suicide among the Canadian military

[Topaz]

I just read over on Yahoo.ca that Canadian military personnel are committing suicide. 1994-2005 16 people took their lives, 20 in 2006 and 36 in 2007. The Major that read the document said he had to read it 6X because he couldn't believe it but said it was probably the war in Afghanistan that made them do it. I think the soldier that was found in his tent this past month probably did just that. It saddens me to think that they were so scare of dying that they did to themselves. Does anyone know if this also happened in WW2??

[capricorn]

Dont' know about WWII but I do know that dentists also have a high suicide rate.

[WarBicycle]

I am retired from the Canadian military; I find it hard to believe that only 16 service members committed suicide over a ten-year period. Most of the suicides that I am aware of during my period of service were the result of marital problems, breaking up with girlfriends, or members getting themselves into serious trouble due to theft or embezzlement. The war in the Balkans was every bit as dangerous as Afghanistan and the suicide rate was probably no different from that of the civilian population. For this war, the Canadian military actually went out of it way to hired experts that deal with post traumatic stress disorder to help soldiers deal with the stress of combat.

[Borg]

I just read over on Yahoo.ca that Canadian military personnel are committing suicide. 1994-2005 16 people took their lives, 20 in 2006 and 36 in 2007. The Major that read the document said he had to read it 6X because he couldn't believe it but said it was probably the war in Afghanistan that made them do it. I think the soldier that was found in his tent this past month probably did just that. It saddens me to think that they were so scare of dying that they did to themselves. Does anyone know if this also happened in WW2??

I am, leaving my family again - this time for a year in the middle east. No six month tour for this lucky puppy - but I did sign the blank cheque and I will honour it.

This whole thing is BS - promoted by someone with either an axe to grind or looking for an angle to sell paper.

Tempest in a tea pot. Just a little wind in the trees. People have been killing themselves for millions of years - if they are serious about it, you are not likely going to stop them.

Why don't we talk about all those real big - high number - serial killers - killers called doctors. Highly trained people who kill hundreds if not thousands every year in this country. Hell even Stats Canada keeps the numbers.

It is called "medical misadventure".

Now that would be a story.

Or perhaps there is a side line to this thread - a little anti military?

Borg

Edited April 19, 2008 by Borg

[Leafless]

Tempest in a tea pot. Just a little wind in the trees. People have been killing themselves for millions of years - if they are serious about it, you are not likely going to stop them.

This war is a little different than a normal war, where as Canada is involved with another nations interest and not our own.

Although soldiers are not forced to fight and if one declines, many argue your military career is over if you don't.

Many see this war as offering ones services, only to be slaugtered like sheep, due to the abnormal military tacticts including (suicide bombers) by the enemy.

To truly tackle this war on terror in the proper perspective (harsher methods directly dealing with source countries harbouring terrorist) would probably trigger a world war, but those are consequences that should be faced.

It is understandable why military personnel could be leary of being involved in this type of war but the higher suicide rates are not understandable as the option to leave the forces is there.

[M.Dancer]

I just read over on Yahoo.ca that Canadian military personnel are committing suicide. 1994-2005 16 people took their lives, 20 in 2006 and 36 in 2007. The Major that read the document said he had to read it 6X because he couldn't believe it but said it was probably the war in Afghanistan that made them do it. I think the soldier that was found in his tent this past month probably did just that. It saddens me to think that they were so scare of dying that they did to themselves. Does anyone know if this also happened in WW2??

Then no doubt you will be able to provide a link so we can see exactly what it is that confused you.

[Topaz]

Then no doubt you will be able to provide a link so we can see exactly what it is that confused you.

Sorry about the link www.ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080418/canada/canada_military_suicide_1 IF by chance it doesn't work, just to go yahoo.com and type in canadian military suicides and you'll get 5 stories.

[jazzer]

Topaz, the right is only going to trot out the old chestnut about other professions and their suicide rates. They simply don't care about the soldiers mental heath. Don't think you can chink that armor.

[WarBicycle]

This war is a little different than a normal war, where as Canada is involved with another nations interest and not our own.

