Susan Atkins

[DogOnPorch]

Apparently former Manson Family member Susan Atkins has terminal cancer and is going to kick the bucket. She is begging for a compassionate release. She and Patricia Krenwinkel have been locked up longer than any female prisoners in California history. Susan is apparently the model prisoner and even Vincent Bugliosi thinks she's a changed person from the murderous hippy of 1969.

If you recall the events...Susan Atkins participated in the horrrific Sharon Tate murders as well as other 'lesser murders'.

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You can stop now. I'm already dead.

---Abigail Folger

Edited June 27, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

Here's the story from ABC news.

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Whenever I get happy, I always have a terrible feeling.

---Roman Polanski

[M.Dancer]

Heh...If she's no threat and dying anyway...what matter where she dies?

[DogOnPorch]

Heh...If she's no threat and dying anyway...what matter where she dies?

That's her lawyer/husband's point as well. Somebody then pointed out that she was involved in 9 murders that we know of...that's less than 5 years per murder. It does, however, cost a lot of taxpayer (US) money to keep her in prison...especially in her condition. However, I suppose it's her famous line to Sharon Tate re: "no mercy, bitc*h" that makes folks feel less compassion for her than many other murderers. Other gruesome facts that came out in trial like her tasting Sharon Tate's blood as she died only added to the public's loathing for her.

I said: "Let her rot..." for those reasons, as well. But, it isn't my tax money holding her...

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Sometimes when someone is asking you a question, you can become Socratic and ask them a question, and have them answer their own question.

---Vincent Bugliosi

Edited June 17, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[sharkman]

Heh...If she's no threat and dying anyway...what matter where she dies?

She should have thought of that when she was doin' Sharon Tate, huh? "One day I'm going to die and if I help kill this chick it'll probably be in the pokey!". How 'bout, she shouldn't have done the crime if she didn't want to die in the big house. Or maybe she should have just said no to Charlie. The friends you pick in life can affect whether you end up staring out through bars, just like Burton Cummings song, Break it To Them Gently.

So, on a side note, is the only reason ol' Charles Manson is still alive because he mass murdered in California?

[DogOnPorch]

So, on a side note, is the only reason ol' Charles Manson is still alive because he mass murdered in California?

California got rid of its death penalty in 1972...all those on death row were given life instead. Then California brought back the death penalty, but due to a form of double jeopardy they couldn't use it on those inmates given life after its first removal. Result: they are still all alive to this day...and getting old. Charlie must be ancient by now...born in the 30s. YouTube has the various Mansonite's parole hearings from Court TV which are quite interesting at times.

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Believe me, if I started murdering people… there'd be none of you left!

---Charles Manson

[jbg]

Heh...If she's no threat and dying anyway...what matter where she dies?

If she had shown some mercy for her victims, even asked her compatriots to ease off, I'd feel she should receive "compassionate release". Wasn't her nome d' guerre "Sadie Mae Glutz", from what I recall one of the most sadistic?

I think compassionate release to people who were/are totally uncompassionate sends a bad message. Thoughts?

[capricorn]

I have read some prisons have better health care facilities than on the outside. That sucks. I say, stick her where the health care she would have access to is of lesser quality. That shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

[DogOnPorch]

jbg: I think compassionate release to people who were/are totally uncompassionate sends a bad message. Thoughts?

Agreement. Who's next? Richard Ramirez? Who want's him in their neighborhood...sick or not?

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I don't believe in the hypocritical, moralistic dogma of this so-called civilized society.

---Richard Ramirez

[Guest American Woman]

The fact that she can even ask for "compassionate release" and have it considered is why so many support the death penalty over life without parole. Life without parole can always be overturned for one reason or another, and there are some people who deserve it, and I don't see how anyone can argue that Susan Atkins doesn't fall into that category.

[DogOnPorch]

The fact that she can even ask for "compassionate release" and have it considered is why so many support the death penalty over life without parole. Life without parole can always be overturned for one reason or another, and there are some people who deserve it, and I don't see how anyone can argue that Susan Atkins doesn't fall into that category.

Sharon Tate's mother and her sisters pioneered family members attending parole hearings to give victim impact statements. They have been fighting tooth and nail to keep the Manson Family members from getting parole. Unfortunately, both the mother and Patti Tate have since died...Patti rather suddenly of cancer. But there is still one sister left who will hopefully outlive all the members locked up in prison.

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While I was working on Downward Spiral, I was living in the house where Sharon Tate was killed. Then one day I met her sister. It was a random thing, just a brief encounter. And she said: 'Are you exploiting my sister's death by living in her house?' For the first time, the whole thing kind of slapped me in the face. I said, 'No, it's just sort of my own interest in American folklore. I'm in this place where a weird part of history occurred.' I guess it never really struck me before, but it did then. She lost her sister from a senseless, ignorant situation that I don't want to support. When she was talking to me, I realized for the first time, 'What if it was my sister?' I thought, 'F**k Charlie Manson.' I went home and cried that night. It made me see there's another side to things, you know?

---Trent Reznor: Nine Inch Nails

[Guest American Woman]

....there is still one sister left who will hopefully outlive all the members locked up in prison.

I agree. But how sad that she has to spend her life fighting the release of any of them for any reason. That's the thing about the death penalty-- It's all over and the victims' families can go forward with their lives. In a horrible situation like this, they evidently couldn't/can't do that if they have to keep fighting any of the members' release. And that's just not right.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes...

. She was 10 when Sharon Tate was murdered and had apparently wanted to spend that night at Cielo Drive with her sister. Circumstances took her back to her mother's house as Sharon was feeling under the weather. Very lucky on that account!

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My whole life has been decided by fate.

---Sharon Tate

[Guest American Woman]

Yes...

