At Last Lebanon Muslims Find a New Target - Each Other

[jbg]

The Muslims and the Christians, and the Muslims and Israelis have been at each other's throats calamitously for many years. Now, the violence, now Muslim on Muslim, is reaching a new crescendo. If anyone wants to know what a "Palestinian state" would look like, read on. One wonders how anyone, in their right mind, could wish for this.

Excerpts of New York Times article below (link to article):

Hezbollah Ignites a Sectarian Fuse in Lebanon

By ROBERT F. WORTH and NADA BAKRI

Published: May 18, 2008

MENIEH, Lebanon — For two and a half days, Hussein al-Haj Obaid lay on the floor of a darkened warehouse in west Beirut, blindfolded and terrified. Militiamen loyal to Hezbollah had kidnapped him at a checkpoint after killing his nephew right in front of him.

Throughout those awful days, as his kidnappers kicked and punched him, applied electrical shocks to his genitals and insulted him with sectarian taunts, he could hear the chatter of gunfire and the crash of rocket-propelled grenades outside, where Hezbollah and its allies were taking control of the capital.

He returned to this northern village only after family members won his release just over a week ago by threatening the kidnappers with retaliation. By that time Mr. Obaid, a Sunni Muslim, had gained a whole new way of seeing his Shiite countrymen and his native land.

“We cannot go back to how we lived with them before,” he said as he sat with relatives and friends at home here. “The blood is boiling here. Every boy here, his blood is boiling. They push us, they push us, they push us.”

Those feelings are being echoed throughout Lebanon. After almost a week of street battles that left scores dead and threatened to push the country into open war, long-simmering Sunni-Shiite tensions here have sharply worsened, in an ominous echo of the civil conflict in Iraq.

Hezbollah’s brief takeover of Beirut led to brutal counterattacks in northern Lebanon, where Sunni Muslims deeply resented the Shiite militant group’s display of power. The violence energized radical Sunni factions, including some affiliated with Al Qaeda, and extremist Sunni Web sites across the Arab world have been buzzing with calls for a jihad to avenge the wounded pride of Lebanese Sunnis.

****************

A Terrifying Ordeal

Mr. Obaid was one of many Sunni men who drove to Beirut after hearing that Hezbollah was attacking the offices of his political patron, Mr. Hariri. On arriving in the city, he stopped at a checkpoint, where militiamen asked him where he was from.

He barely had time to answer, he said, before the men — who recognized him as a Sunni from his northern accent — opened fire on the car, riddling it with bullets and killing Mr. Obaid’s young nephew, Abdo.

Mr. Obaid got out and tried to run, but the men caught him and took him to a warehouse, where he endured two and a half days of torture. He took off his shirt to show a reporter the fresh scars.

“They gave me a hard, hard time, brother,” said Mr. Obaid, who speaks English with a strong Australian accent, a legacy of 13 years he spent in that country.

“They did not even ask for my ID card, they just hear my voice,” Mr. Obaid said. “They treated us like animals, like animals.”

**********

Edited May 18, 2008 by jbg

[Oleg Bach]

The Muslims and the Christians, and the Muslims and Israelis have been at each other's throats calamitously for many years. Now, the violence, now Muslim on Muslim, is reaching a new crescendo. If anyone wants to know what a "Palestinian state" would look like, read on. One wonders how anyone, in their right mind, could wish for this.

Excerpts of New York Times article below:

Hezbollah Ignites a Sectarian Fuse in Lebanon

By ROBERT F. WORTH and NADA BAKRI

Published: May 18, 2008

MENIEH, Lebanon — For two and a half days, Hussein al-Haj Obaid lay on the floor of a darkened warehouse in west Beirut, blindfolded and terrified. Militiamen loyal to Hezbollah had kidnapped him at a checkpoint after killing his nephew right in front of him.

Throughout those awful days, as his kidnappers kicked and punched him, applied electrical shocks to his genitals and insulted him with sectarian taunts, he could hear the chatter of gunfire and the crash of rocket-propelled grenades outside, where Hezbollah and its allies were taking control of the capital.

He returned to this northern village only after family members won his release just over a week ago by threatening the kidnappers with retaliation. By that time Mr. Obaid, a Sunni Muslim, had gained a whole new way of seeing his Shiite countrymen and his native land.

“We cannot go back to how we lived with them before,” he said as he sat with relatives and friends at home here. “The blood is boiling here. Every boy here, his blood is boiling. They push us, they push us, they push us.”

