Multiculturism is a huge failure

[Argus]

Try reading the the Old Testament. God was pretty nasty back then.

True, but even the fundamentalist Christians don't observe or want us to observe the violent creed taught in the old testament. Christianity has grown up. Islam is frozen in medieval times and refuses to change.

[Argus]

You nailed it, Muslims are a problem because Islam is not a religion, it is a political ideology that will not accept assimilation or compromise. They have been nothing but a problem since Islam was founded in the 7th century.

You are only partly right. Islam today is a political ideology, but it is also a religion. That makes it much more dangerous. It is both wrapped together.

[jbg]

I am old enough to have experienced several generations of immigrants settling in Canada, it usually takes until the third generation before we see full integration, by the fourth generation most of its youth cannot speak its mother tongue.

My grandparents/great-grandparents learned English right away and their children spoke only flawless, unaccented English, i.e. my father, and my maternal grandmother and grandfather. All of those have parents from Europe. Are you saying it isn't before the fourth generation that most speak only Canadian and not other languages?

Muslims refuse to assimilate and isolate themselves. It is not unusual in Europe for Muslims not being able to speak a nation’s national language despite being born in that country. Most of the youth rioting in Europe are third and fourth generation Muslims.

That is a very serious problem. I seriously think that Western countries, by subsidizing this through social welfare are committing suicide. Granted, they have no method of not allowing it, but they don't have to subsidize it, or conduct school classes in any other than language of European country.

[jbg]

That is exactly the problem. We aren't united at all, there is very little unity to speak of whatsoever. That is is the underlying issue that prompted me to start this topic.

Multiculturalism is a form of segregation not integration. The majority of new immigrants do not interact with any culture outside of their own.

Which brings me to another post of yours that I find somewhat painful to have to address:

Jews were persecuted by every nation before WWII, even Canada. Nobody would allow them into their nations, wel it was difficult for them to enter new nations to be sure. After WWII and Germany, not Europe, that changed or they would probably still be in the same position previous to WWII. Today jews hold a lot of power and can influence a lot of the vote, why do you think so many political parties pander to them, certainly it isn't to be pc that would be extremely naive.

You are condemning Jews for doing what you seem to want other immigrants to do, i.e. get involved with their new country, i.e. Canada and leave their past at the door. The Jews have done just that. The Jews "hold a lot of power and can influence a lot of the vote" for the signal reason that they quickly learn the new country language and culture and join it. Their emphasis on education and participation in turn leads to success.

If you're asking the Jews to then not make some requests, i.e. alliance with Israel (which after all constitutes a huge Western forward base in a vital and dangerous part of the world) you are asking too much. The Jews, alone among peoples are the world, were marked for extinction for the reason that they refused to alter their private lives. The Jews, in all respects, conformed to each host countries' laws and customs. We lost 1/3 of our numbers in the Holocaust, and given that we tend to have two and occasionally three children per family, we have not and likely will not recover our numbers, much less our previous percentage in the world population. We do not want to head the way of the Bahais or Zoroastorians, peoples that are interesting but largely irrelevant in the scheme of things.

[Qwerty]

JBG, you need to re-read my last 2 posts...

This excerpt from my post previous to the above was in reference that you said that Europe had turned on the Jews when that was incorrect. I was drawing parallels showing that in fact it was world view of the time by every civilized nation including Canada. In no way am I slamming Jews and my post doesn't reflect that at all. Please stick to the facts and not fantasy...thank you.

Jews were persecuted by every nation before WWII, even Canada. Nobody would allow them into their nations, wel it was difficult for them to enter new nations to be sure. After WWII and Germany, not Europe, that changed or they would probably still be in the same position previous to WWII. Today jews hold a lot of power and can influence a lot of the vote, why do you think so many political parties pander to them, certainly it isn't to be pc that would be extremely naive.

Even when faced with persecution the Jews made attempts to integrate was the point of my post. I guess I need to write out every little thing for some of our members aren't smart enough to think for themselves and must be spoon fed every tid bit by hand.

That is exactly the problem. We aren't united at all, there is very little unity to speak of whatsoever. That is is the underlying issue that prompted me to start this topic.

Multiculturalism is a form of segregation not integration. The majority of new immigrants do not interact with any culture outside of their own. Each settling in their own area of their respective cities and not integrating into society. With integration they'd be able to better share their culture with the masses and better help the majority understand them in turn enriching this country. As it stands now that is not happening as each ethnic group simply resides within their own respective communities and ventures out very seldom. To see the multicultural agenda as a success and flawless and not in need of improvment is to me naive.

