What are the underlying causes of Black crime?

[Argus]

It seems impossible to ignore - if you're observant - the preponderance of Black crime in Canada, the United States, and the UK. Is there a common, underlying cause?

I think we can explain the underlying social causes of Black crime in the United States as relating to slavery and racism and the establishment of what became massive black ghettos and then slums. However, Blacks in the United States are more likely to be involved in crime even where they grow up in middle class areas.

In Canada, the origins of Black crime involve our lax immigration laws and the importation of tens of thousands of Jamaican and Caribbean youth whose single parent mothers had first immigrated here as maids and nannies, and later sponsored their often estranged children many years later. We can add in lax crime control, of course, especially for youth.

The problem in the UK seems to be similar to ours, involving lazy immigration and very slack law enforcement.

So the origins of Black crime can be somewhat explained. And criminologists tell us that communal crime is like a stone rolling downhill. It's very hard to stop once it gets going and picks up speed. The more people in a community/peer group who are involved with crime the less the community disapproves of criminals. When police arrive at Jane and Finch because of some kind of report of violence they're more likely to be yelled at and have things thrown at them by the community at large than get any kind of support. Getting witnesses to come forth in Black areas when people are shot or killed is almost impossible. This mirrors the situation in US and UK Black areas. So many of the community have been in prison or know people in prison that disapproval of crime and criminal behaviour is considerably lower than in other communities.

The problem, then, is what to do about it.

[eyeball]

The problem, then, is what to do about it.

Try narrowing the income gap. I think central banks should be placing this right up there with controlling inflation in terms of importance. Beyond that I don't think anything but time and evolution will ever change things. There are just too many complex factors and governments are simply too stupid to do anything about them which is definitely a problem.

[DrGreenthumb]

Number 1 reason is that brown skinned people are much more likely to be charged and convicted of drug "crime". Even though whites use drugs at the same rate or higher than dark skinned people they are FAR LESS likely to be charged or convicted of the "crime" of possessing drugs. This causes them to be put in prisons(crime training camps), where they are abused and "hardened", and causes a cycle of poverty due to the fact that a criminal record makes finding meaningful employment more difficult if not impossible. It is the drug laws enacted for racist reasons and their continued racist enforcement that makes them an effective tool for the established wealth to keep the poor(minorities) down.

All the reasons given to outlaw cannabis in the first place were totally unscientific garbage meant to appeal white majorities fear of blacks, mexicans, and chinese(in Canada).

Emily Murphy, the mother of Canadian prohibition was a member of the anti-chinese league, Harry Anslinger the father of american prohibition, was fond of warning people how marijuana made "darkies" feel as good as white men, and that it may cause white women to seek sexual relations with negroes, entertainers, and any others.

These racists and their modern day followers are the reason "Blacks" are more targeted by the "justice" system.

[Michael Hardner]

I think that the community itself should be charged with addressing the problem, and that society at large should do whatever is required to help.

I suspect that it doesn't help so much when external agencies to parachute in and deliver a predestined solution.

[M.Dancer]

The underlying problem to Black's crime is the conspiracy between the officers of the company. Obvioulsy comptrollers should work at larms length from the Board of Directors so that peopel like Black cannot simply write themselves cheques with out some form of oversight.

[Argus]

Try narrowing the income gap. I think central banks should be placing this right up there with controlling inflation in terms of importance. Beyond that I don't think anything but time and evolution will ever change things. There are just too many complex factors and governments are simply too stupid to do anything about them which is definitely a problem.

I don't think the income gap is the reason. There have been many times in Canada's history when the income gap between the poor and the wealthy was far greater than it is now, times when there was no welfare, no uic, no pensions, and you either worked or you and your family starved. Compared to that, welfare is pretty comfortable.

If speaking about the United States, I think the reasons are those vast slums, and the fact the people in them have no hope. You have a situation there where entire generations have been on welfare, where no one really knows anyone with a decent job, and no one really believes in getting one. These people have given up hope of joining in the greater community. They don't read the newspaper classified ads or go searching for jobs, and most put little effort into education. "Why bother when you're not going to get a job anyway" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Pimps and drug dealers make money, and they flash it around with gold chains and chrome teeth and big cards and flashy clothes. They become the success stories young men want to emulate. Why do you think rappers want to appear, even if they're not, to be gang bangers and swaggering criminals? And so, these people become the heros of young black men, with their swagger and their bling and their songs of violence, and their own violent ways. Young black women, in the meantime, see images of the "ho" in every rapper's video, and in the broader culture, as well. The only way to have power is to use their sexual power to look and act sexy, to be a "ho" wearing very little clothing. There is nowhere in any of that for family values or responsibility, and so most young blacks are born to single mothers who are themselves barely out of their childhood. Fathers drift away, and have little to do with the raising of children, which spawns yet more trouble.

