Young People Earn Less Than Parents

[jdobbin]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Extra years in school aren't paying off financially for many of Canada's young people, who are better educated but worse paid than people their age a generation ago.

According to census data released Thursday by Statistics Canada, workers between the ages of 25 and 29 make less than their predecessors, especially men.

In 1980, median earnings for full-time male workers in that age group were equal to $43,767 in today's wages. In 2000, they had dropped to $38,110 and by 2005 they were at $37,680.

While women have statistically always earned less than men, their drop in wages was notably less drastic. In 1980, women aged 25 to 29 made $32,813 in inflation-adjusted dollars. In 2005 they earned just slightly less, $32,104, according to the report, titled "Earnings and Incomes of Canadians over the Past Quarter Century, 2006 Census."

A little depressing for those in that age bracket.

I'm sure that this whittling away of wages has a significant impact on all aspects of life including marriage, children, buying a home and disposable income.

[eyeball]

I'm sure that this whittling away of wages has a significant impact on all aspects of life including marriage, children, buying a home and disposable income.

A beneficial impact you would think - lower wages = lower costs = lower prices = a stronger economy...in theory. My kids grandparents have confirmed that kids have it much easier today so... Statistics Canada must be wrong. Have they been hiring climatologists or something? That might explain the alarmism in the CTV article.

[August1991]

A beneficial impact you would think - lower wages = lower costs = lower prices = a stronger economy...in theory. My kids grandparents have confirmed that kids have it much easier today so... Statistics Canada must be wrong. Have they been hiring climatologists or something? That might explain the alarmism in the CTV article.

Eyeball, I'm surprised to see you make that argument.

The CTV article is based on Statistics Canada data referring to the median wage. According to the data, average wages are rising because the rich are getting richer.

The National Post had a slightly different take on the Statscan data:

Recent immigrants are losing the battle to close the earnings gap with Canadian-born workers, and women in particular are falling behind, according to the latest release of 2006 census data from Statistics Canada.

In its report of results from the census, released Thursday and focusing on income and earnings, Statistics Canada says the gap continues to widen even though the education levels of recent immigrants in the workforce rose much faster than among their Canadian-born counterparts.

National Post

Recent immigrants form an increasing share of the 25-29 demographic and this may explain in part the observed apparent decrease since 1980 in the median income of this demographic.

In a sense, Dobbin's thread title is misleading. Among native born Canadians, their kids are generally better off than their parents - except that many native born Canadians don't have kids. The immigrants who represent their "replacements" are not doing so well, but they're probably doing better than their real parents abroad. So, in all cases, young people are doing better than their parents.

----

I looked briefly at the Statscan data and it wasn't clear to me if they were talking about gross or after-tax income. Much of the rise in real GDP in the past few years has been gobbled up by governments and individuals don't really see the larger pie. Unfortunately, governments just waste the portion of the pie they take it's as if we never had it.

There's another way to view this. Productivity has increased in Canada over the past 25 years. The extra product gets taken by somebody else and the average joe doesn't see it. Government bureaucracies are a black hole which seem to require larger slices of pie to maintain a constant or decreasing level of service. I guess it's in the nature of the beast.

Edited May 1, 2008 by August1991

[oreodontist]

We just helped our 18 year old nephew do his taxes. He arrived here last year from PEI. He earned 69,000 and change. Knowing his parent's circumstance in PEI, that's probably double what his father has ever earned...let alone what his father earned at 18 years of age.

So sure, he could have stayed on the Island and earned 20 thousand or so. Might be less in buying power than his father earned at 18....BUT...there's no need for young folks to earn less if they have show some initiative and 'go where the action is'. I didn't go back to Nova Scotia after finishing university in Montreal but headed out West. My wife didn't go back to rural Ontario after university but headed out West. Canada's a nation of immigrants and those who are successful don't feel 'entitled' to the lifestyle of their parents but know they have to seek it out and earn it.

[eyeball]

Eyeball, I'm surprised to see you make that argument.

I'm sorry, I was being facetious. Go figure.

[eyeball]

We just helped our 18 year old nephew do his taxes. He arrived here last year from PEI. He earned 69,000 and change. Knowing his parent's circumstance in PEI, that's probably double what his father has ever earned...let alone what his father earned at 18 years of age.