Al-Qaeda has had active cells in Canada capable of committing terrorist acts for more than twenty years. At least a dozen or more Islamic militants living in Canada were tried under the Official Secrets Act for their involvement in the first World Trade Center. Their trial took place at St. Catharines, Ontario in the mid 1990's. An al-Qaeda sleeper cell in Canada planned to carry out LAX and Seattle Space Needle attacks. There is also the Khadar family and their poor young son Omar. The Left loves to identify him as an innocent child soldier; Omar was 15 when he was captured in Afghanistan. The law only considers a combatant a child soldier if they are under the age of fifteen. Human Rights Watch, a Leftist organization, considers anyone under the age of eighteen a child soldier. One only has to been sixteen to join the Canadian Forces under the Regular Officer Training Program; by their standards, Canada is guilty of employing child soldiers. I too must have been a child soldier because I was actively involved with the FLQ problem in 1964/65 as a seventeen-year-old private serving with the Black Watch.

Edited April 20, 2008 by WarBicycle

[Leafless]

Al-Qaeda has had active cells in Canada capable of committing terrorist acts for more than twenty years. At least a dozen or more Islamic militants living in Canada were tried under the Official Secrets Act for their involvement in the first World Trade Center. Their trial took place at St. Catharines, Ontario in the mid 1990's. An al-Qaeda sleeper cell in Canada planned to carry out LAX and Seattle Space Needle attacks. There is also the Khadar family and their poor young son Omar.

So what.

You are identifying potential terrorist.

No Arab country has ever declared war on Canada or the U.S. and that is my point.

The war on terror is a misnomer as it really was an attack on the U.S. 'by enemies of freedom'.

On September the 11th, enemies of freedom committed an act of war against our country.

That is an unofficial act of war or terrorist attack, not a war.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20010920-8.html

I have no argument that something should significantly be done, but in a totally different way than currently is being done, as explained in my previous post.

[Borg]

Topaz, the right is only going to trot out the old chestnut about other professions and their suicide rates. They simply don't care about the soldiers mental heath. Don't think you can chink that armor.

As I wear the uniform I hope you do not include me in your highly inaccurate statement.

If the truth hurts why not tell it?

As for folks killing themselves - happens every day and does not get reported.

The military is not perfect and the government is not perfect. And the soldier is for darned sure not perfect.

But if you - as a VOLUNTEER - take the Queen's schilling - you sign a blank cheque that includes everything up to and including your life.

Take the schilling and prepare for the risks - or stay home.

If you have a problem see the unit Doc and get referred to a shrink. It is a simple short walk to the medical clinic and it is VERY confidential today.

Heck you cannot even go on deployment without a nod from the social worker, the shrink and the doc.

They are the only three - that I can think of off the top - that can stop you from going with no explanation required.

And yes they make mistakes - hmmmm ..... medical misadventure again?

Is it sad that someone take their own life? Some might say so.

Personally I think it is the cowards way out - the only people to suffer are the family and friends. Then again perhaps that was the purpose?

But the person committing suicide does not have the enjoyment of sitting around and watching the end result.

Yell at me all you want - I have many chinks in my armour - this is not one of them.

Borg

[jazzer]

Borg, if you are right-leaning then I'm sure you are an exception. My intent was to exclude the army itself as they have a vested interest.

[Pliny]

For this war, the Canadian military actually went out of it way to hired experts that deal with post traumatic stress disorder to help soldiers deal with the stress of combat.

Precisely the problem!

[peijay]

I talked to a young member of the RCR that returned from afghanistan and decided he had enough of this bull. He is a very quiet,polite, and unassuming young guy who wants to go to university and move his life ahead. he finds out that about 50% of his comrades are also trying to get out. WHY? there is a problem and no one is ready to address it. this operation is more horrendous on our troops than the military or the gov. is letting on. these young people are heroes and they are being subjected to far more than they bargained for. they will never tell the horrors and i love them for this ,but the toll it takes on them personnally is beyond belief.

We need a gov. that thinks of people and not political agendas and start asking if the end is worth the means.

it's time to say "forget political and think people"

thank god my son decided not to go .

[Borg]

Precisely the problem!

Pliny - it is early in the morning and I have yet to have my first coffee - thanks for the chuckle - bang on the mark.

