Text Messaging

[madmax]

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/353029

Industry Minister Jim Prentice announced Wednesday that he has summoned the heads of Bell Mobility and Telus Mobility to Ottawa to explain their "ill-thought" decision......The New Democrats have launched a petition against the text message cash grab at www.ndp.ca.

The petition had attracted more than 16,000 signatures by late yesterday.

A consumer revolt not seen since Rogers Negative Billing. While we have been carbon this and carbon that, numerous mainstream pages (Politics ain't mainstream) have been running wild on this topic.

I heard about this a few days back, and thought it was just another news item and a bad company decision.

My guess is that with this kind of heat, (and Rogers waiting to scoop up the disgruntled consumer), that Bell and Telus are going to turn tail.

[M.Dancer]

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/353029

A consumer revolt not seen since Rogers Negative Billing. While we have been carbon this and carbon that, numerous mainstream pages (Politics ain't mainstream) have been running wild on this topic.

I heard about this a few days back, and thought it was just another news item and a bad company decision.

My guess is that with this kind of heat, (and Rogers waiting to scoop up the disgruntled consumer), that Bell and Telus are going to turn tail.

I have never text messaged in my life but my friend's daughter, when she first got her first cell phone managed to rack up a 3 hundred dollar bill in one month. All she did was text OMG, LMAO, BFF, etc etc with her friends....

[blueblood]

All the more reason to open up Canada to foreign mobility providers. If these Canadian companies want to conduct shotty business due to protection from the CRTC then it is time for a change. I would welcome American companies, maybe we could get better reception up and better service up north.

[geoffrey]

Hopefully the wireless auction will open the market to a few new providers. We desperately need competition.

I pay less for data use in the US on my Blackberry than I do in Canada, even though I'm on a Canadian plan. Just think about that for a second. Does it make sense? Evidence of a real lack of competition up here.

Edited July 12, 2008 by geoffrey

[cybercoma]

If the average person is having a hard time with this take a second to imagine how my wife feels. She's a sign language interpreter and receives numerous incoming messages from Deaf people. They can't use their phones to voice dial her, but she's expected to pay $0.15 everytime a Deaf person messages her?

Telus's answer is that she get an unlimited text messaging package at an additional cost of $15/month plus taxes.

Edited July 12, 2008 by cybercoma

[bk59]

Canadians are definitely getting screwed by the cell phone companies up here. The "system access fee" is a great example. On top of paying the regular bill to access the system, we then have the privilege of paying an extra fee.

This text messaging plan was a particularly bad idea. Since when do consumers have to pay for something that someone else does? If they really are losing money (which let's face it, they aren't), then charge more for sending a text, not receiving one.

[Riverwind]

The cell phone market is rigged in Canada because the industry is allowed to force customers into long term contracts and because it refuses to allow consumers to use phones that were not purchased from them even if there is no technical reason for the restriction.

The government should level the playing field for consumers by:

1) Require companies to offer all their services with pay as you go plans.

2) Require companies to accept phones that are not purchased from them provided.

Once this is done Bell/Telus would not be able to introduce fees without risking a mass exodus to Rogers. As it stands today they can do so with impunity because most of their customers are locked in because of their contracts or phones.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Riverwind

[August1991]

The cell phone market is rigged in Canada because the industry is allowed to force customers into long term contracts and because it refuses to allow consumers to use phones that were not purchased from them even if there is no technical reason for the restriction.

The government should level the playing field for consumers by:

1) Require companies to offer all their services with pay as you go plans.

2) Require companies to accept phones that are not purchased from them provided.

Once this is done Bell/Telus would not be able to introduce fees without risking a mass exodus to Rogers. As it stands today they can do so with impunity because most of their customers are locked in because of their contracts or phones.

Since government regulation/restrictictions are the source of the problem, I fail to see how further government regulation/restrictions on the freedom to contract will somehow correct this problem.

We have in Canada a well-organized cartel of three cell phone companies that have indulged in regulatory capture.

The only way to solve this problem would be to open the Canadian market to foreign cell phone services. For political reasons, different federal political parties are afraid to do this. The cost of this political choice is higher cell phone bills.

A similar situation exists in Canada's air transport industry.

Hopefully the wireless auction will open the market to a few new providers. We desperately need competition.

Let's hope.

----

I have a suspicion that many voters don't fly or don't use cell phones. These voters don't see the direct cost of their nationalistic choice.

