Russian Threats!

[Army Guy]

good to see that you are ok AG

Thanks, things have been, lets say very interesting and busy over the last couple of weeks...now if i could only get over the time change i'll be laughing...

[Army Guy]

We seem to be looking at different sets of facts: you: the size and tech specs of machine; I: the results it actually achieves.

That may explain the differences in interpretation.

That was my very piont to PC, if the US wanted those very objectives he listed they could have easily taken them....so why hav'nt they...

Really? When why are we still there, after what seems to be longer than WWII?

it takes much longer to rebuild a nation, than it takes to destroy one...

And it's been nearly two decades since they've done it. While US is still holding on to its stick - and using it, on occasion. Giving a nice lesson to everybody, that despite all the peaceful claims, the size of the stick (so to say) is that matters. Who's to blame that some pupils just learn so fast these days?

That leason was not taught by the US, but much earlier in history.

You got it. The stick isn't going away. And that's just too bad. Because we all know that peace and order exists where people consciously avoid violence and use justice (impartial and independent) to resolve their differences. Not where everybody uses a stick to prove their point.

And until man grows up it is they way things will be....until then there will always be a need to arm one self in order to protest his rights and freedoms....

[myata]

....until then there will always be a need to arm one self in order to protest his rights and freedoms....

even if ,000s miles away from one's home.

Maybe, before all else, man should learn to call things their own names?

[jbg]

You mean Berlin, as in the capital of Germany? Retaliation for agression.

What aggression? When the USSR thugs pushed Benes out a window and said he committed suicide?

Alaska was a natural expansion of the Russian Empire to the East, not a colony in a far-away part of the world.

Another way of looking at that (edited to fix spelling) is that all of the Siberian expansion is occupation of lands that speak different languages and are certainly, in no way, "Russian". Alaska was a natural eastward expansion of the Czar's imperialism.

Edited September 14, 2008 by jbg

[John Doe]

A friend from Russia sent me an interesting link. Seems like there's a kind of alternative opposition in Russia that we have never heard of.

http://vdesyatku.com/eng/index.php?option=...ge&Itemid=1

[PoliticalCitizen]

A friend from Russia sent me an interesting link. Seems like there's a kind of alternative opposition in Russia that we have never heard of.

http://vdesyatku.com/eng/index.php?option=...ge&Itemid=1

All that does is proves that there's freedom of speech in Russia.

[Adhesion]

.com link? if there were any freedom of speech - why didn't they they take Russian .ru domen? I tell you why. Because once site gets certain popularity - it will be closed by order of ex-KGB - FSB. Or admins will be locked down. Or, like recently, they just killed the owner of Ingushetia.ru. Google it, if you don't believe me. So Real opposition had to take non-Russian domens to realize their "freedom of speech".

[MMT]

.com link? if there were any freedom of speech - why didn't they they take Russian .ru domen? I tell you why. Because once site gets certain popularity - it will be closed by order of ex-KGB - FSB. Or admins will be locked down. Or, like recently, they just killed the owner of Ingushetia.ru. Google it, if you don't believe me. So Real opposition had to take non-Russian domens to realize their "freedom of speech".

You are absolutely right. Zone RU is under strict control of neo-KGB. It's not like in communist China yet, where the state fully controls citizen's access to the internet. But it's pretty close.

This particular site is being blocked by many ISP's in Russia. The blockade started in April 2008, when Russia's state official demanded special investigation of why such opposition site still exists

So many readers of this site in Russia have to use TOR or similar proxy service to get into the site.

PC, as person born in USSR, you'd better read this site in Russian http://vdesyatku.com

You'd realize that the site owner resides in USA. Basically, it's almost the only way for the freedom of speech in Russia today: to build really independent website outside of Russia's jurisdiction and share ideas freely then.

[myata]

A sad reality is that by its grossly unilateral, undiscriminating position in this conflict, the West in fact boosted less democratic forces in Russia and in all likelihood delayed its arrival to a full fledged democracy. It strange that it needs explanation for the learned politicians, but a large society like Russia's cannot turn around on a dime (not at least, without hugely negative effects for itself, which would likely outweigh all short term gains). Understanding, trust, confidence builds over a long time; the record of the West toward Russia so far has been that of broken promises, overlooked committments, and most recently, rash and unjust condemnations. If this results in less democratic Russia, seeking allegiances with the undemocratic societies of the East, rather than us in the West, we (West) will have only ourselves (OK, mostly ourselves) to blame for that.

