General Motors closing truck plant

[madmax]

The injunction was successful.

But GM has some splainning to do.... (I picked this up off another site, but thought some of the posters here might not be aware of this ruling.)

Mr. Justice David Salmers granted an injunction yesterday ordering the union to end a blockade of the company's Canadian head office and limit its pickets to 20 people, but said the auto maker "should not be rewarded for improper conduct." ...

"Knowing the dire straits of the truck market, for some time before June 1, 2008, these sophisticated business people would have considered the possibility that the Oshawa truck plant might have to be closed," he wrote. ...

Two clauses in the new contract between the two parties called for the company to give notice to the union and have discussions before making major changes in production at any of GM's Canadian plants.

The judge found that GM ignored those clauses.

"I find that GM Corp. engaged in almost deceitful business practice by allowing GM Canada's lead negotiators to agree to the advance notice and discussion clauses in the May 15, 2008, agreement at a time when the truck business was in dire straits and when GM Corp. should have been at least aware of the possibility that plants, possibly including the Oshawa truck plant, might have to be closed," he wrote

Ouch.

[bush_cheney2004]

The injunction was successful.

But GM has some splainning to do.... (I picked this up off another site, but thought some of the posters here might not be aware of this ruling.)

But GM did give notice...yes? The CAW has until Sep 2009, per the contract. That GM's decision would have or should have been known prior to contract negotiations is obvious, but not illegal.

[madmax]

..should have been known prior to contract negotiations is obvious, but not illegal.

It is suprising that a judge ruling on an injuction made those comments.

As far as I know, you are correct.

[M.Dancer]

But they aren't imports anymore, for the most part. GM, Ford and Chrysler are international corporations.....nostalgic models of the "Big Three" don't apply anymore. Japanese and Korean manufaturers are prospering in North American plants, often without unionized labor.

Fine...other consumers get to make their own choices as well, and did so in Canada for 2007:

The Top 10 Best-selling 'light trucks' in Canada

From January 1 to December 31, 2007

Rank / Model (Last year's position) / Total sales

1- Ford F-Series (1) 73,618

2- Dodge Caravan (2) 55,041

3- Dodge Ram (3) 42,322

4- GMC Sierra (4) 40,606

5- Chevrolet Silverado (5) 40,066

6- Ford Escape (6) 31,643

7- Ford Ranger (10) 23,386

8- Honda CR-V (9) 20,980

9- Pontiac Montana SV6 (8) 19,169

10- Chevrolet Uplander (7) 18,999

That's an odd list. While the Ford f-series, Ranger, Sierra, Silverados, Rams, are certainly pick up trucks, The Honda CR-V, Uplander, Caravan and Montana are SUVs or minivans

[Topaz]

But GM did give notice...yes? The CAW has until Sep 2009, per the contract. That GM's decision would have or should have been known prior to contract negotiations is obvious, but not illegal.

The contract said to give notice, which they did, BUT GM was to have DISCUSSIONS BEFORE making MAJOR changes in production. They didn't do that with the CAW and that's what the CAW is talking about. Since its a year before it closes, GM sales could change and sales of trucks could increase and by pulling out of Canada, they are losing a good quality product vs mexican junk.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's an odd list. While the Ford f-series, Ranger, Sierra, Silverados, Rams, are certainly pick up trucks, The Honda CR-V, Uplander, Caravan and Montana are SUVs or minivans

My guess is that for market purposes, all are considered to be "light trucks". Years ago, tricks were played with seats and chassis to avoid import duty when manufactured overseas, but now with domestic NA plants, that isn't necessary. The CAFE gas mileage game is still played, so the passenger car vs. light truck game still matters, and is one of the reasons GM built big honking and very profitable light trucks for so long.

CAFE sets an average miles-per-gallon minimum for firms selling passenger vehicles in the U.S. There are different standards for the two classes of vehicles, cars and light trucks, and the standards are applied separately to two sources of vehicles, domestically produced and imported. That is, a company that sells both domestic and imported vehicles must meet the standard for both fleets separately.

