Canada's Gas Prices

[whowhere]

The large hydro developments in this country were all built and owned by government, that is why the price of hydro can be regulated. Gas companies buy gas on the open market at the going rate and deliver it to your home on a cost plus basis. Some may have to apply for rate increases but they pay the going rate for gas or what ever rate they have hedged.

When did we ever regulate a 10% return for oil companies? Why would they bother investing in Canada when they could make so much more somewhere else?

If regulating the returns of the oil companies combined with stiffer EPA standards for vehicles brings about stability it ought to be pursued.

It is within Canada's means to regulate for the greater benefit of Canada. Canada has a history of doing this so it's not that outlandish. The logistics of Canada requires the use of a car. Canada is not Europe. We are larger and we don't have the train infrastructure they do. Canadians require cars.

Investors will invest because they may only get a 10% return from oil used by Canada but this return would not extend to oil being sold on the world markets. Supply and demand being what it is; Every drop used by Canada will be less available to sell on the open market. This shortage will drive up the price on the remaining oil to be sold to the world market. The investors will still make their returns but instead of Canada subsidizing world oil prices, the world will be subsidizing Canada's oil prices. .

[Wilber]

Investors will invest because they may only get a 10% return from oil used by Canada but this return would not extend to oil being sold on the world markets. Supply and demand being what it is; Every drop used by Canada will be less available to sell on the open market. This shortage will drive up the price on the remaining oil to be sold to the world market. The investors will still make their returns but instead of Canada subsidizing world oil prices, the world will be subsidizing Canada's oil prices. .

I hate to break this to you but Canada currently imports around the same amount of oil as it exports. Use all the domestic supply for domestic use and there will be little left for export. Bummer, what.

[bush_cheney2004]

...It is within Canada's means to regulate for the greater benefit of Canada. Canada has a history of doing this so it's not that outlandish. The logistics of Canada requires the use of a car. Canada is not Europe. We are larger and we don't have the train infrastructure they do. Canadians require cars.

Really? Canada requires cars??? Then keeping with your "theme", why didn't Canada develop a domestic automotive manufacturing base on its own, without foreign investment? The answer is directly related to petroleum production, grasshopper!

...This shortage will drive up the price on the remaining oil to be sold to the world market. The investors will still make their returns but instead of Canada subsidizing world oil prices, the world will be subsidizing Canada's oil prices. .

Nope...Canadians would still pay more, particularly for imported crude and distillates.

[whowhere]

I hate to break this to you but Canada currently imports around the same amount of oil as it exports. Use all the domestic supply for domestic use and there will be little left for export. Bummer, what.

http://www.indexmundi.com/canada/oil_consumption.html

According to this site Canada's oil consumption per day is 2.3 million barrels per day.

http://www.capp.ca/raw.asp?x=1&dt=NTV&dn=103586

Acccording to this link Canada is producing about 3 million barrels per day

http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/c...-production/647

I thought this to be an interesting article

[whowhere]

Nope...Canadians would still pay more, particularly for imported crude and distillates.

If Canada refined its own oil, it would have the by products of refining (including aviation fuel). Why would Canada need to import this when they apart of the refining process

Edited July 20, 2008 by whowhere

[Wilber]

http://www.indexmundi.com/canada/oil_consumption.html

According to this site Canada's oil consumption per day is 2.3 million barrels per day.

http://www.capp.ca/raw.asp?x=1&dt=NTV&dn=103586

Acccording to this link Canada is producing about 3 million barrels per day

http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/c...-production/647

I thought this to be an interesting article

That's good if it's true but I don't know how you are going get enough out of selling of 700K barrels to subsidize 2.3 B barrels of consumption to the levels you are talking about. To subsidize Canadian consumption down to $65 a barrel you would have to find someone who would be willing to pay $214 a barrel for those 700K barrels you export. Better be prepared to go dig the holes yourself as well.

As far as oil being a good investment goes, feel free to invest and take the risk but I guess you would rather someone else did that and just gave you the oil.

[bush_cheney2004]

If Canada refined its own oil, it would have the by products of refining (including aviation fuel). Why would Canada need to import this when they apart of the refining process

And if pigs had wings, they could fly. What part of Canada not having enough of these capabilities (capitalization, refining, and distribution) do you not understand? Canada even imports blood.

[Wilber]

If Canada refined its own oil, it would have the by products of refining (including aviation fuel). Why would Canada need to import this when they apart of the refining process

Canada and the US are big countries. What is the point of transporting something 3000 KM across one of them when it may be readily readily available a few KM away on the other side of the border? Oil companies aren't going to spend billions on refineries just so you can legislate them into selling their products at less than market value.