[GostHacked]

All that does is proves that there's freedom of speech in Russia.

Freedom is speach in a Commie country?? Don't let the Republicans know !!

Adhesion

.com link? if there were any freedom of speech - why didn't they they take Russian .ru domen? I tell you why. Because once site gets certain popularity - it will be closed by order of ex-KGB - FSB. Or admins will be locked down. Or, like recently, they just killed the owner of Ingushetia.ru. Google it, if you don't believe me. So Real opposition had to take non-Russian domens to realize their "freedom of speech".

Why so many .com in places like Canada, US the UK, ???? If you think that speach is not being oppressed in the US/Canada, then you need to wake up .. sure it is not as bad as over in Russia (or wherever we think people are bad) it is slowly going away. By your logic this website should be a .ca website.. why is it not?? It does not have to be. Official government things use the countries domain. Anything related to the Canada's government is .gov.ca. You need to understand domains and how they are used.

Google, Free Speach Zones in the US regarding elections.

[M.Dancer]

Freedom is speach in a Commie country?? Don't let the Republicans know !!

If you think that speach is not being oppressed in the US/Canada, then you need to wake up ..

Examples please.

[PoliticalCitizen]

You are absolutely right. Zone RU is under strict control of neo-KGB. It's not like in communist China yet, where the state fully controls citizen's access to the internet. But it's pretty close.

This particular site is being blocked by many ISP's in Russia. The blockade started in April 2008, when Russia's state official demanded special investigation of why such opposition site still exists

So many readers of this site in Russia have to use TOR or similar proxy service to get into the site.

PC, as person born in USSR, you'd better read this site in Russian http://vdesyatku.com

You'd realize that the site owner resides in USA. Basically, it's almost the only way for the freedom of speech in Russia today: to build really independent website outside of Russia's jurisdiction and share ideas freely then.

Uh-oh, MMT, it looks like you're right and wrong at the same time...

I tried to go to that website from work and guess what I got:

"Blocked by Websense. Reason: The Websense category "Racism and Hate" is filtered."

I think this is just a Rusophob website, and Websense agrees with me.

My initial reply was a joke made to discourage further refernces to the above site from certain new members of the board. I personally do not believe that there is freedom of speech in today's Russia.

I also believe that the Western mass-media companies are under strict control by the US administration. There's no other explanation to the silence and the ensuing one-sided representation of the Georgian conflict.

The difference is that to find anti-American websites you don't have to go to the "Racism and Hate" department.

[MMT]

Uh-oh, MMT, it looks like you're right and wrong at the same time...

I tried to go to that website from work and guess what I got:

"Blocked by Websense. Reason: The Websense category "Racism and Hate" is filtered."

I think this is just a Rusophob website, and Websense agrees with me.

My initial reply was a joke made to discourage further refernces to the above site from certain new members of the board. I personally do not believe that there is freedom of speech in today's Russia.

I also believe that the Western mass-media companies are under strict control by the US administration. There's no other explanation to the silence and the ensuing one-sided representation of the Georgian conflict.

The difference is that to find anti-American websites you don't have to go to the "Racism and Hate" department.

I don't see where I got it wrong. Your ISP is in agreement with Russia's fascist regime to treat real Russians as Russophobes. Is that my fault?

I don't think so. It's well known trick to call white as black and vise versa. Don't be fooled by the game.

It's just a proof that neo-KGB is far from the Russia's territory. Be prepared.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I don't see where I got it wrong. Your ISP is in agreement with Russia's fascist regime to treat real Russians as Russophobes. Is that my fault?

I don't think so. It's well known trick to call white as black and vise versa. Don't be fooled by the game.

It's just a proof that neo-KGB is far from the Russia's territory. Be prepared.

It is not "my" ISP. My ISP doesn't care what websites I access.

I happen to work for a VERY large US company at one of its offices in Toronto.

And the "Faschist" label goes both ways - USA and Russia - with USA actively harming people outside of its borders.