The same ingredients are at work in Canada. They just had a different origin in the immigration of Jamaican nannies and maids and the subsequent migration of their resentful, estranged children years later.

[Argus]

Number 1 reason is that brown skinned people are much more likely to be charged and convicted of drug "crime". Even though whites use drugs at the same rate or higher than dark skinned people they are FAR LESS likely to be charged or convicted of the "crime" of possessing drugs.

That has little relation to skin colour and more to do with their economic means and the methods of distribution. If you're reasonably middle class you can be a heroin addict or coke head and still not run afoul of the police. You still go to work. You drive your own car. You buy your drugs off some middle class guy who works at Wal-Mart, and doesn't hang around street corners. You do your drugs at home, not in a crackhouse. I know a couple of cokeheads, you see. And while their lives are a disaster, neither has really committed any extraneous crimes (as opposed to buying and using narcotics). By contrast many of the crackheads and cokeheads in the Black community can't afford their drugs without stealing the money, and as they have no jobs they have more time to use, and thus get more deeply and quickly addicted, which means they have to steal still more. It is that criminal activity spawned by drugs which draws most of the police attention down on individual users.

Then too, judges are likely to be more lenient on drug possession cases where the druggie has a job and has no record of extraneous criminal activity.

The cops don't generally concern themselves much with individual possession of marijuana. That's simply your pet project.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Argus

[DrGreenthumb]

That has little relation to skin colour and more to do with their economic means and the methods of distribution. If you're reasonably middle class you can be a heroin addict or coke head and still not run afoul of the police. You still go to work. You drive your own car. You buy your drugs off some middle class guy who works at Wal-Mart, and doesn't hang around street corners. You do your drugs at home, not in a crackhouse. I know a couple of cokeheads, you see. And while their lives are a disaster, neither has really committed any extraneous crimes (as opposed to buying and using narcotics). By contrast many of the crackheads and cokeheads in the Black community can't afford their drugs without stealing the money, and as they have no jobs they have more time to use, and thus get more deeply and quickly addicted, which means they have to steal still more. It is that criminal activity spawned by drugs which draws most of the police attention down on individual users.

Then too, judges are likely to be more lenient on drug possession cases where the druggie has a job and has no record of extraneous criminal activity.

The cops don't generally concern themselves much with individual possession of marijuana. That's simply your pet project.

yeah just my pet project, the thousands of people charged with simple possession of cannabis every year in Canada are all just figments of my imagination. That's why stats show that about 80% of drug charges laid in Canada are for simple possession of cannabis. Just because you say something over and over doesn't make it true argus. In REALITY police DO concern themselves with individual possession of cannabis. They shouldn't but they do.

Edited July 20, 2008 by DrGreenthumb

[August1991]

I think we can explain the underlying social causes of Black crime in the United States as relating to slavery and racism and the establishment of what became massive black ghettos and then slums. However, Blacks in the United States are more likely to be involved in crime even where they grow up in middle class areas.

In Canada, the origins of Black crime involve our lax immigration laws and the importation of tens of thousands of Jamaican and Caribbean youth whose single parent mothers had first immigrated here as maids and nannies, and later sponsored their often estranged children many years later. We can add in lax crime control, of course, especially for youth.

Argus, I'll follow your thought.

According to you, blacks whose ancestors were slaves tend to cause social problems now - southern US, Jamaica, Caribbean. (I'll ignore for the moment many Jamaicans and southern US blacks - for example, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice.)

Instead, I'll ask you Argus about your ancestors, several generations ago, and then I'll ask you about how you raise your children or your grandchildren.

----

It is remarkable that unlike many of his supporters, Barack Obama's ancestors were never slaves.

[Oleg Bach]

Argus, I'll follow your thought.

According to you, blacks whose ancestors were slaves tend to cause social problems now - southern US, Jamaica, Caribbean. (I'll ignore for the moment many Jamaicans and southern US blacks - for example, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice.)

Instead, I'll ask you Argus about your ancestors, several generations ago, and then I'll ask you about how you raise your children or your grandchildren.