Those feelings are being echoed throughout Lebanon. After almost a week of street battles that left scores dead and threatened to push the country into open war, long-simmering Sunni-Shiite tensions here have sharply worsened, in an ominous echo of the civil conflict in Iraq.

Hezbollah’s brief takeover of Beirut led to brutal counterattacks in northern Lebanon, where Sunni Muslims deeply resented the Shiite militant group’s display of power. The violence energized radical Sunni factions, including some affiliated with Al Qaeda, and extremist Sunni Web sites across the Arab world have been buzzing with calls for a jihad to avenge the wounded pride of Lebanese Sunnis.

****************

A Terrifying Ordeal

Mr. Obaid was one of many Sunni men who drove to Beirut after hearing that Hezbollah was attacking the offices of his political patron, Mr. Hariri. On arriving in the city, he stopped at a checkpoint, where militiamen asked him where he was from.

He barely had time to answer, he said, before the men — who recognized him as a Sunni from his northern accent — opened fire on the car, riddling it with bullets and killing Mr. Obaid’s young nephew, Abdo.

Mr. Obaid got out and tried to run, but the men caught him and took him to a warehouse, where he endured two and a half days of torture. He took off his shirt to show a reporter the fresh scars.

“They gave me a hard, hard time, brother,” said Mr. Obaid, who speaks English with a strong Australian accent, a legacy of 13 years he spent in that country.

“They did not even ask for my ID card, they just hear my voice,” Mr. Obaid said. “They treated us like animals, like animals.”

**********

This is hearting and a natural turn of events. It is very hopeful and is as hopeful as the final outcome of the globalist agenda in the end. The great part about the grabing conspiratorial mentality of ruling the world in a dog pack...is that once they have taken total control THEY ALWAYS TURN ON EACH OTHER...thank God for that lower part of human nature.

[Remiel]

Way to cheer on the bloodshed, jbg.

Somehow I do not think you will be so enthusiastic if there is every a serious confrontation between militant settlers and the IDF.

[jbg]

Way to cheer on the bloodshed, jbg.

Somehow I do not think you will be so enthusiastic if there is every a serious confrontation between militant settlers and the IDF.

I never cheer on bloodshed. I seriously doubt that the IDF would engage in this conduct:

"punched him, applied electrical shocks to his genitals and insulted him with sectarian taunts"

Edited May 18, 2008 by jbg

[Remiel]

You are missing the point: You constantly glorify cases of violence commited by Muslims as part of your campaign to turn everyone against them. And it is a campaign. You pulled this same garbage when I was a regular here in 2006/2007. What you are doing is using an irrational technique of persuasion, selectivity. Worst of all, you enjoy it. You enjoy ragging on the Muslims.

You could just be thankful that your people are not involved in this kind of violent internal conflict right now, instead of taking some kind of perverted glee in every story you can dig up about how " evil " and " barbaric " the " Other " is. The particulars of each case are unimportant. Violence is violence. When the day comes when there is a bloody incident between the settlers and the police or the IDF, and some partisan hack from the other side smiles while he says, " Look at what the Jews are doing to each other! " you will think be thinking, what kind of terrible creature is this man to take pleasure in this? Well, jbg, he is you.

Do you honestly think that what happens to this man is qualifiable worse than what happens to sex slaves who are being held captive in this country every day? In your country as well? Stop and think! for a moment, will you? There are no evil peoples, only evil persons.

[jbg]

You are missing the point: You constantly glorify cases of violence commited by Muslims as part of your campaign to turn everyone against them. And it is a campaign. You pulled this same garbage when I was a regular here in 2006/2007. What you are doing is using an irrational technique of persuasion, selectivity. Worst of all, you enjoy it. You enjoy ragging on the Muslims.

To the contrary, I am showing my high respect for Islam.

[JB Globe]

He's right you know. What you're doing is wrong.

Pesach wasn't that long ago - remember the part in the Haggadah where it says we shouldn't take joy in the pain of the ancient Egyptians after the plagues happened? Even after all that happened - we prayed for them then and we pray for them now.

Even if you see all Muslims as your enemy, which they aren't, than even you have to admit you're not being a very good Jew by gloating about a situation that involves such things as someone's child getting shot in a crossfire, or an apartment collapsing from a stray RPG and killing an entire family except for one pour soul who spends the rest of their lives wondering why they didn't die too.

That's the totality of the situation - why don't you post some of the descriptions of the civilian deaths so far and see if you can take pleasure out of that?