There's also much more "Democracy" in Russia than there is in China - doesn't prevent any Western power from dealing with China... which proves that "Nobody likes the weak". The stronger Russia will become the less talk there will be about how "Un-Democratic" it is...

EDIT:

Forgot to say one more thing: The "Real Russians", believe it or not, live in Russia and have voted in absolute majority for the Medvedev / Putin government.

Edited September 15, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[MMT]

It is not "my" ISP. My ISP doesn't care what websites I access.

I happen to work for a VERY large US company at one of its offices in Toronto.

And the "Faschist" label goes both ways - USA and Russia - with USA actively harming people outside of its borders.

There's also much more "Democracy" in Russia than there is in China - doesn't prevent any Western power from dealing with China... which proves that "Nobody likes the weak". The stronger Russia will become the less talk there will be about how "Un-Democratic" it is...

EDIT:

Forgot to say one more thing: The "Real Russians", believe it or not, live in Russia and have voted in absolute majority for the Medvedev / Putin government.

Actually, it's my typo. I meant to say that neo-KGB is NOT far from Russia's territory. And it's nice proof that your American company works together with Putin's regime Even if it claims that it doesn't or was not aware of.

I understand you admiring the strength of Russia's empire on Russian's bones. I just don't get how you don't see that it's going to the end.

Regarding definition of fascism - check Wikipedia. You'd be surprised that Putin's regime gains 8 out of 10 points (or even more) to be recognized as true fascist regime.

As of US, I doubt that you could find more than 5 out of 10. So it's 50-50 or less score

[PoliticalCitizen]

Actually, it's my typo. I meant to say that neo-KGB is NOT far from Russia's territory. And it's nice proof that your American company works together with Putin's regime Even if it claims that it doesn't or was not aware of.

I understand you admiring the strength of Russia's empire on Russian's bones. I just don't get how you don't see that it's going to the end.

Regarding definition of fascism - check Wikipedia. You'd be surprised that Putin's regime gains 8 out of 10 points (or even more) to be recognized as true fascist regime.

As of US, I doubt that you could find more than 5 out of 10. So it's 50-50 or less score

Websense is a leader in filtering the Web for corporate networks and it's blocking LCBO and streaming media as well. Very hard to link to KGB or FSB...

I'm not admiring the strength of "Russian Empire" yet, I'm just contemplating its rise from the ashes of former USSR. As to what's going to end and how - we shall all see very soon... My personal opinion is that the first thing that's going to end (or has already ended) is USA's and Israel's indiscriminate agression against soverign nations...

Russian oil reserves should last another 20 years at today's capacity, which is plenty of time and money to realize the Putin / Medvedev vision of the new world (or at least new Eurasia).

If we judge US and Russia by their actions outside of their territory - the American Democracy has inflicted more pain and suffering on the countries everywhere in the world than Russian Authocracy can ever hope to...

It also looks that the US media's brainwashing of Americans has achieved what the Russia's control over press couldn't: most Americans actually BELIEVE their administration is doing the right thing by invading and occupying Middle Eastern countries...

[MMT]

Websense is a leader in filtering the Web for corporate networks and it's blocking LCBO and streaming media as well. Very hard to link to KGB or FSB...

I'm not admiring the strength of "Russian Empire" yet, I'm just contemplating its rise from the ashes of former USSR. As to what's going to end and how - we shall all see very soon... My personal opinion is that the first thing that's going to end (or has already ended) is USA's and Israel's indiscriminate agression against soverign nations...

Russian oil reserves should last another 20 years at today's capacity, which is plenty of time and money to realize the Putin / Medvedev vision of the new world (or at least new Eurasia).

If we judge US and Russia by their actions outside of their territory - the American Democracy has inflicted more pain and suffering on the countries everywhere in the world than Russian Authocracy can ever hope to...

It also looks that the US media's brainwashing of Americans has achieved what the Russia's control over press couldn't: most Americans actually BELIEVE their administration is doing the right thing by invading and occupying Middle Eastern countries...

Russia's natural gas & oil reserves are already exhausted due to barbaric production for the last 10 years and absence of relevant development of new fields. Mr.Chubays already hinted to reconsider contracts with the West because of the growing gas production decline in Russia and possible interruption of service.

