Are lefties bullies?

[bk59]

This topic is intended to discuss the idea that left wing people are bullies with fascist tendencies.

Sorry, that's just not true. It may be true of some with left wing views, but certainly not all. Of course, it is also true of some with right wing views, but certainly not all. Other posters have already picked up on that fact though.

I have a friend who owns a T-Shirt which says "Conservative" in big letters on the front. He mentioned that the other day he was in a 7-11 store and a girl with a "rainbow" patch on her backpack (gay symbol) snickered "that's just sickening" as she walked past - as if it's ok for her to wear her politics on her sleave but not ok for him.

Yes, and many conservative types have said much worse things to homosexuals and their supporters. One anecdote does not prove your point.

So why are we so silent when being harassed by lefties? Are they less mature? Are they more volatile?

Your willingness to characterize those who disagree with your politics as immature or volatile says more about you than it does about "the left". Ironically, this type of name calling is indicative of bullying.

Shouldn't we all start speaking up and being more proud of OUR views the same way they are of theirs?

This isn't really a problem for a lot of the right wing people I know. No more than it is true for a lot of the left wing people I know.

This is pretty true. Plus since they usually take positions from conventional wisdom (example environmentalism or the Iraq war), they haven't done their research, which makes them a pretty easy opponent in a debate.

The other thing that works against us as conservatives in social situations is that conservatives take their positions from rational thought which requires explanation, whereas lefties tend to be emotional "feel gooders", which is why the jokes on Joen Stewart and Colbert go over so well - they often aren't based upon fact or reason, but it feels good and right at the time - kind of like one night stands and mcdonalds.

Hahaha. Of course. All right wing views are rational and all left wing views are unfounded and touchy-feely. Again, these types of characterizations are indicative of bullying and definitely not based on rational thought. To pick up on one example from your post, how much of a part did rational thought play in determining that Iraq definitely had weapons of mass destruction?

Look, no matter which side of an issue you come down on, characterizing the other side in these ways hurts you more than it hurts them. There are rational people on both ends of the political spectrum. Pretend otherwise if that will make you feel better.

I think it also has a streak of righteousness to it. Demonizing those who disagree with you demonstrates your dedication. Of course, the universe doesn't care about your dedication. It works its own way and the most we can do is learn to understand it. Still, righteous dedication can often impress the ignorant and get them to follow you.

Perhaps we should have a spin-off to this thread. Are "leftwing" thinkers less practical, or dare I say, less intelligent?

Intelligence is perhaps not the best term. Some lefties are geniuses at fooling themselves. I'm searching for a term that means less "one to one" or congruent to reality.

Sigh. Once again, self-righteousness is a trait found across the political spectrum. And clearly the act of demonizing one's political opposites is not limited to the left. If you have any doubt of that just read your own post. Or some of the above posts. All "lefties" are immature? Volatile? Irrational? Unintelligent or impractical?

It is so much easier to pretend those who disagree with you have something innately wrong with them. It is much easier than having a dialogue.

[Wild Bill]

Sigh. Once again, self-righteousness is a trait found across the political spectrum. And clearly the act of demonizing one's political opposites is not limited to the left. If you have any doubt of that just read your own post. Or some of the above posts. All "lefties" are immature? Volatile? Irrational? Unintelligent or impractical?

It is so much easier to pretend those who disagree with you have something innately wrong with them. It is much easier than having a dialogue.

Sorry if I touched a nerve! I knew that if I made such a provocative post there would immediately be a "lefty" response that indeed WAS polite and logical!

The exception that proves the rule.

The real difference between the sides appears to be simple manners, at least from my own observations. As support for my view I offer virtually ANY post from "babble.com" that is intended as a rebuttal to any non-"left" premise. I found my experience there to be so vile that I will never go there again.

If I want abuse I'll pay for it, as the saying goes.

I repeat my point that much of this is simple righteousness. Many lefties I've encountered do not appear to consider themselves rude or confrontational. It's more as if they see a "rightie" as some "shotgun rack in a pickup truck" American cartoon character who is obviously mean and nasty and thus must be opposed! By opposing him of course they are demonstrating that they themselves are "one of the good guys".