So sure, he could have stayed on the Island and earned 20 thousand or so. Might be less in buying power than his father earned at 18....BUT...there's no need for young folks to earn less if they have show some initiative and 'go where the action is'. I didn't go back to Nova Scotia after finishing university in Montreal but headed out West. My wife didn't go back to rural Ontario after university but headed out West. Canada's a nation of immigrants and those who are successful don't feel 'entitled' to the lifestyle of their parents but know they have to seek it out and earn it.

I suspect you'll soon be up to your eyeballs in 18 year olds, then we'll see how much you like it.

[guyser]

I suspect you'll soon be up to your eyeballs in 18 year olds, then we'll see how much you like it.

Well.....one could see the positives in that. Couldnt they?

[blueblood]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

A little depressing for those in that age bracket.

I'm sure that this whittling away of wages has a significant impact on all aspects of life including marriage, children, buying a home and disposable income.

Are student loan payments factored into that? There are a lot of Canadians in debt with student loans. If they aren't factored in, those students should go to the Univerities and demand a refund (figuratively speaking) because all that time in school to be making less is a lot of wasted time, when people can go out to the oilfields and be more well off than the average university educated person will ever be.

[eyeball]

Well.....one could see the positives in that. Couldnt they?

Get your mind out of the gutter...

[jdobbin]

Are student loan payments factored into that? There are a lot of Canadians in debt with student loans. If they aren't factored in, those students should go to the Univerities and demand a refund (figuratively speaking) because all that time in school to be making less is a lot of wasted time, when people can go out to the oilfields and be more well off than the average university educated person will ever be.

This study lasts from 1980 to 2005. The oil industry has gone up and down during that time. Are you suggesting that non-university students have always done well in Alberta and had jobs?

[blueblood]

This study lasts from 1980 to 2005. The oil industry has gone up and down during that time. Are you suggesting that non-university students have always done well in Alberta and had jobs?

Oil industry was an example. There was the forestry industry, the fishing industry, agriculture to some extent. Small business and trades are another example.

I'd say my examples are more relevant in the last ten years or so. Universities are at record enrollment and according to your figures later on (2000-2005) it is showing going to University could in fact be a fools errand. In 1980 it might not have been so because enrollment was lower.

What's worse is in another generation we could have people with phd's making only 32K adjusted for inflation

[jdobbin]

Oil industry was an example. There was the forestry industry, the fishing industry, agriculture to some extent. Small business and trades are another example.

What are you referring to with this?

I'd say my examples are more relevant in the last ten years or so. Universities are at record enrollment and according to your figures later on (2000-2005) it is showing going to University could in fact be a fools errand. In 1980 it might not have been so because enrollment was lower.

What's worse is in another generation we could have people with phd's making only 32K adjusted for inflation

People are rushing to Alberta now to get jobs that don't require anything more than a high school education or less. It still comes no where close to the manufacturing jobs lost in recent years in places like Quebec and Ontario.

[mikedavid00]

There's another way to view this. Productivity has increased in Canada over the past 25 years.

I wonder why everyone is in denial and wants to idealise on these sorts of things.

Let me make it simple.

Too much education - This devalues the education itself: A degree = no job or low paying service related job (ie: bank teller from a business admin degree or diploma).

Too much labor = This saturates wages so they are lower except the civil service jobs (amost 25% of all jobs in Canada receive their money from gov't funds. This is the primary reason we are over taxed and leaves the least amount of money for the citizen).

Too many people moving in 'un natrually' - Homes get purched, real estate market sky rockets, now university grads cannot even afford to buy a CONDO's all by themselves. The cost of living simply skyrockets. This is supply and demand. Homes in Calgary going for $1,000,000 that are 900 sq. ft bungalos, with no jobs in the area that could even support that mortgage. This is due to an influx of people (NOT THE JOBS PAYING HIGH). But that is another topic.

So the average young person is left with a 400 sq. foot condo, a low paying job, and maybe one day they can afford a car.

And all of this simply due to open immigration - THAT IS WHY I DO NOT SUPPORT IT AND IT IS MY #1 ISSUE RIGHT NOW.

Go back to 1980 and I'll show you my mom at that age in a Corvette, a house, and property investments - all from a single income.

[mikedavid00]

We just helped our 18 year old nephew do his taxes. He earned 69,000 and change.

So are you suggesting that this is typical?

If an 18 year old (who's not even done school) just moves out west, they will make $69k in the private sector all by himself?

Yeah thought so.. why not tell us the truth of why he made $69k..