It is almost like those so called professional grief counsellors - a useless exercise in self examination that is not considered successful by the expert unless tears flow.

Generally I tell the experts to F%^k Off unless it has career implicationas - then I do the minimum to get rid of the smarmy, limp wristed, weak dick, clinging b%^tards.

Cheers

Borg

Edited April 20, 2008 by Borg

[Argus]

Topaz, the right is only going to trot out the old chestnut about other professions and their suicide rates. They simply don't care about the soldiers mental heath. Don't think you can chink that armor.

How odd it is, then, that the right has been expressing support for soldiers and their profession, and demanding both better pay and better equipment for decades. The Left, meanwhile, sneers at soldiers at thugs and killers, lowbrow types who clearly don't have the proper degree of respect for gay rights and multiculturalism, and aren't sensitive, caring men who read poetry.

Anti-militarism has been a cornerstone of the Left in Canada for decades, and hasn't changed. Any pretense of concern for the military now is only a show to allow them to attack the mission in Afghanistan and the Conservative government.

[Argus]

Borg, if you are right-leaning then I'm sure you are an exception. My intent was to exclude the army itself as they have a vested interest.

Right, dirty bastards. Can't expect honesty from them about anything.

Glad to see you, on the Left, have so much respect for the military you care so deeply about.

[Army Guy]

Topaz:

I just read over on Yahoo.ca that Canadian military personnel are committing suicide. 1994-2005 16 people took their lives, 20 in 2006 and 36 in 2007. The Major that read the document said he had to read it 6X because he couldn't believe it but said it was probably the war in Afghanistan that made them do it. I think the soldier that was found in his tent this past month probably did just that. It saddens me to think that they were so scare of dying that they did to themselves. Does anyone know if this also happened in WW2??

Suicide is a problem not just in the military but across the country. But i have to question your motives in posting this. Have you checked what the suicide rates are for firemen, police, EMS techs, dentists, laywers, stock brokers, homeless people, and compared them...Every profession has suicide rates ..So why this post...

A person that is afraid of dieing is less likely to take thier own life. And although i'm sure the the war does contain alot of factors that can push an individual over the edge, it is not the sole cause....in most cases...it's a series of problems that when balled up , an individual thinks the only way out is thru death....

Jazzer:

Topaz, the right is only going to trot out the old chestnut about other professions and their suicide rates. They simply don't care about the soldiers mental heath. Don't think you can chink that armor.

DND as got more mental health projects and checks and balances than any other dept or profession, and yet "IF" we were to compare professions we would find that DND is not at the top or for that matter in the middle, so although all suicides are tragic , i've got to ask what is the piont, of this post other than to spill some bad light on DND....

[Army Guy]

Leafless:

This war is a little different than a normal war, where as Canada is involved with another nations interest and not our own.

Don't let anyone fool you leafless, war is war, this one is no different than any others...Canada does have her own agenda, her own interests in being involved in Afganistan. It's funney i never thought you were a "this is a US war and US problem" type of guy...

Although soldiers are not forced to fight and if one declines, many argue your military career is over if you don't.

Depending on your trade, i would agree with your statement, DND gives you ample reasons to opt out of fighting, and if your problem is serious enough then you'll stay home...But an infanteer that refuses to fight is like and plumber that refues to do plumbing, kind of useless don't you think....so yes your carear would be over...if your a long serving member they will find you some quite office job some where, so you can serve out the rest of your time .... if your a short timer then yes they will ask you to find another carear choice....

Many see this war as offering ones services, only to be slaugtered like sheep, due to the abnormal military tacticts including (suicide bombers) by the enemy.

Slaughter like sheep, abnormal tactics including suicide bomber...something like wading ashore during dieppe , or normandy....that kind of slaugter, when the first wave suffered 75% cas....or do you mean it's slaughter because you don't know when your going to get blown up....

Every Canadian soldier that has died is a loss that effects us all, but it is in no means a slaughter....

To truly tackle this war on terror in the proper perspective (harsher methods directly dealing with source countries harbouring terrorist) would probably trigger a world war, but those are consequences that should be faced.

So you disagree with the Afgan war, but agree with widening it's scope...i'm confused...