I'm willing to grant that you yourself have not done this, at least in this thread. I also realize that my own experience can be dismissed as anecdotal. Experience is not worthless, however. I'm 55 years old and can truthfully say that in all those years I have met only ONE leftwing debater who has NEVER stooped to ad hominem rebuttals with me and who I have no problem calling a friend.

The worst examples are those who are attending university or within 10 years or so of graduation. As a matter of interest, are there ANY conservatives left at Queen's or have they eaten them all?

If you'd like a "fer instance" I could cite David Suzuki. There's a man who says that folks like me who disagree with him should be thrown in jail!

[madmax]

I notice that the six replies here are all from "right wingers". Hmmmm, wonder where all the left wing bullies are?

From my experience. The people in this thread are the moderates. I haven't felt pushed around by any of them. Well except by that fascist M. Dancer who can't skate and therefore isn't a Canadian. I bet he doesn't drink beer either.

I don't know where all the "Right Wing" bullies are hiding. Infact many vocal CPC supporters must be taking a holiday, because their absense is very much noticed in virtually every thread. Which makes things dull around here.

One thing that I notice on the forum compared to a Social Setting. Every now and again, a far left or far right wing activist will come on the forum with their extreme viewpoint and argue with the left and the right on these forums, in a one man/woman conflict against everyone. The thread goes on for awhile until, virtually everyone has had it with the said individual, and the personal attacks start. Soon after the "RW/LW loner" abandons his/her cause and disappears never to be seen or heard from again.

In social settings I have seen politics and religious discussions result in violence. Then I pick myself up off the ground, look for my glasses, get some ice cubes out of the punch bowl and suck on them until the next punch comes from the left, erm, right, erm straight on the button, off the solar plexis and into the bread basket.

Then I change the topic to hockey, and the superior skills of the European players.

Then I pick myself up off the ground, look for my glasses, get some ice cubes out of the punch and suck on them until the next punch comes from the left, erm, right, straight on the button, off the solar plexis, into the bread basket.

Then I get a Blue, no wait, a Canadian..... no Sleemans Clear.

BTW this is the 2nd time this month I have been labelled a "right winger".

Take note.

[BubberMiley]

Leftists tend to be self-righteous. They ride bicycles and look down on anyone in a car, let alone an SUV.

You don't find your observation of their supposed self-righteousness to be self-righteous in itself, given your noble tolerance of SUV drivers?

[Shakeyhands]

Perhaps "religious" tinge is the wrong word. Leftists tend to be self-righteous. They ride bicycles and look down on anyone in a car, let alone an SUV.

Funny. I drive an SUV, I also ride a dirt bike which is a sport dominated by 'right wing' types.

Have you ever noticed how right wingers try to pigeon hole others who disagree with their rhetoric?

[AngusThermopyle]

Yes indeed, conservatives run Canada and the U.S. -- and look what a great job they've done!

How very true, if only they'd run it more like Russia or North Korea or China. Perhaps it should be run more like just about any African or Middle Eastern country. Or maybe a European nation with there idyllic societies that suffer no problems at all.

Quite often I have found that those who label themselves as left will do nothing but criticize the very society they live in whilst not recognizing the fact that they live in just about the best place they possibly could. Personally this just tells me that they have no personal experience with the rest of the world.

Of course extreme views abound on both ends of the spectrum, thats only to be expected. For instance, thew other day I was talking to a person who would definitely fall into the category of "right wing". This person told me in all seriousness that they didn't believe in Gravity, Evolution and Physics. This would be an example of either extreme ignorance or extreme ideological leanings. Conversely I have met those who are "left", they in turn have told me that all the worlds problems could be solved if we all acted as a collective and funded every good cause one could think of. When asked who would generate this funding without a Capitalist system in place they have become angry and loud.