[oreodontist]

So are you suggesting that this is typical?

If an 18 year old (who's not even done school) just moves out west, they will make $69k in the private sector all by himself?

Yeah thought so.. why not tell us the truth of why he made $69k..

Private sector as opposed to what? sitting on his ass in a public job that requires a Masters degree to twiddle a pencil all day?

Some make a lot more. Especially those who go up to Zama, Rainbow Lake, etc.

You want to work 24/7 365 days a year in alberta....you can. Alberta employment is not like a car plant in Windsor or some government job in Ottawa. Young guys start at 7 AM and earn $20 as labourers...after 8hours it's time and a half.... stay till 6PM...and all the overtime you want on Saturday. Folks here work hard for their money. Take those wages and add some cash, a per diem allowance and it's easily 110 grand in the oil patch. Put 2 years under your belt and add another 50 thousand.

[mikedavid00]

Some make a lot more. Especially those who go up to Zama, Rainbow Lake, etc.

Oh yes the unionized labor jobs from the oil sands.

20 an hour is like $40k a year.

The teenarger did $69k last year and you naturally don't tell the truth of how he made it.

There is no job for me in Alberta. There are low paying labor jobs that 'desperately' need to be filled.

If there were truly shortages of jobs, the job postings wouldn't be so demanding with experience and credentials and there would be white collar job postings.

And yeah, the job creation numbers would show these jobs. Instead, they are mostly in PART TIME work in the services industry. Big deal.

If I could rewind 10 years, I would have moved to Calgary. But now when there are no real job oppertunities except for labourers, and 940 sq ft. homes going for $1,000,000 with NO real salaries to back that kind of mortgage, then it's certainly not a good time to be moving to Calgary. Alberta also lacks private sector small and medium enterprise.. come to Ontario and you will see the difference in that regard.

People always try to get in when it's too late. Ontario has a very natural economy, but unfortunately immigration, liberal policies, and an over supply of 'people living here not contributing' have now ruined it due to the amount of high taxes.

[M.Dancer]

Oh yes the unionized labor jobs from the oil sands.

20 an hour is like $40k a year.

In Fort Fred McMurray, McDonalds pays $15 an hour.

[mikedavid00]

In Fort Fred McMurray, McDonalds pays $15 an hour.

That's my point though. McDonalds, labour, part time, etc.

And those mentioned regions are VERY low populations.

[Leafless]

In Fort Fred McMurray, McDonalds pays $15 an hour.

Poor Dancer does not understand that when you factor in the 'cost of living' your $15.00 unskilled hamburg funny money does not buy you very much.

The rule is:

No Training, No Good Work, No Big Money.

Part Time Unskilled work pays between $12:00 and $15:00 an hour. After deductions of 25% or more that greatly reduces the income. $15:00 after 25% deductions = $11:25 an hour x 6 days x 8 hours per day = $540:00 per week. With shared accomodation being around $900:00 or more per month, and food at $120:00 per week your expenses are already over $1300:00 which is more than 1/2 your earnings. This does not include Utilities, Transportation, Clothing etc. which might be more than $300:00 per month.

Unskilled

There is very little work of any kind for Unskilled people. Those jobs that are available are by Fort McMurray standards poorly payed due to the HIGH cost of living. A One bedroom Apartment (Flat) can cost $1,600.00 unfurnished. I saw an ad posted in a store/shop asking $2, 000 unfurnished, and $2,300 furnished. 98% of the work that is available requires some form of Training beyond basic school, such as a Tradesman, Technical School, Secretarial, or a College / University Degree.

In Posting #112, in the "Cost of Living" section in what is another "Story I Heard" in which the family requires 4 incomes to meet their living expenses. The man has 3 part time jobs, and the wife another income. Such is the fate of those who come based on "Stories I Heard" about "Big Money" work. If it is Unskilled, Semi-skilled, or Non-Union work then things such as "Double Time", "Free Medical", " Free Transportation", and "Paid Vacation Time" do NOT apply to those jobs. Hence it is NOT a "Big Money" type of work.

http://www.sacanada.org/lofiversion/index.php/t11304.html

[guyser]

comprehend , comprehension......Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-FRENCH (uh oh )comprendre, comprehendre, from Latin comprehendere, from com- + prehendere to grasp — more at get

Date: 14th century

1 : to grasp the nature, significance, or meaning of <unable to comprehend what has happened>

...still not getting it.