[jbg]

He's right you know. What you're doing is wrong.

Pesach wasn't that long ago - remember the part in the Haggadah where it says we shouldn't take joy in the pain of the ancient Egyptians after the plagues happened? Even after all that happened - we prayed for them then and we pray for them now.

I am not gloating about bad things happening to the Muslims. However, I think it is inevitable that subgroups within a culture and, to some extent religion based upon violence will ultimately turn upon each other. Since both groups (or at least the local representatives of the Shi'ites Hezbollah and the local representatives of the Sunnis, Al Fatah) feature on their menu unrestrained, sickening violence the potential for a conflagration making the Christian-Muslims 1975-1991 Lebanese Civil War look like child's play exists. While I do not want bad things to happen to people, to the extent that they take pressure off of civilized countries and people there are benefits.

Inevitably, the inability of these groups to resolve differences peacefully makes them weaker entities than the democracies. That was one of the lessons of both world wars.

Even if you see all Muslims as your enemy, which they aren't, than even you have to admit you're not being a very good Jew by gloating about a situation that involves such things as someone's child getting shot in a crossfire, or an apartment collapsing from a stray RPG and killing an entire family except for one pour soul who spends the rest of their lives wondering why they didn't die too.

That's the totality of the situation - why don't you post some of the descriptions of the civilian deaths so far and see if you can take pleasure out of that?

Collateral damage is inevitable in war. It is worsened when military targets are deliberately located in civilian areas in order to create good optics for the news media.

[eyeball]

Inevitably, the inability of these groups to resolve differences peacefully makes them weaker...

...so said the conquorer to the divider.

[DogOnPorch]

Rem:Way to cheer on the bloodshed, jbg.

You are missing the point: You constantly glorify cases of violence commited by Muslims as part of your campaign to turn everyone against them.

What is this? MacLeans magazine? Perhaps we should drag jbg through the HRC so he posts an equal number of pro-terrorist articles. Maybe buffycat will do likewise...lol.

...so said the conquorer to the divider.

Eh? Who's who?

-----------------------------

That is why if Lebanon concludes a peace agreement with Israel and brings that accord to the Parliament our deputies will reject it; Hezbollah refuses any conciliation with Israel in principle.

---Hassan Nasrallah

[eyeball]

...so said the conquorer to the divider.

Eh? Who's who?

...it is inevitable that subgroups within a culture...will ultimately turn upon each other...there are benefits.

Who? Civilized countries and democracies, people who should know better.

[DogOnPorch]

So we are the conquorer? That explains all those Lebanese w/ Canadian passports.

Question: How long have you been disgruntled with Western culture and what event would you consider the root cause for this?

Myself, I'm proud of our civilization's achievments...from heart surgery to landing on the Moon. I know you dislike that word "proud" when used this way...but, I also suspect the idealism of youth is talking more than reason...is it?

------------------------------------

Youth is easily deceived, because it is quick to hope.

---Aristotle

[CANADIEN]

The Muslims and the Christians, and the Muslims and Israelis have been at each other's throats calamitously for many years. Now, the violence, now Muslim on Muslim, is reaching a new crescendo. If anyone wants to know what a "Palestinian state" would look like, read on. One wonders how anyone, in their right mind, could wish for this.

Excerpts of New York Times article below (link to article):

Hezbollah Ignites a Sectarian Fuse in Lebanon

By ROBERT F. WORTH and NADA BAKRI

Published: May 18, 2008

MENIEH, Lebanon — For two and a half days, Hussein al-Haj Obaid lay on the floor of a darkened warehouse in west Beirut, blindfolded and terrified. Militiamen loyal to Hezbollah had kidnapped him at a checkpoint after killing his nephew right in front of him.

Throughout those awful days, as his kidnappers kicked and punched him, applied electrical shocks to his genitals and insulted him with sectarian taunts, he could hear the chatter of gunfire and the crash of rocket-propelled grenades outside, where Hezbollah and its allies were taking control of the capital.

He returned to this northern village only after family members won his release just over a week ago by threatening the kidnappers with retaliation. By that time Mr. Obaid, a Sunni Muslim, had gained a whole new way of seeing his Shiite countrymen and his native land.

“We cannot go back to how we lived with them before,” he said as he sat with relatives and friends at home here. “The blood is boiling here. Every boy here, his blood is boiling. They push us, they push us, they push us.”

Those feelings are being echoed throughout Lebanon. After almost a week of street battles that left scores dead and threatened to push the country into open war, long-simmering Sunni-Shiite tensions here have sharply worsened, in an ominous echo of the civil conflict in Iraq.

