Are you 'hungry for an election'?

[bush_cheney2004]

One big difference between a Liberal minority, and the Tory one, would be, for once, a meaningful action on climate change. All parties, as majority of Canadians, agree that immediate action should be taken. Except, of course, Harpers' Conservatives, who're working really hard to make it happen - in China and India.

Indeed.....we all remember the very aggressive actions taken during the former Liberal minority or majority.

[maldon_road]

One big difference between a Liberal minority, and the Tory one, would be, for once, a meaningful action on climate change.

You mean like the way Dion implemented Kyoto?

[blueblood]

It may well be but there is a growing number of Liberals including Dion who seem to want to go.

Yes, it does.

If the green shift sells to Ontario voters, which it most likely is doing, then it does look like bye bye Steve. This is a huge gamble for the Liberals, Ontario voters have re-elected a premier who likes to tax the dickens out of businesses, this plan definetely is something I think urban voters would go for. I might not like it or agree with it, but that's probably what's going to happen.

[Wild Bill]

If the green shift sells to Ontario voters, which it most likely is doing, then it does look like bye bye Steve. This is a huge gamble for the Liberals, Ontario voters have re-elected a premier who likes to tax the dickens out of businesses, this plan definetely is something I think urban voters would go for. I might not like it or agree with it, but that's probably what's going to happen.

I'd be very surprised if the NewGST sells in Ontario. Only because Ontario is hurting economically more and more. When an electorate is hurting they usually don't calmly weigh pros and cons. They are rabidly against any new costs like taxes and not in a mood to discuss tax "shifts" and tradeoffs. Governments historically have lost any confidence in doing anything but tax grabs excused by bafflegab, if they ever had any confidence from the voters, that is. Especially Liberals!

No, if Dion pulls off a miracle I'll stick my neck out and predict that it will either be because of some other unforeseen issue or a major stumble by the Tories, a la the Liberal Adscam. It would have to be a major scandal. A few hundred thousand or even a few millions in campaign money or possible bribes to Cadman won't cut it. Not in the same league. Voters are still looking to punish Liberals. It is the election AFTER this one that will be the real battle! Harper will be the incumbent, and being the incumbent has both advantages and disadvantages.

[blueblood]

I'd be very surprised if the NewGST sells in Ontario. Only because Ontario is hurting economically more and more. When an electorate is hurting they usually don't calmly weigh pros and cons. They are rabidly against any new costs like taxes and not in a mood to discuss tax "shifts" and tradeoffs. Governments historically have lost any confidence in doing anything but tax grabs excused by bafflegab, if they ever had any confidence from the voters, that is. Especially Liberals!

No, if Dion pulls off a miracle I'll stick my neck out and predict that it will either be because of some other unforeseen issue or a major stumble by the Tories, a la the Liberal Adscam. It would have to be a major scandal. A few hundred thousand or even a few millions in campaign money or possible bribes to Cadman won't cut it. Not in the same league. Voters are still looking to punish Liberals. It is the election AFTER this one that will be the real battle! Harper will be the incumbent, and being the incumbent has both advantages and disadvantages.

Ontario is also hurting under a tory federal gov't. This is why Obama has such a huge chance of winning in the US. Under the Liberals it was good time charlie in Ontario, now its not. Of course that is not the actions of the federal gov't that cause economic downturns, but explain that to the average voter who thinks, I had it better under the Libs, I'll vote for them. Like I said it's a gamble, Dion has went all in with a straight, he hopes Harper doesn't have the flush.

[madmax]

If the green shift sells to Ontario voters, which it most likely is doing, then it does look like bye bye Steve. This is a huge gamble for the Liberals, Ontario voters have re-elected a premier who likes to tax the dickens out of businesses, this plan definetely is something I think urban voters would go for. I might not like it or agree with it, but that's probably what's going to happen.

Bollocks.

[madmax]

Ontario is also hurting under a tory federal gov't. This is why Obama has such a huge chance of winning in the US. Under the Liberals it was good time charlie in Ontario, now its not. Of course that is not the actions of the federal gov't that cause economic downturns, but explain that to the average voter who thinks, I had it better under the Libs, I'll vote for them. Like I said it's a gamble, Dion has went all in with a straight, he hopes Harper doesn't have the flush.

This is probably a more accurate vision along with Wild Bills Assessment of Ontario.

[madmax]

double post

Edited July 25, 2008 by madmax

[Bryan]

For one thing, the election will show how serious we're about real climate change action. It's obvious by now that Harpers main strategy is to talk the problem out of existence.

Looks like it worked, considering the problem does not exist.