Edited July 12, 2008 by August1991

[Argus]

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/353029

A consumer revolt not seen since Rogers Negative Billing. While we have been carbon this and carbon that, numerous mainstream pages (Politics ain't mainstream) have been running wild on this topic.

I heard about this a few days back, and thought it was just another news item and a bad company decision.

My guess is that with this kind of heat, (and Rogers waiting to scoop up the disgruntled consumer), that Bell and Telus are going to turn tail.

All this demonstrates that conservatives are correct in saying that market forces are the best way to control unreasonable prices. Only the fact the government protects these three from real market forces allows them to get away with their overpriced services. I'm all for opening up the Canadian market to outside service providers. If that means the end of Bell and Telus, then sayonara. I'm as patriotic as the next guy but I won't protect inefficient Canadian businesses that screw the consumer at every opportunity.

[GostHacked]

Not only that, you get locked into phone contracts that last longer than many marriages .... that is a problem.

The customer .. not consumer .. stop thinking of yourself as a consumer and start thinking as a customer ... Companies do not want customers, they want consumers who will consume the product and say 'I hate it', but won't do anything about it.

I work for Loblaws, we recently switched all our cell phones (company wide .. big company) from Bell to Rogers .....In my job at Loblaws.. I get alerts all the time through messeging on my cell phone about certain systems that are down. I can get 10 to 15 of these a day. Multiply that by ... I really have no clue, but there are 10 of us in our warehouse alone that have company cell phones. The money that will be saved on texting these alerts will be noticable. Over 500 people are using cell phones down at PC Circle. That racks up much.

The customer is getting nickel and dimed to death today. Gas/fuel going up, causing everythuing else to go up. And we pay little 'fees' for anything extra we want right now. All microtransactions, and all of them add up to large cash.

Also with people being so dependant on cell phones (I have been running with a cell phone exclusively for the past 4 years without a landline. But I am smart about it . My personal phone is a pay as I go ... when that happens, you really take a look at your phone usage and say .. where can I save money'.

It is easier to call, leave a voice mail. Cheaper too. I know it's not always the case to check your voice messages, so there is really no time to check text messages if that was the case.

Edit for this extra bit

If you really want to axe the possible costs of incomming texts .. call your provider up and tell them to disable it and take if off your plan. If you tell them specifially that you do not want the text messaging option (disable it completely) then they cannot charge you for a service you no longer have bound to your account. Money talks, also the lack of money talks as well.

Edited July 12, 2008 by GostHacked

[August1991]

Not only that, you get locked into phone contracts that last longer than many marriages .... that is a problem.

Locked into a contract? Did someone put a shotgun to your head?

In hindsight, don't blame the government for your bad choice. OTOH, you can blame the government for restricting your choice.

====

IMV, the definition of poverty is a lack of choices. Rich people have many choices. Poor people have fewer choices.

Edited July 12, 2008 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

Locked into a contract? Did someone put a shotgun to your head?

Nope......

Information about Prepaid available at:

Bell Mobility Solo:

http://www.solomobile.ca/

Fido Prepaid Service:

http://www.fido.ca/

Rogers Pay-as-you-go:

http://www.shoprogers.com/

Telus Mobility Pay & Talk:

http://www.telusmobility.com/

In hindsight, don't blame the government for your bad choice. OTOH, you can blame the government for restricting your choice.

Gee, that's just what my father would say too!

[Riverwind]

Locked into a contract? Did someone put a shotgun to your head?

Ah. Not quite But if I wanted a cellphone has to choose one. There are now choices as competition from outfits like Virgin and Koodo, however, these outfits still insist I but a new phone from them.

There will never be true competition in places like Canada in areas where a large physical infrastructure is required to provide service. Opening up the market to foreign competition won't likely result in new infrastructure being built - it would simply result in the existing oligopoly being replaced by one consisting of large foreign firms. Consumers would still end up getting screwed without adequate government regulation no matter what. I think more could be accomplished if the government simply removed the barriers that prevent consumers from switching carriers.

The government has already forced the providers to offer cellphone number portability - forcing them to allow cell phone device portability is the logical next step.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Riverwind

[Riverwind]

Information about Prepaid available at:

Still have to buy the phone from a specific provider - I want the option of buying a phone and using on the network that gives the best deal at any given time. That will not happen unless the government demands it with regulation. Edited July 12, 2008 by Riverwind

[August1991]

There will never be true competition in places like Canada in areas where a large physical infrastructure is required to provide service.