So, we have those on both sides who harbour extreme and irrational views. Some would label me as Conservative, on this I would disagree with them. Personally I prefer to approach any subject from a basis of practicality and non emotion, if possible. Of course, as with anything there are no absolutes so from time to time I find emotion clouding my thoughts on a subject (quite a bit lately, for some reason I've been irritable and rather short recently).

what I do find strange is the way that people just jump to conclusions and automatically label others. So, bullies do exist on both sides of the spectrum and one will find those on both sides who operate from a basis of emotion rather than rationality. Perhaps I've just been unfortunate in that I seem to meet quite a few extreme leftists. Wimpy loud strident insulting ones at that (one of them is my nephew actually, a professional student who at 33 years old has never held a job).

Edited July 31, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[bk59]

Sorry if I touched a nerve! I knew that if I made such a provocative post there would immediately be a "lefty" response that indeed WAS polite and logical!

Well, you didn't really touch a nerve in that my post may have been interpreted to be more dramatic than I intended. Still, it makes me want to bang my head against a wall when people complain about how mistreated they are and then proceed to mistreat others in exactly the same way. It just makes no sense!

The real difference between the sides appears to be simple manners, at least from my own observations. As support for my view I offer virtually ANY post from "babble.com" that is intended as a rebuttal to any non-"left" premise. I found my experience there to be so vile that I will never go there again.

I have never been on that forum, but I can believe your experience there. I find that this is not limited to left or right wingers, or even political forums. There is something about the internet that dehumanizes other people and makes it easier for people to act like jacka**es. Part of the problem is that without body language or tone of voice a person's intent can seem more sinister than they intended. But most of the problem is just that people feel comfortable "yelling at" and insulting others online when they would probably not do that in a face-to-face conversation. I totally agree with you that if you find yourself in an online community that cannot police itself and abide by simple manners, then it's not worth the trouble.

The worst examples are those who are attending university or within 10 years or so of graduation. As a matter of interest, are there ANY conservatives left at Queen's or have they eaten them all?

I am going to assume that you are talking about Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. If so, then I am kind of surprised by this. I know a good number of Queen's people and more than a few self-identify as conservatives. Now if you had said York University...

If you'd like a "fer instance" I could cite David Suzuki. There's a man who says that folks like me who disagree with him should be thrown in jail!

Yes, well... as I said, all sides have their zealots. Taking your specific example though, unfortunately I do think David Suzuki has a number of intelligent things to say. The problem is they get mixed in with the comments like your jail comment above. (Is there a website where he said that? I'd be interested in reading the context of that statement.)

[Black Dog]

Have any of the other conservatives felt ostracized, attacked or bullied by those in disagreement? Isn't that fascism, if it happens alot?

Short answer: not even fucking close.

[guyser]

In social settings I have seen politics and religious discussions result in violence. Then I pick myself up off the ground, look for my glasses, get some ice cubes out of the punch bowl and suck on them until the next punch comes from the left, erm, right, erm straight on the button, off the solar plexis and into the bread basket.

Then I change the topic to hockey, and the superior skills of the European players.

Then I pick myself up off the ground, look for my glasses, get some ice cubes out of the punch and suck on them until the next punch comes from the left, erm, right, straight on the button, off the solar plexis, into the bread basket.

I can help you here.

Get contacts.

[madmax]

I can help you here.

Get contacts.

Couldn't do that now. To much money invested in masking tape. Works great on the frames.

[capricorn]

I find that over the last couple of years, the verbal attacks on Conservatives by bloggers on many Liberal websites have become more vulgar and devoid of any content. Many of those bloggers seem more excitable these days. I think this is due to their frustration that their party lost power to the Conservatives and a sort of irritation that they are stuck with an inept leader. It must be very aggravating for Liberal partisans to deal with Dion's constant ducking to avoid an election and media articles that draw attention to his indecisiveness.

There are some excellent Liberal bloggers that I enjoy and I visit regularly to read their views. But I would not post anything in those blogs because the few times I did I was met with cursing and called a Conservative troll. So now, the more outrageous blogs and bloggers have become a source of comedy for me.

I don't think this trend will change as long as the Liberals are in opposition. As a matter of fact, IMO verbal attacks on Conservatives and their supporters will intensify.

As far as face-to-face social interaction with Liberals, well once someone identifies themselves as a Liberal, I avoid political talk like the plague.