Hezbollah’s brief takeover of Beirut led to brutal counterattacks in northern Lebanon, where Sunni Muslims deeply resented the Shiite militant group’s display of power. The violence energized radical Sunni factions, including some affiliated with Al Qaeda, and extremist Sunni Web sites across the Arab world have been buzzing with calls for a jihad to avenge the wounded pride of Lebanese Sunnis.

****************

A Terrifying Ordeal

Mr. Obaid was one of many Sunni men who drove to Beirut after hearing that Hezbollah was attacking the offices of his political patron, Mr. Hariri. On arriving in the city, he stopped at a checkpoint, where militiamen asked him where he was from.

He barely had time to answer, he said, before the men — who recognized him as a Sunni from his northern accent — opened fire on the car, riddling it with bullets and killing Mr. Obaid’s young nephew, Abdo.

Mr. Obaid got out and tried to run, but the men caught him and took him to a warehouse, where he endured two and a half days of torture. He took off his shirt to show a reporter the fresh scars.

“They gave me a hard, hard time, brother,” said Mr. Obaid, who speaks English with a strong Australian accent, a legacy of 13 years he spent in that country.

“They did not even ask for my ID card, they just hear my voice,” Mr. Obaid said. “They treated us like animals, like animals.”

**********

Reminds me of a country where men throw stones at women of the same faith, attacks merchants who open their stores or people who drive on their hoy day.

The country is called Israel. Yet, only misguided people or anti-Semites argue it should not exist. And in case you are tempted to try that one... no I am not one of these people, and no I do not think Jews and Isrealis are bad uncivilized people by definition.

[jbg]

Reminds me of a country where men throw stones at women of the same faith, attacks merchants who open their stores or people who drive on their hoy day.

The country is called Israel. Yet, only misguided people or anti-Semites argue it should not exist. And in case you are tempted to try that one... no I am not one of these people, and no I do not think Jews and Isrealis are bad uncivilized people by definition.

Only the Chasids, a small sect. do what you are describing. Basically they are outcasts in our religion.

There is nothing "outcast" about the rulers of the dominant Shi'ite and Sunni sects. Even the 911 bombers were condemned in the sense of criticism of "violence in all its forms", an oblique reference to Zionism.

[eyeball]

So we are the conquorer?

Did I say we? I don't think so, why would you?

Question: How long have you been disgruntled with Western culture and what event would you consider the root cause for this?

Probably since the Vietnam war when I was a kid. The difference between right and wrong seemed as obvious then as it does today.

Myself, I'm proud of our civilization's achievments...from heart surgery to landing on the Moon. I know you dislike that word "proud" when used this way...but, I also suspect the idealism of youth is talking more than reason...is it?

Its not a matter of dislike for pride, its just that I reserve my expressions of it, for kids mostly. They do tend to idealize achievement and their need for recognition, even more than some adults do, sometimes.

[Borg]

Lots of sqawking here - fact is they hate each other - real bad like.

Their values are different than ours and life is real, real cheap to most of them.

They will kill each other off for a while and then start on the Christian folks or the Jewish folks again.

Cannot judge them with our values - they are not interested in them.

Been like that for thousands of years and not likely to stop in our life time.

Some folks will cheer and some folks will snear - but in the end it is not going to change.

It will only stop if someone wins or there is a strong enough reason to band together and kill some other group of people.

Or if the UN goes in under Chapter 7 (?) - peace making. There is no will for this - suspect the big boys (not just the United States) would veto it anyways - and we will see lots more folks come home in bags if the UN does go in.

Tribe before flag always wins out in this part of the world.

Leave them be and it will all come out in the wash.

Borg

[WarBicycle]

Cheapest show in town—watching Muslims kill each other.

[DogOnPorch]

Did I say we? I don't think so, why would you?

I suppose your statement is a tad too cryptic...fill me in, then...who's the conqueror and who's the divider?

Probably since the Vietnam war when I was a kid. The difference between right and wrong seemed as obvious then as it does today.

As a Canadian, what did you find wrong with Viet-nam? Was it the Communists trying to topple the Republic of South Viet-nam by using neutral countries as bases? Because, that worked in the end. Or was it the Americans apparently fabricating an event in order to commit the USMC to the defence of Da-Nang? Perhaps it was the total waste of effort like at Cam Rahn Bay where the Soviets moved in and took the superport after the US left and South Viet-nam fell? I suppose a lot of things about Viet-nam could piss one off. So what's your beef? Your one sentance explaination doesn't really say much except a cliche' sort of pat response...you know...drugs 'r bad...guns don't kill people; people kill people...etc.