[whowhere]

And if pigs had wings, they could fly. What part of Canada not having enough of these capabilities (capitalization, refining, and distribution) do you not understand? Canada even imports blood.

If we don't have enough refining its time Canada does something about that. The problem with Canada its been hallowed out. Most companies are foreign companies interested in pillaging and plundering Canada for their own gain, whatever that is. These companies are not for Canada over the long term and these companies put profits before people. Canadian politicians pander to their own interests. It's time these dumb ass politician find ways to prop up Canadian innovation to take control of Canada's energy resources. Companies who put the interests of Canada first.

It is obvious where gas consumption and prices is going. The fact is, Canada has the oil to address its own needs. At the moment other than tax revenues what benefit is Canada getting from its own oil, Zippo.

[whowhere]

Canada and the US are big countries. What is the point of transporting something 3000 KM across one of them when it may be readily readily available a few KM away on the other side of the border? Oil companies aren't going to spend billions on refineries just so you can legislate them into selling their products at less than market value.

Well, the premise of this thread is to enact the same law as the United States. A law which states all oil produced in the US must be made available to the US for Use. The logistics on how to make Canada's oil available to Canada is something that would have to be investigated and addressed.

[bush_cheney2004]

If we don't have enough refining its time Canada does something about that. The problem with Canada its been hallowed out. Most companies are foreign companies interested in pillaging and plundering Canada for their own gain, whatever that is.

Oh, you mean you want to go back to the bad old days of economic collapse in Canada? Talk is cheap...others have "done something"...exactly the opposite of what you are proposing. Canadian firms and crown corps also take advantage of other nations for their "own gain"....from copper mining to oil services in Iraq.

It is obvious where gas consumption and prices is going. The fact is, Canada has the oil to address its own needs. At the moment other than tax revenues what benefit is Canada getting from its own oil, Zippo.

Methinks Albertans and Newfoundlanders would take issue with that. So fight it out between provinces like you always do.

[whowhere]

Oh, you mean you want to go back to the bad old days of economic collapse in Canada? Talk is cheap...others have "done something"...exactly the opposite of what you are proposing. Canadian firms and crown corps also take advantage of other nations for their "own gain"....from copper mining to oil services in Iraq.

Methinks Albertans and Newfoundlanders would take issue with that. So fight it out between provinces like you always do.

We already have a transcanada gas line to supply homes. It's time we have a transcanada oil line to supply refineries

[Wilber]

Well, the premise of this thread is to enact the same law as the United States. A law which states all oil produced in the US must be made available to the US for Use. The logistics on how to make Canada's oil available to Canada is something that would have to be investigated and addressed.

You going to build the pipeline to make all of Canada's oil available to all Canadians? I know, you expect someone else to do it so you can legislate them into selling the stuff to you for less than market value. So what if the US has such a law, they still pay market price wherever it comes from. It makes no sense to ship oil from Alaska to Florida, so they don't because it is more economical to buy imported oil for that market. The same reason Eastern Canada wasn't interested in building a pipeline from Alberta to Central and Eastern Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

We already have a transcanada gas line to supply homes. It's time we have a transcanada oil line to supply refineries

Transcanada Pipelines, Ltd. own or have partial interest in 59,000 km of natural gas pipeline in Canada and the United States.

Imagine that.

[M.Dancer]

I believe we have a moron here.

Self actualization and self study are key to living and being a whole person. Congratulations on step one.

[August1991]

We already have a transcanada gas line to supply homes. It's time we have a transcanada oil line to supply refineries

Huh? Supply homes?

whowhere, when you'll agree to come over to my home to wash dishes and pass the vacuum cleaner for $1.50/hour, then I'll agree to your idea that Albertans should be forced to sell you oil at $45/barrel.

Then again, as a troll, I don't know if I want to let you in this forum - let alone my home.

Edited July 20, 2008 by August1991

[whowhere]

Transcanada Pipelines, Ltd. own or have partial interest in 59,000 km of natural gas pipeline in Canada and the United States.

Imagine that.

So, Transcanada Pipelines branched out into the US. They likely got involved with the US through the whole Enron debacle. What is actually odd, is before enron, hydro rates didn't get all that much attention. More amazingly hydro does not seem that big of a concern anymore. The point is, Enron wreaked havoc on the volatility of hydro rates. I suspect the same operators from the Enron days are involved in oil prices. Same games

According to all the reports, Canada has the second largerst reserves in extractable oil. If that's the case, building the pipelines, and refineries to deal with this oil makes sense. Our politicians whine and cry about the sovereinty of Canada, here is their chance to take a stand and do something for Canada.