I'm not thinking of today but twenty years down the road. If we continue in this matter all of our major cities could be divided by racial lines. A sort of tribalism. As these self segregated ethnic communities will only grow as the majority of our current immigration is from the second and third world and the government gives us no indication that this is to change. Racially and/or religiously divided cities does not give me a sense of unity I'm sorry. Perhaps my sense of unity differs from others.


I don't see this as unity at all but a failed experiment that is in and of itself a very old idea to begin with that is in need of a face lift and an up to date application.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Qwerty

[jbg]

JBG, you need to re-read my last 2 posts...

This excerpt from my post previous to the above was in reference that you said that Europe had turned on the Jews when that was incorrect. I was drawing parallels showing that in fact it was world view of the time by every civilized nation including Canada. In no way am I slamming Jews and my post doesn't reflect that at all. Please stick to the facts and not fantasy...thank you.

Jews were persecuted by every nation before WWII, even Canada. Nobody would allow them into their nations, wel it was difficult for them to enter new nations to be sure. After WWII and Germany, not Europe, that changed or they would probably still be in the same position previous to WWII. Today jews hold a lot of power and can influence a lot of the vote, why do you think so many political parties pander to them, certainly it isn't to be pc that would be extremely naive.

That is exactly the problem. We aren't united at all, there is very little unity to speak of whatsoever. That is is the underlying issue that prompted me to start this topic.

"Pander" isn't a slam? We seem to agree on a lot of topics and indeed I welcome you to the Board. I just have to make sure we understand each other.

[Black Dog]

Multiculturalism is a form of segregation not integration. The majority of new immigrants do not interact with any culture outside of their own. Each settling in their own area of their respective cities and not integrating into society. With integration they'd be able to better share their culture with the masses and better help the majority understand them in turn enriching this country. As it stands now that is not happening as each ethnic group simply resides within their own respective communities and ventures out very seldom. To see the multicultural agenda as a success and flawless and not in need of improvment is to me naive.

And how is this a byproduct of multicultralist policy? What specific policy promotes ethnic segregation? Ethnic enclaves exist everywhere, whether the nation is a melting pot or multicultralist.

I'm not thinking of today but twenty years down the road. If we continue in this matter all of our major cities could be divided by racial lines. A sort of tribalism. As these self segregated ethnic communities will only grow as the majority of our current immigration is from the second and third world and the government gives us no indication that this is to change. Racially and/or religiously divided cities does not give me a sense of unity I'm sorry. Perhaps my sense of unity differs from others.

Yes I see a chilling future where there are Chinatowns, Little Italies, Africavilles...oh wait. Those already exist.

True, but even the fundamentalist Christians don't observe or want us to observe the violent creed taught in the old testament. Christianity has grown up. Islam is frozen in medieval times and refuses to change.

So you're saying a Muslim from Iraq is the same as a Mulsim from Indonesia is the same as a Muslim from Michigan.

The Jews, alone among peoples are the world, were marked for extinction for the reason that they refused to alter their private lives. The Jews, in all respects, conformed to each host countries' laws and customs.

It seems to me much of the anti-Muslim hysteria births stereotypes that closely resemble traditional anti-Semetic tropes. Much of the stuff on this topic of late The blanket generalizations, the bigotted assumptions that "those people" (regardless of national origin) are up to no good, the demands that they relinquish their own cultural and religious traditions. Change Muslim to Jew on many of these posts and you'd end up with something straight ouit of Der Sturmer circa 1936.

[Leafless]

And how is this a byproduct of multicultralist policy? What specific policy promotes ethnic segregation? Ethnic enclaves exist everywhere, whether the nation is a melting pot or multicultralist.

Multiculturalism allows Islam.

Islam promotes its followers to exist in enclaves to support Islamic beliefs...mosques and who really knows what else.

Yes I see a chilling future where there are Chinatowns, Little Italies, Africavilles...oh wait. Those already exist.

Yes, guided by cultural interest NOT involving Islam.

It seems to me much of the anti-Muslim hysteria births stereotypes that closely resemble traditional anti-Semetic tropes. Much of the stuff on this topic of late The blanket generalizations, the bigotted assumptions that "those people" (regardless of national origin) are up to no good, the demands that they relinquish their own cultural and religious traditions. Change Muslim to Jew on many of these posts and you'd end up with something straight ouit of Der Sturmer circa 1936.

And for a reason.

Up to now Jews have incorporated brains vs ICBM's, (Intercontinental Ballistic Muslims).

Vast difference.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Leafless

[bush_cheney2004]

And for a reason.

Up to now Jews have incorporated brains vs ICBM's, (Intercontinental Ballistic Muslims).

Vast difference.

Hey, I like that play on words.....ICBM's....bravo!

[jbg]

Up to now Jews have incorporated brains vs ICBM's, (Intercontinental Ballistic Muslims).