[Army Guy]

Peijay:

I talked to a young member of the RCR that returned from afghanistan and decided he had enough of this bull. He is a very quiet,polite, and unassuming young guy who wants to go to university and move his life ahead. he finds out that about 50% of his comrades are also trying to get out. WHY? there is a problem and no one is ready to address it. this operation is more horrendous on our troops than the military or the gov. is letting on. these young people are heroes and they are being subjected to far more than they bargained for. they will never tell the horrors and i love them for this ,but the toll it takes on them personnally is beyond belief.

We need a gov. that thinks of people and not political agendas and start asking if the end is worth the means.

it's time to say "forget political and think people"

thank god my son decided not to go .

I too am an RCR, Release rates have always been high for combat arms trades, for many reasons....most of them have nothing to do with Afgan...The government and DND are working hard at fixing the problem but our main focus is the Afgan mission....

It's not that the government or the troops are keeping some thing from you, it's that most refuse to believe that in bad things can happen in war....Most of these young kids are full of piss and vingar, thinking war is going to be cool , one big vidio game...training for Afgan puts everything into prospective, it's when you step on to the herc for the final leg into afgan reality hits home hard, you adrinal starts pumping ....you know it's real when you don all your gear and they hand you a combat load of live ammo as you board the aircraft, no customs check or x ray machine here....then 3 days later your outside the wire where anything can happen at any time....And after 6 months these same kids decide they have had enough....and go on to try something else in thier lifes....they are not hero's just kids serving thier country, military life is not for everyone, but i do respect them for trying.

This next Roto will have mean that every member in the RCR will have served in Afgan, thats 3 BNs worth of men and women have seved atleast once, the avg for the entire regt is 2 to 3 tours already served, with alot on thier 4 or 5 tours....

Thank you for your concern.

[Leafless]

Leafless:

Don't let anyone fool you leafless, war is war, this one is no different than any others...Canada does have her own agenda, her own interests in being involved in Afganistan. It's funney i never thought you were a "this is a US war and US problem" type of guy...

Technically, this is a U.S. lead attack.

The word war, primarily defined by by the Concise Oxford Dictionary is : " armed hostilities between esp. nations."

Slaughter like sheep, abnormal tactics including suicide bomber...something like wading ashore during dieppe , or normandy....that kind of slaugter, when the first wave suffered 75% cas....or do you mean it's slaughter because you don't know when your going to get blown up....

Surley you are not comparing the primitive military actions of first wave troops to modern military expertize of 2008 whereas sacrificial offerings of this nature no longer exist in modern warfare.

Slaughter is slaughter and this is what is happening in Afghanistan where our troops are exposed to needless and unnecessary barbaric type primitive attacks.

Every Canadian soldier that has died is a loss that effects us all, but it is in no means a slaughter....

So you disagree with the Afgan war, but agree with widening it's scope...i'm confused...

IMO, this attack on terrorists and cleansing these terrorist in foreign lands will never be acccomplished. Why pop gun it out in the middle of no where against these murderous groups when major countries are to blame for their activities.

The onus should be placed on these countries that harbour these terrorist and impose a U.N. time limit for these countries to clean up their act and rid their respective countries of these murderous terrorist.

If in fact this cannot be accomplished, then a concensus should be reached on declaring war on these countries, a push button war, on suspected areas, with clean up crews sent in a a later date.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Leafless

[White Doors]

technically, it's a UN led attack..

[Leafless]

technically, it's a UN led attack..

Factually, without the U.S. there would be no attack.

[White Doors]

Factually, without the U.S. there would be no attack.

But you said technically. Factually, I agree.

[Borg]

Are we talking about Afghanistan?

It is NATO - not the UN. We are there because the libs demanded a place in the line up.

We have increased our presence due to the Conservatives and Ranger Rick / The Big Cod / Gen Hillier - and I support the increased presence. We can argue that under a differrent thread.

The US of A are major players as despite NATO being a "coalition force" the Euros as a whole usually have to have their asses saved by the standard few - US of A, Brits, Oz and canucks. Nothing has changed and likely nothing will ever change.

NATO voted to do this - the west jumped in as required under the NATO agreement and the Euros - as to be expected - became the weak sisters.

Regards

Borg