I disagree.

Most of the Canadian market is in small, concentrated local markets. European or American providers have the ability and technology to provide new networks.

Canada is exceptional because two of the big three (Bell, Telus) have extensive landline interests. They play their cell network against their landlines. All three are creatures/creations of government.

-----

As to your choice of cellphone, buy an unlocked GSM phone. At least you'll be able to use it abroad and enjoy low prices there.

[bush_cheney2004]

Still have to buy the phone from a specific provider - I want the option of buying a phone and using on the network that gives the best deal at any given time. That will not happen unless the government demands it with regulation.

True, you have to buy a phone from somebody, even if it's from eBay. Lots of other choices too:

http://www.puremobile.ca/

[Riverwind]

Most of the Canadian market is in small, concentrated local markets. European or American providers have the ability and technology to provide new networks.

Providing a network is not simply a matter of technology and capital - it requires access to suitable physical sites which are a limited resource and subject to numerous restrictions by local governments. I do not believe that more competition will help with that problem at all. If it does it will only help people living in large centers. Foreign firms would just buy out the existing players and leave us with nothing more than we have now.

As to your choice of cellphone, buy an unlocked GSM phone. At least you'll be able to use it abroad and enjoy low prices there.

Last time I checked I am not allowed to use unlocked phones on the Canadian networks - that is the problem I would to see solved. Edited July 12, 2008 by Riverwind

[August1991]

Foreign firms would just buy out the existing players and leave us with nothing more than we have now.

The standard argument of all so-called "protectors": without me, you won't survive.

Why would foreign firms be any worse than what we have now? Riverwind, do you really believe that government bureaucrats in Ottawa make small towns in western Canada good places to live? Do they even know about these places?

If Canada is a good country, it is not because of Canadian governments or Canadian government bureaucrats.

Last time I checked I am not allowed to use unlocked phones on the Canadian networks - that is the problem I would to see solved.

News to me.

I took my quad-band Motorola to a Bell shop in the Laval mall and they put in a SIM card to check it out. I thought the price too hefty so I decided to walk to a different kiosk in the mall. The Rogers guys were friendly and ensured my phone worked with their SIM card. In Canada, I'm with Rogers.

Riverwind, do you mean that the people in these shops and I engaged in illegal activities?

PS. I prefer quad band because it works in Europe too. With the same Motorola, I'm getting basically unlimited phone/text for about 20$/month in Moscow - after changing once again the SIM card.

Edited July 12, 2008 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

...Riverwind, do you mean that the people in these shops and I engaged in illegal activities?

PS. I prefer quad band because it works in Europe too. With the same Motorola, I'm getting basically unlimited phone/text for about 20$/month in Moscow - after changing once again the SIM card.

Ha! I'm sure some of them do....probably cousins of the former satellite - cable box mafioso.

You need to know what the technology can do and where it can do it. Have SIMs...will travel.

(I run an HTC Wizard quad band with unlimited data for $39 per month, mostly as a PC modem....delightful)

Edited July 12, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

I really have nothing good to add to this other than, I agree with August. The worst that could happen with opening up the market is that we get more variety at the same outrageous prices. The companies may see what Canadians are willing to put up with and come into the market at the same rates.

[M.Dancer]

The cell phone market is rigged in Canada because the industry is allowed to force customers into long term contracts and because it refuses to allow consumers to use phones that were not purchased from them even if there is no technical reason for the restriction.

That last part can't be true.

I use a pay as you go card on a second hand phone. I sometimes make up to one call a day...

[Riverwind]

I use a pay as you go card on a second hand phone. I sometimes make up to one call a day...

I just called around. It appears that CDMA network providers make you buy their phone but GSM providers will sell the SIMs seperately.

[M.Dancer]

I just called around. It appears that CDMA network providers make you buy their phone but GSM providers will sell the SIMs seperately.

I don't want to sound stupid....but I have no idea what any of that means.

I have a second hand Motorola...cost $56 tax included to hook it uop with Bell. It was not bought frm Bell.

[Riverwind]

I don't want to sound stupid....but I have no idea what any of that means.

It means you are right and I was wrong.

[August1991]

I don't want to sound stupid....but I have no idea what any of that means.

Morris, I happen to know what that means and I also happen to think that you're smarter because you don't know.

Trust me.