Cars are, well, cars. A light truck is defined by CAFE as any four-wheel vehicle that is not a car and that weighs less than eighty-five hundred pounds. The distinction between cars and light trucks seems to be somewhat arbitrary, but the category of light trucks includes most vans, minivans, pickup trucks, and sport-utility vehicles. - Cato Institute

[bush_cheney2004]

The contract said to give notice, which they did, BUT GM was to have DISCUSSIONS BEFORE making MAJOR changes in production. They didn't do that with the CAW and that's what the CAW is talking about. Since its a year before it closes, GM sales could change and sales of trucks could increase and by pulling out of Canada, they are losing a good quality product vs mexican junk.

Now now Topaz....mustn't be hatin' on the Mexicans like that....it's not very Canadian. LOL!

The highest quality product is worthless if it can't be sold. Besides, the CAW reached a tipping point long ago and is not going to get any sympathy from a GM that has already slashed tens of thousands of employees worldwide. The party is over....and the sooner Ontario adapts the better.

Sure..go ahead and pay 'em whatever the judge wants, but the larger outcome is already decided.

[Topaz]

Now now Topaz....mustn't be hatin' on the Mexicans like that....it's not very Canadian. LOL!

The highest quality product is worthless if it can't be sold. Besides, the CAW reached a tipping point long ago and is not going to get any sympathy from a GM that has already slashed tens of thousands of employees worldwide. The party is over....and the sooner Ontario adapts the better.

Sure..go ahead and pay 'em whatever the judge wants, but the larger outcome is already decided.

So now I hear on the news at noon, Buzz gets a call from Ford saying if GM pulls out and doesn' t honour the contract, Ford isn't either. I suppose Chrysler is next and so all the big 3 pull out of Canada and go to mexico! So it all comes down to money and when the autos produced in Mexico are junk and if / when someone sues because of safety hazard, then the Big 3 will realize they made a mistake.

[bush_cheney2004]

So now I hear on the news at noon, Buzz gets a call from Ford saying if GM pulls out and doesn' t honour the contract, Ford isn't either. I suppose Chrysler is next and so all the big 3 pull out of Canada and go to mexico! So it all comes down to money and when the autos produced in Mexico are junk and if / when someone sues because of safety hazard, then the Big 3 will realize they made a mistake.

That's a sweet thought...you are never mean spirited except to Mexicans! But as you have indicated in a pretzel like fashion, if the UAW/CAW could leverage contract negotiations against all "Big 3" automakers in good times, it stands to reason that they will experience the same treatment on the way down.

I have experienced high quality from the US, Mexican, and Canadian manufacturers...also some junk. Last year it took me six RMA's to get two correctly machined brake drums (sourced from Magna).

If Mexico ever gets it act together, it has a lot more upside market potential than Canada!

[Oleg Bach]

That's a sweet thought...you are never mean spirited except to Mexicans! But as you have indicated in a pretzel like fashion, if the UAW/CAW could leverage contract negotiations against all "Big 3" automakers in good times, it stands to reason that they will experience the same treatment on the way down.

I have experienced high quality from the US, Mexican, and Canadian manufacturers...also some junk. Last year it took me six RMA's to get two correctly machined brake drums (sourced from Magna).

If Mexico ever gets it act together, it has a lot more upside market potential than Canada!

The "Union" should demand the arrest of the guys that sold out the workers by shipping off jobs to Japan and now to China...but that is not going to happen seeing that union bosses are wanna be internationalist CEOs that have no loyalty to citizen and nation.

[Keepitsimple]

To the best of my knowledge, the media have not made a big deal out of Buzz "negotiating" his contract three months before he had to. Now I know this might be cynical but do you think he saw the writing on the wall? Do you think instead of bargaining for more wages and benefits, he tried to pull a fast one and lock GM into an agreement to make trucks that nobody's buying? No, not good old Buzz - never.