As for any bullying by Conservatives, I'm sure it's out there. I may have been guilty of this behaviour myself but it's so much easier to point fingers, isn't it.

[eyeball]

...left wing people are bullies...

Go tell it to Joe McCarthy.

[CANADIEN]

Sorry if I touched a nerve! I knew that if I made such a provocative post there would immediately be a "lefty" response that indeed WAS polite and logical!

The exception that proves the rule.

The real difference between the sides appears to be simple manners, at least from my own observations. As support for my view I offer virtually ANY post from "babble.com" that is intended as a rebuttal to any non-"left" premise. I found my experience there to be so vile that I will never go there again.

If I want abuse I'll pay for it, as the saying goes.

I repeat my point that much of this is simple righteousness. Many lefties I've encountered do not appear to consider themselves rude or confrontational. It's more as if they see a "rightie" as some "shotgun rack in a pickup truck" American cartoon character who is obviously mean and nasty and thus must be opposed! By opposing him of course they are demonstrating that they themselves are "one of the good guys".

I'm willing to grant that you yourself have not done this, at least in this thread. I also realize that my own experience can be dismissed as anecdotal. Experience is not worthless, however. I'm 55 years old and can truthfully say that in all those years I have met only ONE leftwing debater who has NEVER stooped to ad hominem rebuttals with me and who I have no problem calling a friend.

The worst examples are those who are attending university or within 10 years or so of graduation. As a matter of interest, are there ANY conservatives left at Queen's or have they eaten them all?

If you'd like a "fer instance" I could cite David Suzuki. There's a man who says that folks like me who disagree with him should be thrown in jail!

For any case of rude, self-righteous, bullying "left-winger" you put, I can produce from my own experience cases at the other end of the spectrum. People, some with university degrees, demonize anyone to the left of the good old Reform Party, believe their opponents are stupid lazy bums, and fuel their sense of self-importance with attacks on the poor, immigrants, gays etc.

For any David Suzuki calling for the arrest of people for simply disagreeing with him (quote please?), we have plenty of people, both in the media and on forums, all too willing to call "traitors" anyone who oppose the foreign policy of the current U.S. and Canadian governments.

Extremism, demonizing of opponents and self-righteousness are not "right-wing" or "left-wing".

[GostHacked]

Left wing bullies are facists?? Right wing bullies are pacifists??

I think I am missing something here. I'd consider this thread to be trolling of some type. But, I could be just another lefty bully that wears a tinfoil hat.

[Wild Bill]

For any case of rude, self-righteous, bullying "left-winger" you put, I can produce from my own experience cases at the other end of the spectrum. People, some with university degrees, demonize anyone to the left of the good old Reform Party, believe their opponents are stupid lazy bums, and fuel their sense of self-importance with attacks on the poor, immigrants, gays etc.

Extremism, demonizing of opponents and self-righteousness are not "right-wing" or "left-wing".

Interesting. Perhaps you didn't realize it but you just stuck an undeserved label on the old Reform Party! Demonizing, maybe?

I know 'cuz I was there! The members as a whole were hardly right wing, unless you call populist democrats to be right wing. They had more minority faces in their caucus than all the other parties combined, if you call that right wing. They believed in less government and more individual rights. Was that right wing?

They believed in the original concept of Canada as a Confederation of equal provinces and that Ottawa had gone too far in trying to rule provinces like the American model towards their states. Was that right wing?

They believed in no special privileges for any minority, considering that to be just another form of racism. Was that right wing?

Or is right wing to mean anybody who is not Liberal?

[JerrySeinfeld]

I repeat my point that much of this is simple righteousness. Many lefties I've encountered do not appear to consider themselves rude or confrontational. It's more as if they see a "rightie" as some "shotgun rack in a pickup truck" American cartoon character who is obviously mean and nasty and thus must be opposed! By opposing him of course they are demonstrating that they themselves are "one of the good guys".

Wow. That is a such perfect description of so many left wing people I come across.

When I say I don't favor gay marriage - only civil unions, or if I mention my admiration for GW Bush, left wing people act disgusted, react with visciousness and venomour namecalling. "Fascism" "Bigot" "Asshole" come to mind.