----

It is remarkable that unlike many of his supporters, Barack Obama's ancestors were never slaves.

The underlying problem with black crime is the same as with white crime - bad breeding - there are stupid white N*****s and stupid black ones also..evil and stupidiy are kin! There are people no matter what colour who go through life being poor stewards to the earth...they use abuse and destroy...they just do not have the creative gifts that some folks have - and this class hates intelligence and kindness...in time the masses will rise up and swarm the intelligencia that generates beauty and prosperity...and in time once we are gone - all will turn to shit and stay that way - soviet russia is a prime example of this phenomena...They need the intelligent and gifted but the liberal equalization policy is geared to debase and get rid of talented people...leaving only the base to rule and the base is destructive.

[Argus]

Argus, I'll follow your thought.

According to you, blacks whose ancestors were slaves tend to cause social problems now - southern US, Jamaica, Caribbean. (I'll ignore for the moment many Jamaicans and southern US blacks - for example, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice.)

Instead, I'll ask you Argus about your ancestors, several generations ago, and then I'll ask you about how you raise your children or your grandchildren.

It really doesn't matter how I turned out or how I raise my children. We're not speaking here about individuals who are "damaged" somehow by having slavery in their ancestry, but of a community and it's culture which is damaged by the social and economic conditions slavery left. This is not, btw, my theory, but I had thought fairly general knowledge. Masses of freed blacks wound up traveling to a few cities, where they basically became paid slaves in all but name. They were poor, for the most part, but they maintained family cohesion and dignity up into the sixties, when liberalized social programs (ironically) and the advent of drugs led to lifetimes on welfare. Around this time came the womens movement, and the lessoning of the sense of responsibility among men to look after their women, and the resulting children of that union. A crackdown on police behaviour and the granting of more "rights" made it impossible for police to keep a lid on the crime which these conditions helped create. Crime feeds on crime and the more of it which exists in a community, the more people know friends, relatives, boyfriends, who are incarcerated, who are criminals, the less community disapproval there is of crime, and thus, the more it grows.

Mind you, none of this explains Jamaica, and it's crime rate, but no doubt there are additional social problems in its history I don't know about. I do know that Jamaican women have children very young, and rarely marry the fathers.

[Oleg Bach]

It really doesn't matter how I turned out or how I raise my children. We're not speaking here about individuals who are "damaged" somehow by having slavery in their ancestry, but of a community and it's culture which is damaged by the social and economic conditions slavery left. This is not, btw, my theory, but I had thought fairly general knowledge. Masses of freed blacks wound up traveling to a few cities, where they basically became paid slaves in all but name. They were poor, for the most part, but they maintained family cohesion and dignity up into the sixties, when liberalized social programs (ironically) and the advent of drugs led to lifetimes on welfare. Around this time came the womens movement, and the lessoning of the sense of responsibility among men to look after their women, and the resulting children of that union. A crackdown on police behaviour and the granting of more "rights" made it impossible for police to keep a lid on the crime which these conditions helped create. Crime feeds on crime and the more of it which exists in a community, the more people know friends, relatives, boyfriends, who are incarcerated, who are criminals, the less community disapproval there is of crime, and thus, the more it grows.

Mind you, none of this explains Jamaica, and it's crime rate, but no doubt there are additional social problems in its history I don't know about. I do know that Jamaican women have children very young, and rarely marry the fathers.

Both of you are side tracked - unless the lower classes - black or white are kept in check - there will be problems..when you create "equality" - the populace does not rise to the higher intellectual and spiritual level but debases to the lowest - because there are more stupid people than good and bright ones...George Bernard Shaw an avowed socialist - and he would know said "The majority is always wrong" - we need Kingship or Queenship - where all are judged realistically and rewarded or given penalty according to their actions. ALSO- The police forces are now debased to small and stupid individuals who are of inferiour quaility and do not differ much from the crimminal - what ever happend to the big Scottish cop of honour who would say to the wayward youth..."let me teach you the difference between the bull rushes and the bull shit".....we need real law givers and real law enforcement - we just don't have either anymore.

[August1991]

They were poor, for the most part, but they maintained family cohesion and dignity up into the sixties, when liberalized social programs (ironically) and the advent of drugs led to lifetimes on welfare. Around this time came the womens movement, and the lessoning of the sense of responsibility among men to look after their women, and the resulting children of that union. A crackdown on police behaviour and the granting of more "rights" made it impossible for police to keep a lid on the crime which these conditions helped create.