I second BC2004 in liking that play on words. Can I quote that in www.freerepublic.com or www.rightnation.us, boards on which I play the role of a left-wing troll?

[Qwerty]

"Pander" isn't a slam? We seem to agree on a lot of topics and indeed I welcome you to the Board. I just have to make sure we understand each other.

Th Jewish vote is crucial to any government in order to win. Peter Manbridge said so himself Thursday night's edition of "The National". Ignatiaff went to the Jewish council in Montreal to apologize for comments made earlier in the week.

[Zachary Young]

The first post was not so thinly veiled racism and I'm not going to read this thread because I'm sure it's more of the same. We should adopt a policy of open borders and allow anyone who wishes to immigrate to do so - but before we do this we must abolish the welfare state, although even if we didn't it would collapse within a few years of an open border regime as it became rapidly untenable - but this would be a chaotic transition and undesirable.

[jbg]

The first post was not so thinly veiled racism and I'm not going to read this thread because I'm sure it's more of the same. We should adopt a policy of open borders and allow anyone who wishes to immigrate to do so - but before we do this we must abolish the welfare state, although even if we didn't it would collapse within a few years of an open border regime as it became rapidly untenable - but this would be a chaotic transition and undesirable.

Your views are totally in accord with mine. if Europe and Canada didn't have cradle-to-grave welfare your Muslim/South Asian immigrants would be as good as those coming to the US; the envy of the world. Our Pakistani immigrants work hard, their children play with US-born Americans, and are in general quite the asset to our country. I am not against immigrants; only those that don't want to work.

[WarBicycle]

My grandparents/great-grandparents learned English right away and their children spoke only flawless, unaccented English, i.e. my father, and my maternal grandmother and grandfather. All of those have parents from Europe. Are you saying it isn't before the fourth generation that most speak only Canadian and not other languages?

The second generation Italians I grew up with spoke flawless English, but retained an Italian identity. Many of their children married non-Italians, and their offspring, the fourth generation, are in their early to mid teens. Most cannot speak or understand Italian, and you will not find many guys named Luigi in that generation.

Edited April 20, 2008 by WarBicycle

[DangerMouse]

The first post was not so thinly veiled racism and I'm not going to read this thread because I'm sure it's more of the same. We should adopt a policy of open borders and allow anyone who wishes to immigrate to do so - but before we do this we must abolish the welfare state, although even if we didn't it would collapse within a few years of an open border regime as it became rapidly untenable - but this would be a chaotic transition and undesirable.

Zach! Don't believe everything you think! It's happened enough in this world already with all the wacked out leaders. SOme people come on here claiming tht the plight of natives is all their fault yet all the government laws, policies etc were written by whites and look how bloody messed up it is.. Relax! Go have another beer

[daniel]

It's their raison d'etre to whine about multiculturalism otherwise this forum would cease to exist. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised in Qwerty was Islamic and these posting are just to stir the pot to gauge the reaction of this site.

[Qwerty]

It's their raison d'etre to whine about multiculturalism otherwise this forum would cease to exist. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised in Qwerty was Islamic and these posting are just to stir the pot to gauge the reaction of this site.

It isn't whining and it isn't racist to think that our borders are too open and that the immigrants that do come over need to integrate while retaining their culture. I am not at all against to immigration but I think any sane person would agree that it our immigration policy as well as our "official" multicultural policy needs updating to reflect the current world view and not that of the world in 1981.

I ask that Canada only let in the types of skilled workers we need and cut down on the family immigrants which make up 70% of those that we do allow, many of them elderly who will only drain our system. I pay my taxes all my life and an elderly immigrant who hasn't paid into the system gets the benefits for free while being too old to work and contribute? That isn't fair.

Also if someone is going to sponser someone to come here I believe that they have a duty to pay for all of their expenses if they cannot and that person needs to go on welfare they shouldn't be allowed in to drain our social system further, end of.

If you would read all of posts in this topic which many of you are too lazy to do you would see my progressive points which are well thought through and well written arguments. If you want to see whining go to Stormfront.

[Wild Bill]

It isn't whining and it isn't racist to think that our borders are too open and that the immigrants that do come over need to integrate while retaining their culture. I am not at all against to immigration but I think any sane person would agree that it our immigration policy as well as our "official" multicultural policy needs updating to reflect the current world view and not that of the world in 1981.

I ask that Canada only let in the types of skilled workers we need and cut down on the family immigrants which make up 70% of those that we do allow, many of them elderly who will only drain our system. I pay my taxes all my life and an elderly immigrant who hasn't paid into the system gets the benefits for free while being too old to work and contribute? That isn't fair.