Money to finance the construction of a pipeline and refineries can be found through Canada's banking system. If there is one thing Canada has, is strong Canadian banks.

[bush_cheney2004]

So, Transcanada Pipelines branched out into the US. They likely got involved with the US through the whole Enron debacle. What is actually odd, is before enron, hydro rates didn't get all that much attention. More amazingly hydro does not seem that big of a concern anymore. The point is, Enron wreaked havoc on the volatility of hydro rates. I suspect the same operators from the Enron days are involved in oil prices. Same games

Nonsense.....the pipeline partnerships pre-date "Enron" by many years. The point was Canadian ownership of American pipeline infrastructure, and that extends to railroads as well. Should the Americans "nationalize" all of this too?

According to all the reports, Canada has the second largerst reserves in extractable oil. If that's the case, building the pipelines, and refineries to deal with this oil makes sense. Our politicians whine and cry about the sovereinty of Canada, here is their chance to take a stand and do something for Canada.

Didn't and doesn't mean dick without foreign capital and markets for sale of the "extractable oil".

Money to finance the construction of a pipeline and refineries can be found through Canada's banking system. If there is one thing Canada has, is strong Canadian banks.

Sure...but not now. Banks like CIBC are in no position to take on any more risk.

[M.Dancer]

So, Transcanada Pipelines branched out into the US. They likely got involved with the US through the whole Enron debacle.

I love a poster who doesn't let ignorance stand in the way of maiking himself sound stupid.

[whowhere]

Huh? Supply homes?

whowhere, when you'll agree to come over to my home to wash dishes and pass the vacuum cleaner for $1.50/hour, then I'll agree to your idea that Albertans should be forced to sell you oil at $45/barrel.

Then again, as a troll, I don't know if I want to let you in this forum - let alone my home.

You are so funny, calling me a troll just because you don't agree with regulations to stabalize the price of oil to Canada. Most homes can be hooked up to natural gas. How did that happen? I am sure in your mind, magic. smoke another one. All I am saying is follow what was done in creating the natural gas pipeline, construct oil pipeline across Canada to serve refineries that will deal with Canada's petroleum demands. What a concept! become independent of US influence on our oil and gas prices.

Whether Canada gets oil for $45 or $100 it requires the infrastructure to process its own oil. Shipping oil to the United States for refining and then having this same oil refined and shipped back to Canada in gasoline makes no sense. Canada needs to take a leadership role and develop its energy infrastructure.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Whether Canada gets oil for $45 or $100 it requires the infrastructure to process its own oil. Shipping oil to the United States for refining and then having this same oil refined and shipped back to Canada in gasoline makes no sense. Canada needs to take a leadership role and develop its energy infrastructure.

Then stop whining and do it...convince provincial governments and investors that all these years they were wrong but now you have the right answer, mostly because you don't like paying 1.40 per liter....LOL!

It would be cheaper just to give you free gas.

[whowhere]

It would be cheaper just to give you free gas.

Just let me know where to get my gas.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just let me know where to get my gas.

Detroit or Buffalo.

[August1991]

You are so funny, calling me a troll just because you don't agree with regulations to stabalize the price of oil to Canada.

Troll? "Stabalize" the price of oil? House cleaning aside.

It just seems to me that if, according to you, capitalist Albertans should sell oil to other Canadians at $45 per barrel, then capitalist Ontarians should sell Blackberrys to other Canadians at $10 each too.

We're all in this together, no? Shouldn't we help each other out?

[Oleg Bach]

Troll? "Stabalize" the price of oil? House cleaning aside.

It just seems to me that if, according to you, capitalist Albertans should sell oil to other Canadians at $45 per barrel, then capitalist Ontarians should sell Blackberrys to other Canadians at $10 each too.

We're all in this together, no? Shouldn't we help each other out?

I don't get it about energy - diesel has the octane power of frinking butter...where as gas has the octane exposive power of ...well gas...and to see diesel on par and surpassing the price of gas shows clearly that this whole thing is a fraud...How can one compare the energy value of a wet newspaper to a an arm full of seasoned maple fire wood? That's my point..this is a wicked and greed filled gouging of the poor consumer.Those speculating on energy should be picked up and jailed...why should they be allowed to steal from millions of desperate people? It is crimminal.