[Richie777]

If we do have an election, the resulting number of seats will likely be the same. Neither the CPC nor the LPC can get the support for a majority, the Liberals especially with Dion at the helm. The only real result I can see would be a change of leadership in the Liberal Party.

[Wilber]

Yawn.

[Moonlight Graham]

I'm hungry for a competent party that i'd actually be somewhat enthusiastic about voting for instead of these bunches of fools.

[maldon_road]

It sounds like Steph is proposing a trade war. We impose tariffs so other countries retaliate. Wait and see what that does for our economy and unemployment levels.

Dion touts tariffs for 'free-riders'

Liberal Leader proposes action against climate-change villains while hinting at a fall vote

OTTAWA -- Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said yesterday he would impose tariffs on imports from countries that Canada deems are not doing enough in the battle against global warming.

TRADE

[myata]

Looks like it worked, considering the problem does not exist.

It's certainly no secret to anybody what Harpers Tories think about the issue, and what demographics they'll be relying on in the election.

[noahbody]

I'm starting to think Dion was chosen as leader because the Liberals wanted to punish Canadians for not re-electing Martin, who was entitled to rule Canada for years.

[jdobbin]

It sounds like Steph is proposing a trade war. We impose tariffs so other countries retaliate. Wait and see what that does for our economy and unemployment levels.

Other countries are already considering tariffs on carbon. We'll see what happens with the Europeans in the next months.

[jdobbin]

It's certainly no secret to anybody what Harpers Tories think about the issue, and what demographics they'll be relying on in the election.

Yes, that will win them the same amount of seats that they have in Alberta now.

[Bryan]

It's certainly no secret to anybody what Harpers Tories think about the issue, and what demographics they'll be relying on in the election.

This is one of the issues where the CPC has gone way too far to the left for my liking. If there were still a real conservative choice available, I would not be holding my nose and voting CPC as just the least bad out of nothing but poor choices.

If anything, the CPC should have your support considering their environmental policies go further than what the Liberals accomplished in the last 12 years they were in power. The Liberals are fond of making grand announcements but delivering little more than vapor, only to vilify the opposition when they get into power and actually act. Don't think Harper is not going to enjoy rubbing that into Dion's face every chance he gets if he forces an election.

[maldon_road]

Other countries are already considering tariffs on carbon. We'll see what happens with the Europeans in the next months.

Which would be just as illegal as if Dion were to implement it.

[jdobbin]

Which would be just as illegal as if Dion were to implement it.

Actually, there is an opinion that it may be legal under WTO rules. That link has already been posted in these forums.

[Wilber]

Actually, there is an opinion that it may be legal under WTO rules. That link has already been posted in these forums.

Are you prepared for a decade long tariff war while the courts sort it out? Opinions are like that thing everyone has.

[jdobbin]

Are you prepared for a decade long tariff war while the courts sort it out? Opinions are like that thing everyone has.

We have short and long tariffs wars all the time. It isn't the preferred way to do things but it is allowed for "dumping" and other selected areas of dispute in trade.

As for the rest of your comment, why resort to vulgarity and veiled insult?

[Wilber]

We have short and long tariffs wars all the time. It isn't the preferred way to do things but it is allowed for "dumping" and other selected areas of dispute in trade.

As for the rest of your comment, why resort to vulgarity and veiled insult?

I take it the answer is yes and any negative consequences to Canadian business be damned. This is not a tariff that is responding to the predatory trade practices of others but may very well be taken as one by them.

As for the rest of my comment, I was merely pointing out the true value of an "opinion" when it comes to money or the law.

[jdobbin]

I take it the answer is yes and any negative consequences to Canadian business be damned. This is not a tariff that is responding to the predatory trade practices of others but may very well be taken as one by them.

I think I have answered this question before.

I don't think tariffs should be imposed if there are alternatives.

In the Montreal Protocol, the result of the agreement was an alliance of 500 North American companies that went around the world building CFC-free factories and industries. It was hugely successful and profitable for both the companies doing the building and the countries receiving the updated CFC-free industries. An improvement in the ozone was noted thereafter.

I think the objective on climate change should be to do the same thing.

As for the rest of my comment, I was merely pointing out the true value of an "opinion" when it comes to money or the law.

I've pointed out that I don't prefer tariffs but in some cases, it has been the only legal stick in the WTO framework to get a country to abide by standards of trade. It worked in terms of the U.S. steel industry.

Edited July 25, 2008 by jdobbin

[Wilber]

By all means get agreements but unilaterally imposing import tariffs based on Canada's arbitrary determination of a foreign company's carbon footprint would be the height of stupidity and invites retaliation.

If the WTO doesn't already have a clear determination on this issue, the legal stick could very well end up being used on Canada.