...

Mind you, none of this explains Jamaica, and it's crime rate, but no doubt there are additional social problems in its history I don't know about. I do know that Jamaican women have children very young, and rarely marry the fathers.

So, except for Jamaica, you blame Black crime on the liberal 1960s, drugs, weak policing, feminism, welfare and liberals and Liberals. Really?

----

Barack Obama seems like a decent person with a wonderful voice. His father was black but never a slave. His mother was white.

Argus, applying the Scientific Method, have you ever considered the idea that coincidence does not imply causation? If two variables coincide, this does not mean that one causes the other? Something else may cause both.

People standing outside buildings often have cigarettes and lighters. If I see someone outside a building, should I conclude that they can light my cigarette?

If you see crime and people with black skin, where is the cause and effect? Or is it something else?

Edited July 20, 2008 by August1991

[Oleg Bach]

So, except for Jamaica, you blame Back crime on the liberal 1960s, drugs, weak policing, feminism, welfare and liberals and Liberals. Really?

----

Barack Obama seems like a decent person with a wonderful voice. His father was black but never a slave. His mother was white.

Argus, applying the Scientific Method, have you ever considered the idea that coincidence does not imply causation? If two variables coincide, this does not mean that one causes the other?

If you see crime and people with black skin, where is the cause and effect?

It was the conservative policy (1957) - when old white guys took over the charity system and replaced it with the agency system that let big buisness control social policy - "no way in hell are we going to give those big penised black men a welfare check so they can make more babies" - so in time they drove the black fathers out...and by 1980 the damage was done and the sons had no fathers because our elite dispised them....now we pay for our mistakes...it was better to leave them in the home - whether they worked or not - it was better to encourage the old Baptist black grandmothers to carry on with Christian teachings - but NO! We secularized and - now we pay for destroying the Christian culture that we instilled in the blacks..and replaced it with a NOTHING...So why are we surprised when they do not know what goodness and honour are? We gave it and then took it back - and NOW we all suffer in fear.

[Shakeyhands]

It was the conservative policy (1957) - when old white guys took over the charity system and replaced it with the agency system that let big buisness control social policy - "no way in hell are we going to give those big penised black men a welfare check so they can make more babies" - so in time they drove the black fathers out...and by 1980 the damage was done and the sons had no fathers because our elite dispised them....now we pay for our mistakes...it was better to leave them in the home - whether they worked or not - it was better to encourage the old Baptist black grandmothers to carry on with Christian teachings - but NO! We secularized and - now we pay for destroying the Christian culture that we instilled in the blacks..and replaced it with a NOTHING...So why are we surprised when they do not know what goodness and honour are? We gave it and then took it back - and NOW we all suffer in fear.

Absolute GOLD.

[Oleg Bach]

Absolute GOLD.

I saw it all - and my first loves father was an old conservative - who later was appointed to the senate...as I bashed about the court system - and having taken some money from the gov in the early days to raise my kids...I as a white guy had to hide under the bed as the welfare worker came to examine the brood...Yes - I had to play non-existant in order to survive as a father and raise my children - If this policy was used against me...a white man - then surely it was more intensely delivered upon the blacks at that time - anyway as I was dealing with the Supreme Court - I happened to fall upon a document called "Marriage of Convienience" and it surprisingly describe by first loves father as the man who was in part responsible for stealing away the charity system from the "Community Chest" - a Christian orgainization.

I Guess as the mentors of Conrad Black were taking power they did not want the average guy NOT to work in one of their companies - IF a man (labourer) wanted to upgrade his existance - he could not quit the job on the factory floor - so these old insurance executives at the time - made sure there was no welfare for them - and that if they did not behave they would kidnapp the thing they loved - their kids - hence the begining of the Childrens Aid Society..and those insidious parasistes the UNITED WAY...IT WAS A GRAND PLAN- for a complete take over that eventually ended up with Conrad in the slammer as a fall guy - very interesting 50 years...and I witnessed a bit of it.

[August1991]

It was the conservative policy (1957) - when old white guys took over the charity system and replaced it with the agency system that let big buisness control social policy - "no way in hell are we going to give those big penised black men a welfare check so they can make more babies" - so in time they drove the black fathers out...and by 1980 the damage was done and the sons had no fathers because our elite dispised them....now we pay for our mistakes...it was better to leave them in the home - whether they worked or not - it was better to encourage the old Baptist black grandmothers to carry on with Christian teachings - but NO! We secularized and - now we pay for destroying the Christian culture that we instilled in the blacks..and replaced it with a NOTHING...So why are we surprised when they do not know what goodness and honour are? We gave it and then took it back - and NOW we all suffer in fear.