[Oleg Bach]

To the best of my knowledge, the media have not made a big deal out of Buzz "negotiating" his contract three months before he had to. Now I know this might be cynical but do you think he saw the writing on the wall? Do you think instead of bargaining for more wages and benefits, he tried to pull a fast one and lock GM into an agreement to make trucks that nobody's buying? No, not good old Buzz - never.

Buzz knows the industry has collapsed...and he also knows that without industry there is no union and thus no union boss is needed...so Buzz was probably doing a little job creation on his own behalf...who said unionist and their leaders are saints?

[Topaz]

That's a sweet thought...you are never mean spirited except to Mexicans! But as you have indicated in a pretzel like fashion, if the UAW/CAW could leverage contract negotiations against all "Big 3" automakers in good times, it stands to reason that they will experience the same treatment on the way down.

I have experienced high quality from the US, Mexican, and Canadian manufacturers...also some junk. Last year it took me six RMA's to get two correctly machined brake drums (sourced from Magna).

If Mexico ever gets it act together, it has a lot more upside market potential than Canada!

I don't hate Mexicans, I feel sorry for them and the leaders of their country only care about themselves and selling drugs. One factory down there is suppose turnout 150 units a day, at least that what can be done in Canadian factory. Mexicans can only make 30 units a day and their office workers NEED alot of education especially on the computer part. Just look at the human rights down there, there isn't any! I read that a few years ago Volkswagen plant near Mexico City they workers tried to strike and guess what happen the army shot at the strikers and kill some of them. Fox, the former president said the leaders of exports are going to be the US, China, Mexico and the Canada. If Canada lacks behind its because the Feds don't care or they don't know what to do.

[Bryan]

So it all comes down to money and when the autos produced in Mexico are junk and if / when someone sues because of safety hazard

Which Mexican-built cars are junk?

[madmax]

Which Mexican-built cars are junk?

Only the ones made by VW Mexico

[geoffrey]

Good that GM finally sees that trucks aren't going to be that hot anymore.

Too bad people are out of jobs, happens everyday. Just because they are union employees that aren't worth 1/2 their pay in the real world doesn't mean we need to sob for them.

Maybe they can work for a reasonable rate for low, nearly unskilled labour and not put their next employer on the verge of downfall.

[Topaz]

Today, GM says it will raise the price of auto 3% or about $1000.00 to the 2009 models saying its because of steel prices. One can't blame the CAW for this one and with changes to their contracts and lower wages, you'll be hearing more about the high cost of steel everytime GM wants ti increase prices.

[madmax]

Today, GM says it will raise the price of auto 3% or about $1000.00 to the 2009 models saying its because of steel prices. One can't blame the CAW for this one and with changes to their contracts and lower wages, you'll be hearing more about the high cost of steel everytime GM wants ti increase prices.

The Last Manufacturing pLant I was associated with.

Steel 40%

Energy 38%

Labour 7%

Steel Costs rose rapidly from 2005. Energy Costs started going through the roof and purchasing through various private suppliers proved fruitless in the end. All those years of stable pricing made it feel like they were fixed costs.

Labour costs haven't been cited as the reason for closing in the many plant closures I am involved with.

The rising dollar is often cited.

[AngusThermopyle]

Steel Costs rose rapidly from 2005.

This is true. The problem is even more acute now, the price of steel is going through the roof. When we source steel for a new building we can only get quotes valid for seven days now, because the cost is rising so swiftly. We heard that suppliers are going to start limiting quotes to three days now since the price is spiraling upward at such a rapid pace. The predictions are that within the near future steel will have doubled in cost.

[madmax]

Maybe they can work for a reasonable rate for low, nearly unskilled labour and not put their next employer on the verge of downfall.

The employees have not put their employer on the verge of downfall. The employees have made that operation one of the most productive and efficient in North America.

