off of 'Nam (Yankee Station). I don't think you know....because if you did, you would recognize the absurdity of such a claim.

Actually, I'm not making the claim. It's military people who served in Vietnam and/or with John McCain. Unlike you, it would seem, I consider the various views, assess the credibility of those reporting, and form an opinion which, if new facts warrant, might change. As of now, the evidence seems clear. McCain is a disreputable, incompetent, unethical braggart who advanced thanks to his family's connections and his second wife's inherited fortune. He is an embarrassment to the U.S. Military and U.S. Congress. He is unfit to be President of the United States.

[M.Dancer]

Actually, it is international law. Following orders is not a defense against war crimes. Or did you not know that, Rapier.

It takes far more courage to speak truth to power and say that a war is wrong than parrot "Yes, sir! Yes, sir!" and go on to unnecessarily kill innocent people who pose no threat to your country. Kerry was a hero. Fonda was hero. We know now that they were right and the official hero-mongers like McCain were dead wrong. Supporting the troops by encouraging them to follow the orders of venal commanders and political masters is no support at all. It's betrayal. It's treason of the highest order.

That's load, Cudgel.

Is that again your considered opinion, that the troops were killing innocent civilians? Encouraging troops not to follow their legal orders is a crime. May not be an international law, but it is the law.

Fonda was/is a media attention whore, period. And that's her right.