Absolute gold? These are the ravings of a lunatic.

The Internet and this forum have become a place for grafitti.

You want to spray paint a message? Drop an urban bomb? Post on MLF.

[August1991]

I saw it all - and my first loves father was an old conservative - who later was appointed to the senate...as I bashed about the court system - and having taken some money from the gov in the early days to raise my kids...I as a white guy had to hide under the bed as the welfare worker came to examine the brood...Yes - I had to play non-existant in order to survive as a father and raise my children - If this policy was used against me...a white man - then surely it was more intensely delivered upon the blacks at that time - anyway as I was dealing with the Supreme Court - I happened to fall upon a document called "Marriage of Convienience" and it surprisingly describe by first loves father as the man who was in part responsible for stealing away the charity system from the "Community Chest" - a Christian orgainization.

I Guess as the mentors of Conrad Black were taking power they did not want the average guy NOT to work in one of their companies - IF a man (labourer) wanted to upgrade his existance - he could not quit the job on the factory floor - so these old insurance executives at the time - made sure there was no welfare for them - and that if they did not behave they would kidnapp the thing they loved - their kids - hence the begining of the Childrens Aid Society..and those insidious parasistes the UNITED WAY...IT WAS A GRAND PLAN- for a complete take over that eventually ended up with Conrad in the slammer as a fall guy - very interesting 50 years...and I witnessed a bit of it.

QED.

Is this what you want Greg?

In the future, you'll have more.

[Oleg Bach]

QED.

Is this what you want Greg?

In the future, you'll have more.

I don't know what or who Greg is - but if you want me to shut up and never speak again - so be it...as far as more in the future - that's it - it's over and after 30 years I am free...I did my time under these old gangsters who enriched themselves selling booze to the Americans...and took the money and bought Canada - The nation is at a turning point- the old guard does not have heirs...AND - I must say they did manage the estate well...I really don't know what this nation will do with out the old boys---who are my seniors - me a nobody....at least knows how the system was put together - and who will be king now ....now me! I bow out gracefully.....you guys can run the show...you took my energy and the rest is for ME - good night guys and love to you all - and that's the secret - you have to love the people/

[M.Dancer]

The Toronto Star just did a feature on crime. One of the conclusions is:

The Star's analysis of the data shows that non-whites were 53 per cent more likely than whites not to be convicted.One explanation for the difference is that judges could be giving more discharges to non-white offenders as a "reward" for dead time spent in jail awaiting trial. The 1995 Report of the Commission on Systemic Racism in the Ontario Criminal Justice System determined that black accused, for example, are more often held without bail.

"My guess," said an Ontario judge who reviewed the findings but who asked not to be identified, "is that if the 'non-whites' have spent more time than 'whites' in pre-trial custody, one of the ways judges may 'reward' them is by giving a discharge rather than registering a conviction, especially as there may be immigration consequences if a conviction is registered."

That same systemic racism report found that black accused were more likely than white accused to plead not guilty, which would increase the chance of not being convicted.

http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/Crime/article/460755

My question is, if found guilty, why are the convicted rewarded?

[Argus]

The Toronto Star just did a feature on crime. One of the conclusions is:

http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/Crime/article/460755

My question is, if found guilty, why are the convicted rewarded?

The answer would probably be in the thread on the idiotic decisions of bleeding heart judges. However, we could also speculate that poorer people, ie, non-white immigrants, have their legal representation paid for by the state, and judges, almost all of whom are liberal (and Liberal) tend to feel more sympathetic towards non-whites, and to immigrants, and to not want convictions to cause them immigration trouble - as the article suggests.

Personally I'd want every one of them deported. But then, I'm a heartless conservative.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Argus

[Shakeyhands]

Absolute gold? These are the ravings of a lunatic.

And that is exactly what makes it gold my friend....

[guyser]

Absolute gold? These are the ravings of a lunatic.

Could you narrow it down who you are referring to ?

[M.Dancer]

Could you narrow it down who you are referring to ?

In this case, Oleg....

[AngusThermopyle]

QED.

Is this what you want Greg?

In the future, you'll have more.

You really are a prat.

Let him speak, he has as much right as you to say what is on his mind. If you hate that idea then just shut up, there, how does it feel when someone tries to censor you?