The Employer is simply choosing to relocate their operation to another facility. If GM is on the "verge of downfall" it will be GMs own doing.

[GostHacked]

The "Union" should demand the arrest of the guys that sold out the workers by shipping off jobs to Japan and now to China...but that is not going to happen seeing that union bosses are wanna be internationalist CEOs that have no loyalty to citizen and nation.

Once any union contract is up, the company can close the plant and be done with it. There is no selling anyone down the river. There won't be any legal reprocussions either.

Topaz

Today, GM says it will raise the price of auto 3% or about $1000.00 to the 2009 models saying its because of steel prices. One can't blame the CAW for this one and with changes to their contracts and lower wages, you'll be hearing more about the high cost of steel everytime GM wants ti increase prices.

The rising cost of fuel makes everything else more costly as well. You need fuel to produce things, and when that goes up, the unit cost goes up as well. The rising fuel prices have seriously impacted how we do business where I work. All our stuff arrives and is delivered by truck. Because of that food prices have increased to offset this cost. Overall the profit margin is shrinking because of it.

Not to mention since the US greenback is in the shape it is in, the CND is on par with the greenback. My last job in a call center was supporting a contract from Time Warner in the US. Time Warner no longer deals with this company in Canada. They deal with the same company, but now in Puerto Rico.

[M.Dancer]

Not to mention since the US greenback is in the shape it is in, the CND is on par with the greenback. My last job in a call center was supporting a contract from Time Warner in the US. Time Warner no longer deals with this company in Canada. They deal with the same company, but now in Puerto Rico.

1) Your company has a branch in Peurto Rico?

2) The US dollar is at par in Canada, and in PR.

3) You sell subs?

[Topaz]

I guess if you think about manufacturing comes down to the $$$$$. The shareholders demand good returns for their investments, and part of the investors are the CEO`s of the companies plus the politicans through North America that make the laws. It will take Mexico a long time to even get close to what the quality is like in Canada in the manufacturing sector and I still get the same negative reaction from people about buying a product from Mexico.

[bush_cheney2004]

I guess if you think about manufacturing comes down to the $$$$$. The shareholders demand good returns for their investments, and part of the investors are the CEO`s of the companies plus the politicans through North America that make the laws. It will take Mexico a long time to even get close to what the quality is like in Canada in the manufacturing sector and I still get the same negative reaction from people about buying a product from Mexico.

UH oh...hatin' on the Mexicans again? If they can do it for less cost...then they will.

Mexico ready to eclipse Canada as continent's No. 2 auto maker

Mexico is riding a boom in small-car sales that has put the nation's vehicle production on track to pass Canada for the first time and become the second-largest vehicle manufacturer in North America this year.

....Now, based on five months of production data, auto industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers estimates auto makers in Mexico are on target to crank out 2.26 million vehicles in 2008, while production in Canada is on pace to plunge 19 per cent to 2.09 million vehicles, its lowest level since 1992. In the U.S., output is falling even faster, with the Big Three companies in Detroit in the middle of their weakest production in 47 years.

[Topaz]

UH oh...hatin' on the Mexicans again? If they can do it for less cost...then they will.

Mexico ready to eclipse Canada as continent's No. 2 auto maker

Mexico is riding a boom in small-car sales that has put the nation's vehicle production on track to pass Canada for the first time and become the second-largest vehicle manufacturer in North America this year.

....Now, based on five months of production data, auto industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers estimates auto makers in Mexico are on target to crank out 2.26 million vehicles in 2008, while production in Canada is on pace to plunge 19 per cent to 2.09 million vehicles, its lowest level since 1992. In the U.S., output is falling even faster, with the Big Three companies in Detroit in the middle of their weakest production in 47 years.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but Mexico can make all the autos it wants and if the quality isn't there then no one will buy. Can they make a better auto than Honda or Toyota? I don't think so. Right now the only thing Mexico is good at is exporting are their people and drugs!