Its not a matter of dislike for pride, its just that I reserve my expressions of it, for kids mostly. They do tend to idealize achievement and their need for recognition, even more than some adults do, sometimes.

So...when NASA (and ESA) sent the Cassini probe to Saturn and it started sending back those wonderful pictures and data...which it still does...you don't think it's worth a pat on the back to the folks who managed to put it altogether? Only a few select nations and cultures have managed to do this even on a minor scale. How about the two Mars rovers? How about

? He's still a huge source of pride (there's that word again) for Russia. Buried w/ honors @ the Kremlin Wall. Iran made a HUGE deal about

befor/during/after her $20 million dollar Soyuz/ISS flight back in 2006 even though she and her family left Iran for America soon after the revolution.

-----------------------------------------------

We want to explore. We're curious people. Look back over history, people have put their lives at stake to go out and explore. We believe in what we're doing. Now it's time to go.

---Col. Eileen Collins, NASA-USAF Shuttle Pilot/Commander, STS-63, 84, 93 and 114. America's first female STS pilot.

Edited May 20, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[jbg]

Cheapest show in town—watching Muslims kill each other.

The show must go on.

[JB Globe]

JBG, you were accused of taking pleasure in watching Muslims kill Muslims in Lebanon, then you defended yourself here . . .

I never cheer on bloodshed.

However then WarBicycle said this . . .

Cheapest show in town—watching Muslims kill each other.

To which you responded with this . . .

The show must go on.

Do you have anything to say for yourself?

I mean - I'm starting to think you're not trying to deny you do these things to us, because this isn't the first time you've blatantly contradicted yourself in the same post. I'm starting to think it's more about not admitting it to yourself that you enjoy when human beings killing other human beings.

[jbg]

JBG, you were accused of taking pleasure in watching Muslims kill Muslims in Lebanon, then you defended yourself here . . .

However then WarBicycle said this . . .

To which you responded with this . . .

Do you have anything to say for yourself?

I mean - I'm starting to think you're not trying to deny you do these things to us, because this isn't the first time you've blatantly contradicted yourself in the same post. I'm starting to think it's more about not admitting it to yourself that you enjoy when human beings killing other human beings.

In general, peaceful, constructive people are not in the business of killing each other. The animals are. In an ideal world I would like the respective animals in each sect to wipe each other out and leave behind people who actually go to work in the morning rather than dream up new, gruesome tortures and methods of murder.

[WarBicycle]

Urban Outfitters New Tee-shirt

Contact Urban Outfitters

I sent them an e-mail stating I will never set foot in their stores again.

[eyeball]

So what's your beef? Your one sentance explaination doesn't really say much except a cliche' sort of pat response...you know...drugs 'r bad...guns don't kill people; people kill people...etc.

Do you believe these things?

So...when NASA (and ESA) sent the Cassini probe to Saturn and it started sending back those wonderful pictures and data...which it still does...you don't think it's worth a pat on the back to the folks who managed to put it altogether? Only a few select nations and cultures have managed to do this even on a minor scale. How about the two Mars rovers?

Yes, the people who helped increase human awareness deserve a pat on the back as for a couple of robots I might as well pat my toaster and refrigerator on the back.

How about

? He's still a huge source of pride (there's that word again) for Russia. Buried w/ honors @ the Kremlin Wall.

No, not at all. He was a huge source of vanity for a super-power just like the astronauts that went to the moon.

Iran made a HUGE deal about

befor/during/after her $20 million dollar Soyuz/ISS flight back in 2006 even though she and her family left Iran for America soon after the revolution.

Pride cometh before the fall after all.

[M.Dancer]

Pride cometh before the fall after all.

The correct quote is:

Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 16:18

[DogOnPorch]

Do you believe these things?

Yes, the people who helped increase human awareness deserve a pat on the back as for a couple of robots I might as well pat my toaster and refrigerator on the back.

No, not at all. He was a huge source of vanity for a super-power just like the astronauts that went to the moon.

Pride cometh before the fall after all.

Since you're going to ignore my questions and continue with pat cliche's rather than a formulated response, I have no choice but to disregard you as non-responsive.

Cheers

----------------------------------------------

I'm so glad we had this time together...just to have a laugh or sing a song...

---Carol Burnett