In fact, us right wingers wouldn't have to dig too far to find similar terms used by left wingers on this site.

What you say is completely correct, WB. Left wing pols seem to have somehow claimed a monopoly on the "good guys" image - consistently tarring their opponents with eveil terminology. This demonizing has until now, mostly worked.

But it's healthy to have these kinds of discussions, because what it does is shine a spotlight on a very dirty, cheap way to "win" and argument or a debate.

Unfortunately for those who use such terms, they really don't understand the irony in what they're doing. Because using big, sweeping nasty words to shut down someone's opinion is EXACTLY what fascists do. SO by calling someone a fascist to shut them up, you're actually acting more like a fascist than they are.

This is the "creeping fascism" we're seeing in today's society.

NO discussion on climate change - accept the dogma or you are a "earth hater" and a lacky of "big oil"

NO discussion on the war - you either want out or you are fascist murderer

NO discussion on health care - you either wantr universal or you're a money grubbing lacky of "big pharma"

NO discussion on Radical Islam - if you bring up the problems it has created you are a "racist bigot"

Big, sweeping judgements designed to end the conversation and perpetuate the dogma.

Fascism, really.

[GostHacked]

Jerry, it creeps in on both sides, on the extreme ends of the right and left.

NO discussion on climate change - accept the dogma or you are a "earth hater" and a lacky of "big oil"

Al Gore.

NO discussion on the war - you either want out or you are fascist murderer

YOU HATE FREEDOM!!!!!!

NO discussion on health care - you either wantr universal or you're a money grubbing lacky of "big pharma"

Socialism and communism get thrown around by the right when a universal health care plan is mentioned.

NO discussion on Radical Islam - if you bring up the problems it has created you are a "racist bigot"

Radical Christians > Radical Muslims.

Big, sweeping judgements designed to end the conversation and perpetuate the dogma.

Fascism, really.

[guyser]

When I say I don't favor gay marriage - only civil unions,

Curious, why would that be?

[Black Dog]

This is also-how can I put this?-really really stupid:

...using big, sweeping nasty words to shut down someone's opinion is EXACTLY what fascists do.

Actually, uh, fascists-real fascists-don't use big sweeping nasty words. to shut down someone's opinion. They use prisons, guns, gas chambers, that sort of thing.

SO by calling someone a fascist to shut them up, you're actually acting more like a fascist than they are.

Just out of curiosity, what do you call a person who calls someone a fascist because they were called a fascist? It's like a Moibus strip of stupid.

This is the "creeping fascism" we're seeing in today's society.

Big, sweeping judgements designed to end the conversation and perpetuate the dogma.

Sweeping judgments like "lefties are bullies?" That kind of sweeping?

Based on this thread, the first sweeping judgement to come to mind is "Christ, when did right wingers turn into such a bunch of crybaby pansies?" Culture of victimhood indeed.

Beyond that, I really question the veracity of these accounts of abuse. Has the thought crossed your mind that people call you an asshole, not because of your beliefs, but because of your behaviour? In other words, you're not an asshole because you're a right winger. Maybe you're asshole who just happens to be an right winger.

[CANADIEN]

Interesting. Perhaps you didn't realize it but you just stuck an undeserved label on the old Reform Party! Demonizing, maybe?

I know 'cuz I was there! The members as a whole were hardly right wing, unless you call populist democrats to be right wing. They had more minority faces in their caucus than all the other parties combined, if you call that right wing. They believed in less government and more individual rights. Was that right wing?

They believed in the original concept of Canada as a Confederation of equal provinces and that Ottawa had gone too far in trying to rule provinces like the American model towards their states. Was that right wing?

They believed in no special privileges for any minority, considering that to be just another form of racism. Was that right wing?

Or is right wing to mean anybody who is not Liberal?

Feel free to see the terms "right-wing" and "left-wing" as derogatory. I don't.

[bk59]

In fact, us right wingers wouldn't have to dig too far to find similar terms used by left wingers on this site.

This post would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. Left wingers wouldn't even have to leave this topic to find similar terms used by right wingers on this site. All you are doing is showing that people of every political ideology can be stupid. Black Dog is right to call this "a Moibus strip of stupid".