I'm not up to convincing you in what would go to the end first or second. Keep your own illusions.

As you said, we'll see. BTW, we'll see that much sooner than you could even count on.

Edited September 15, 2008 by MMT

[jbg]

A sad reality is that by its grossly unilateral, undiscriminating position in this conflict, the West in fact boosted less democratic forces in Russia and in all likelihood delayed its arrival to a full fledged democracy.

What, by your rights, has the West ever done right? I guess we've produced the best governments and standards of living in the world, and the countries that people pound the doors to get into, by being colossal f****ups.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Russia's natural gas & oil reserves are already exhausted due to barbaric production for the last 10 years and absence of relevant development of new fields. Mr.Chubays already hinted to reconsider contracts with the West because of the growing gas production decline in Russia and possible interruption of service.

I'm not up to convincing you in what would go to the end first or second. Keep your own illusions.

As you said, we'll see. BTW, we'll see that much sooner than you could even count on.

Maybe your estimates are better than the official Russian calculations... maybe not... besides, Russia isn't selling just its own gas and oil - it is also re-selling Azeri and other former USSR nations' natrual products...

About illusions - life is an illusion... only death is real

I can see that you're quite opinionated - but whose side are you on? USA? Western Europe? Russian renegades?

[PoliticalCitizen]

Back to the topic - Russia will get its own UAVs this year - first reconnaissance, then the attack version:

http://kb-lutch.ru/tipchakeng.htm

[MMT]

Maybe your estimates are better than the official Russian calculations... maybe not... besides, Russia isn't selling just its own gas and oil - it is also re-selling Azeri and other former USSR nations' natrual products...

About illusions - life is an illusion... only death is real

I can see that you're quite opinionated - but whose side are you on? USA? Western Europe? Russian renegades?

I stand for freedom and progress, no matter where. People first, state last.

Russia's joy of gas supply from the South is obviously coming to the end. As an example, new Turkmenistan leadership prefers contracts with China rather than Russia.

[myata]

What, by your rights, has the West ever done right?

Certainly not invading places ,000 miles away under obscure pretext, nor praising somebody for exact same thing somebody else was blasted short while back.

[Willson T.]

Websense is a leader in filtering the Web for corporate networks and it's blocking LCBO and streaming media as well. Very hard to link to KGB or FSB...

Who cares about Websense? Are you their shareholder?

Or you are using them to support your point that desire of some Russians to get rid of evil empire and build their own national country is illegal?

I think smart people (and decision makers) don't care about Websense's opinion what is right or wrong.

It also looks that the US media's brainwashing of Americans has achieved what the Russia's control over press couldn't: most Americans actually BELIEVE their administration is doing the right thing by invading and occupying Middle Eastern countries...

I doubt that you have seen any significant number of Americans. Check Iraq war opinions pools data.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Who cares about Websense? Are you their shareholder?

Or you are using them to support your point that desire of some Russians to get rid of evil empire and build their own national country is illegal?

I think smart people (and decision makers) don't care about Websense's opinion what is right or wrong.

I doubt that you have seen any significant number of Americans. Check Iraq war opinions pools data.

Mister Willson T. (or should I say MMT's alter ego?)

A hate website is not a cool way to promote democratic ideas, wouldn't you agree?

Saying Russians want to be liberated from Russian Federation is the same as saying Americans want to be liberated of the United States of America. To any person with even a limited capability of crtitical thought both are nonsense and absurd.

I don't care about American polls. I see the results of American votes.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I stand for freedom and progress, no matter where. People first, state last.

Russia's joy of gas supply from the South is obviously coming to the end. As an example, new Turkmenistan leadership prefers contracts with China rather than Russia.

Where there's no progress there cannot be freedom. Back in the old days most of humanity were slaves.

Progress comes first, and for it to come a strong State is required to preserve and distribute the natural resources that fuel the progress. Without a strong State those resources would be robbed by foreign companies and the people of the land would have gotten next to nothing.

So my point of veiw is develop the country to a level where freedom can be possible first, then talk about how to become more "democratic" and get more "freedom". So far the American idea of "Freedom" outside USA is robbing foreign nations of their oil.

Turkmenistan will sell to Russia because Russia can afford to buy natural gas at EU prices