Also if someone is going to sponser someone to come here I believe that they have a duty to pay for all of their expenses if they cannot and that person needs to go on welfare they shouldn't be allowed in to drain our social system further, end of.

If you would read all of posts in this topic which many of you are too lazy to do you would see my progressive points which are well thought through and well written arguments. If you want to see whining go to Stormfront.

+1! I get so tired of people who defend the present system by saying "Immigrants built this country!" When 70% of new immigrants are grandmothers and grandfathers, how many houses do you think they can build?

They can each easily cast a vote for the Liberals, of course.

[daniel]

It isn't whining...

Actually it is. There was a report published in October 16, 2006 that investigated children who whine and those who don't. The whiners grow up to be Republicans.

So you're doing a good job portraying right-wing fanaticism. Keep stirring the pot.

[Qwerty]

Actually it is. There was a report published in October 16, 2006 that investigated children who whine and those who don't. The whiners grow up to be Republicans.

So you're doing a good job portraying right-wing fanaticism. Keep stirring the pot.

If you don't have any well thought out and well written statements to add then please do not bother replying to my thread. I consider this spam and you will be reported for such a blatant disregard for forum rules.

Btw we are in Canada and do not have Democrats or Republicans. That would make a conservative not a GOP member. In addition I shall educate you one more time. If you compare the polices of the CPC and the GOP and Democrats you will find that the CPC is closer to the Democrats of the USA and not the GOP. A common misconception actually is that the Democrats are likened to the Liberal Party of Canada by Canadian people. This couldn't be further from ther truth as the Liberal Party offical policy is far too left wing for the Democrats of the USA.

Have a nice day.

[bush_cheney2004]

Btw we are in Canada and do not have Democrats or Republicans. That would make a conservative not a GOP member. In addition I shall educate you one more time. If you compare the polices of the CPC and the GOP and Democrats you will find that the CPC is closer to the Democrats of the USA and not the GOP....

This is true, but since the poor souls have been out of power, their only respite comes in using the American political parties as surrogates, no matter how confused the associations may be.

[Oleg Bach]

+1! I get so tired of people who defend the present system by saying "Immigrants built this country!" When 70% of new immigrants are grandmothers and grandfathers, how many houses do you think they can build?

They can each easily cast a vote for the Liberals, of course.

After a generation, you are not an immigrant. You are a native. Immigration at one time was by design meant to populate areas that were totally emtpy. That - I agree with. Once a nation or area is functioning at an optimal level and all persons are prosperous and safe..there is no reason to bring in more people. If the quality of life is high, leave it as such! Back in the 50's and 60s all was perfect. Immigration as we know it does not improve the quality of life in Canada. I have said this repeatedly that todays immigration lowers the quality of life for all including fairly new arrivals. Immigration is now strickly based on greed via cheap labour. Only a small select group benefits...these guys that have the power to effect government in order to bring in more people are internationalist by nature and have no respect or loyalty to Canada and it's people.

..They don't give a damn if we are degraded to a thrid world nation...and in time with immigration roaring ahead - we will decline and not prosper...once we are crowded, the system degrades and breaks down - with the loss of Christain doctrine that has been displaced by corporate secularism AND the fact that multicuturalism through liberal brain washing actually destroys all CULTURE....Corporations and the powers that be do not want culture..the elite dispise culture whether is be music, art or familiar tradion..they want slaves with no culture and that is what is forming in this former great nation. Christianity was the mortar that held civil society together and the jerks made short work of watering down the mortar to soupy mud! Multiculturalism is the greatest pandering manipulation ever released on a people..it is utiltarianism and in time Draconian as our good and real identity is destroyed by these Trotskyite lunitics and half baked social engineers.

[jazzer]

+1! I get so tired of people who defend the present system by saying "Immigrants built this country!" When 70% of new immigrants are grandmothers and grandfathers, how many houses do you think they can build?

They can each easily cast a vote for the Liberals, of course.

Obviously you didn't have grandparents like I did that, who along with their European brethren did indeed build up this country. I think the inference was to original immigrants who just wanted a free country to come to, to work hard, and to be left alone. My grandfolks never spoke Norwegian again once they arrived.

[Qwerty]

Obviously you didn't have grandparents like I did that, who along with their European brethren did indeed build up this country. I think the inference was to original immigrants who just wanted a free country to come to, to work hard, and to be left alone. My grandfolks never spoke Norwegian again once they arrived.

Jazzer, is that the same attitude that today's immigrants have towards our country?

[jazzer]

Jazzer, is that the same attitude that today's immigrants have towards our country?

I'm just responding to the "immigrants built our country." It's a different time now, and no, I'm not happy with the baggage the current lot seem to bring with them.