. She was 10 when Sharon Tate was murdered and had apparently wanted to spend that night at Cielo Drive with her sister. Circumstances took her back to her mother's house as Sharon was feeling under the weather. Very lucky on that account!

Thanks for the information and the link-- I wasn't aware of that.

It's so wrong that continuous parole hearings consume the family of the victim's lives. It certainly diminishes the "justice" that the victim's family received.

[eyeball]

I'd let her go, it sounds like she's tried to contribute something to the world and for that she should be given some slack. The chance of rehabilitation is amongst other things, one of the goals of justice. That being the case justice should reciprocate from time to time. I think this is one of those times.

[DogOnPorch]

I'd let her go, it sounds like she's tried to contribute something to the world and for that she should be given some slack. The chance of rehabilitation is amongst other things, one of the goals of justice. That being the case justice should reciprocate from time to time. I think this is one of those times.

If you can....describe what Susan Atkins did.

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The crystal ship is being filled...a thousand girls, a thousand thrills...

---The Doors

[BubberMiley]

Forty years ago, while a teenager, while brainwashed by a charismatic cult leader.

Though I can understand the vengeful mind and personally don't care where she dies, I'm not sure there's much revenge left to get against the person who did the crime. The only reason it's an issue and she's still in jail is the high media profile of the crime.

Here in Canada we have teenagers who curb-stomp other teenagers out of jail in less than three years, so I find it difficult to have a strong opinion about the last few months of someone close to 60 who committed a terrible crime while still a teenager.

[Guest American Woman]

She wasn't a teen-ager. She was 21.

And for the record, 'justice' and 'revenge' are not synonymous. People can believe in/desire justice without any desire for revenge.

[DogOnPorch]

Forty years ago, while a teenager, while brainwashed by a charismatic cult leader.

Though I can understand the vengeful mind and personally don't care where she dies, I'm not sure there's much revenge left to get against the person who did the crime. The only reason it's an issue and she's still in jail is the high media profile of the crime.

Here in Canada we have teenagers who curb-stomp other teenagers out of jail in less than three years, so I find it difficult to have a strong opinion about the last few months of someone close to 60 who committed a terrible crime while still a teenager.

I suppose yours and eyeball's opinions would be what the Tate family were fighting against. Remember, these people were sentanced to death. Sentanced for seriously f**ked up murders with little in the way of motive except Charles Manson's desire for a global race war. Fate allowed them to live...not sure if that really entitles them to parole...but here we are talking about it.

Charles Manson is unlikely to get out in any case, but there's some serious doubt re: Leslie Van Houten, 'Tex' Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel. They could get out...especially if they have parole boards comprised of folks similar to you and eyeball. But, maybe I'm being too harsh in regards to your posts. My apologies if so. However, other less high profile Manson members have been paroled in the past, including Steve 'Clem' Grogan, one of the Family's 'executioners'. It can happen.

I should also point out that although these crimes are almost 40 years old, they're still searching for bodies. Just last month (May 2008) investigators

looking for several missing bodies using high tech sonar gear.

Those 'hippy days' were a heartbeat ago in terms of time.

Using Canadian style light sentances as an example of what happens to murderers perhaps isn't a fair comparison. We need to get serious about fighting major crime in Canada...but that's another thread. Fair points, though, BubberMiley in terms of how we view these things as the general public.

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So for you people who are filled with fear that I might someday be released: breathe easy, I don't see it happening.

---Charles Manson

[WIP]

I finally got around to watching the video clip and I voted to let her go! People do change over time. I'm not sure what her level of complicity was when she was a participant in the Manson Family murders back in 69 when she was a brainwashed cult-member, but she has not been a danger to anyone during the almost 40 years of incarceration. If she was still a danger, she would behave like Charles Manson, who still has to be kept in solitary. There is no profit to anyone in making her die in prison!

[jbg]

There is no profit to anyone in making her die in prison!

The people who argue against the death penalty suggest life without parole as the option. This looks rather meaningless if prisoners in fact are released from such a sentence.

[eyeball]

The people who argue against the death penalty suggest life without parole as the option. This looks rather meaningless if prisoners in fact are released from such a sentence.

Some people argue this way but not all.

[guyser]

The people who argue against the death penalty suggest life without parole as the option. This looks rather meaningless if prisoners in fact are released from such a sentence.

I have to agree with that.

Release should not be an option. However, based on her good behaviour some considerations for her last days could and should be accommodated.

Give her and her family one of those conjugal trailers for instance.

[WIP]

The people who argue against the death penalty suggest life without parole as the option. This looks rather meaningless if prisoners in fact are released from such a sentence.

I might have agreed with you if it wasn't for the fact that she is already facing the death penalty! Within the next 12 months, her doctors expect her to die from inoperable brain cancer or other complications of the disease! Her health is likely already in decline and will worsen as the disease progresses; it's not like she' going to go off to live it up in the nightclubs and out on the golfcourse like O.J. Simpson! So who gains by keeping her in prison at this stage of her life? Is every crime issue only about vengeance and retribution to religious conservatives?

[guyser]

I might have agreed with you if it wasn't for the fact that she is already facing the death penalty! Within the next 12 months, her doctors expect her to die from inoperable brain cancer or other complications of the disease! Her health is likely already in decline and will worsen as the disease progresses; it's not like she' going to go off to live it up in the nightclubs and out on the golfcourse like O.J. Simpson! So who gains by keeping her in prison at this stage of her life? Is every crime issue only about vengeance and retribution to religious conservatives?

Wait a sec.

She was sentenced to life in prison. Therefore she was sentence to be incarcerated until she died in prison, whether by natural life span or by illness. She needs to serve that out. As I said earlier, make accommodations like those conjugal houses but dont let her out .

Her victims sure didnt get a last chance to smell the roses, neither should she.

(i sure as hell am no religious conservative)