What you say is completely correct, WB. Left wing pols seem to have somehow claimed a monopoly on the "good guys" image - consistently tarring their opponents with eveil terminology. This demonizing has until now, mostly worked.

Sort of like how you are claiming a monopoly on the "good guys" image? Sort of like how you are claiming that all "lefties" are out there demonizing all "righties"? Sort of like how you are tarring your opponents with evil terminology?

Unfortunately for those who use such terms, they really don't understand the irony in what they're doing. Because using big, sweeping nasty words to shut down someone's opinion is EXACTLY what fascists do. SO by calling someone a fascist to shut them up, you're actually acting more like a fascist than they are.

Please tell me that you see the irony in what you are doing! By calling "lefties" fascists because they label the "righties" as fascist, you yourself, by your own definition, are a fascist.

[Guest American Woman]

This thread has been a real chuckle to read through-- people on the right name-calling and insulting people on the left as they piously accuse the left of the very behavior they are engaging in. There have been a few posts in rebuttal that have been right on, but I really don't think those involved do see the irony, making the thread all the more humorous. All one can do is shake their head in disbelief. Anyone who doesn't see that there are bullies on both ends of the political spectrum is willfully blind.

But since this topic has been raised, I feel compelled to bring up the behavior of a couple of prominent Republicans, namely Limbaugh and McCain, who insulted a child; not even for what the child did, but for her looks. Is there a bigger, more pathetic bully than an adult who picks on a child? Talk about "simpering wimps and pussies" (lovely names that were used to describe the left in this very thread). I don't know of any prominent Democrat who has attacked a child. If anyone can show me otherwise, I'll stand corrected.

[AngusThermopyle]

"simpering wimps and pussies" (lovely names that were used to describe the left in this very thread).

Well thank you, thats so nice of you to say.

Now, what about this child bullying, I didn't hear about it myself.

[August1991]

Actually, uh, fascists-real fascists-don't use big sweeping nasty words. to shut down someone's opinion. They use prisons, guns, gas chambers, that sort of thing.

Give it a break, Black Dog. I'm not going to claim that Alberta's Human Rights Commission is fascist (although it has threatened with prison a poor schmuck in Red Deer if he so much as sends an email about his views of gays). The OP refers to "bullies" not "fascists".

----

I may have inadvertently started/encouraged the idea here that both the Left and the Right can be bullies. Well, I suppose jerks come in different sizes and colours. It just seems to me that Leftists who are jerks are particular in their jerkdom (and too many Leftists share the trait).

IMV, Leftists feel like the perennial victims or unoved child of the family. When they defend their viewpoint, they do it in a way that goes beyond merely espousing an opinion. Leftists are on a crusade to correct fundamental injustices in the universe.

I'll give one example of this: gay marriage. Many people don't like the idea of gays getting married. Heck, there may be many people who don't like gays. Many on the Left don't accept this. They view any public expression of any opinion against gay marriage as tantamount to racism, sexism or all the other evil -isms.

The world's a big place. I prefer to live and let live - including to live in a world where some people say stupid things or even make stupid choices. The Right generally leaves the individual free to choose in his or her own way - and suffer the consequences of their choices. The Left is a busybody that, for starters, wants to take my money and spend on the edification of someone else. The Left can't avoid this fundamental view that the State must intervene in people's lives. At it's base, this is what makes Leftists irritating bullies compared to those on the right.

[Guest American Woman]

Leftists are on a crusade to correct fundamental injustices in the universe. I'll give one example of this: gay marriage. Many people don't like the idea of gays getting married. Heck, there may be many people who don't like gays. Many on the Left don't accept this. [...] The Right generally leaves the individual free to choose in his or her own way - and suffer the consequences of their choices.

So it's the Left that's trying so hard to prevent gay marriages and a woman's choice to have an abortion?

The Right doesn't leave the individual free to choose his or her own way. If the Right merely "didn't like the idea of gays getting married," then the Left would "accept it."

Btw, do you think being on a crusade to correct fundamental injustices is a bad thing? Do you think people should just accept injustices?