Multiculturism is a huge failure

[Argus]

Do you ? Have more to go on, I mean ? Or do you just live somewhere where times are tough, people are bitter, the economy is bad, and everybody is white possibly ? I add that last part because in my experience, the places that worry about multiculturalism the most don't have any. For some reason.

You mean like southern BC, where they're upset at all the commercial signs in foreign languages?

And hey, weren't all you blissfully multicultural torontonians worried about getting caught in the crossfire between all your Jamaican drug gangs not so long ago?

Edited November 4, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

You mean like southern BC, where they're upset at all the commercial signs in foreign languages?

Why does that make them upset ?

[The_Squid]

Why does that make them upset ?

and who is "they"?

[guyser]

You mean like southern BC, where they're upset at all the commercial signs in foreign languages?

You mean like Markham?

Fine by me, a grocery store looks like a grocery store no matter what name is on the marquee.

And hey, weren't all you blissfully multicultural torontonians worried about getting caught in the crossfire between all your Jamaican drug gangs not so long ago?

I think there are really only two, and frankly I dont know a soul who is worried about gang activity. People are always worried about thugs, but there is no escaping them in any city, in fact anywhere.

[Argus]

Why does that make them upset ?

Because they feel like the place is no longer their home, like they're in a foreign country.

[Argus]

and who is "they"?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/19/richmond-b-c-considers-banning-chinese-only-signs-amid-uproar-over-citys-un-canadian-advertisements/

[Michael Hardner]

Because they feel like the place is no longer their home, like they're in a foreign country.

I think that's their problem then. Government isn't invented to improve peoples' feelings. They clearly don't have enough problems, if looking at a commercial sign in Chinese makes them upset.

[Argus]

I think that's their problem then. Government isn't invented to improve peoples' feelings.

No, government was elected to take care of the things the people want taken care of, and most especially democratic government was put in power to abide by the wishes of the people. To say 'that's their problem' is patently silly. If a significant number of people are concerned then it becomes government's problem.

[Michael Hardner]

To say 'that's their problem' is patently silly. If a significant number of people are concerned then it becomes government's problem.

Well, you're right. Condo boards and local governments sure have passed dumber laws than "Chinese Restaurant signs must be in English", leaving out the obvious Quebec example.

[Argus]

Well, you're right. Condo boards and local governments sure have passed dumber laws than "Chinese Restaurant signs must be in English", leaving out the obvious Quebec example.

Why do we leave out the obvious Quebec example? Isn't that dumb? Or is that acceptable?

Besides, you're ignoring the actual point, which is that a significant number of people are upset because they feel this flood of foreigners is taking over their country and it doesn't seem like the place they grew up in any more.

70% of the population of Richmond is foreign born. I bet thirty or forty years ago it was more like 3%. That's a huge change to someone who has lived there all their lives. You can't simply dismiss them as if their concerns had no validity.

I haven't been to Toronto for a while now, but the last time I was there I had trouble making myself understood in English to service personnel at the hotel and at stores and restaurants. I was very much not impressed. More than half of Toronto are foreign born too, I know.

I've said it before, in the great majority of countries on Earth if this many foreigners were brought in there'd be blood in the street, starting with the leaders who brought them in. I'm certainly not advocating for any kind of violence but to suggest that even being unhappy with the results is an illegitimate concern is pretty damned arrogant.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Why do we leave out the obvious Quebec example? Isn't that dumb? Or is that acceptable?

I guess it's both. Do you like Quebec's language laws ?

Besides, you're ignoring the actual point, which is that a significant number of people are upset because they feel this flood of foreigners is taking over their country and it doesn't seem like the place they grew up in any more.

I don't know how significant it is.

The country doesn't seem like the place I grew up either, but immigration isn't on my list of concerns. I don't think it's legitimate, is what I'm saying. People not speaking English is something you can work around IMO.

I've said it before, in the great majority of countries on Earth if this many foreigners were brought in there'd be blood in the street, starting with the leaders who brought them in. I'm certainly not advocating for any kind of violence but to suggest that even being unhappy with the results is an illegitimate concern is pretty damned arrogant.

I do think it's illegitimate. I'm sorry but I do. It reflects people being xenophobic and not wanting change, from what I can see. I can't relate to that at all. As I said, if seeing a non-English sign is your biggest problem, you're doing pretty well in my books.

I lived in France, and they are cursed with having the same land and people for thousands of years so it's ingrained in them that there's a long French tradition that should feel right to protect, etc. I think it smacks of chauvinism and nationalism. It's just not for me.

[Hudson Jones]

Besides, you're ignoring the actual point, which is that a significant number of people are upset because they feel this flood of foreigners is taking over their country and it doesn't seem like the place they grew up in any more.

"Significant number of people.."

On your block? Or in Canada? Do you have statistics on this significant number of people or are you, once again, trying to pass off the voices in your head as statistics and facts?

[Argus]

"Significant number of people.."

On your block? Or in Canada? Do you have statistics on this significant number of people or are you, once again, trying to pass off the voices in your head as statistics and facts?

I think I specifically referred to Richmond and posted a cite to that effect. Maybe when your knee stops jerking so wildly you can have a look at that and try and say something intelligent for a change.

[Argus]

I do think it's illegitimate. I'm sorry but I do. It reflects people being xenophobic and not wanting change, from what I can see.

Really? You don't think there are any practical affects to becoming a stranger in your country, not being able to communicate effectively, your kids not being able to find work because they don't speak the language of the new majority?

What exactly does it mean to not want change? You're making a very strong inference here that change is good. Always. Every time. All change is always good. So anyone who doesn 't love change, well, there's something wrong with them! That is clearly your attitude, despite the reality that sometimes change sometimes sucks pretty badly for a lot of people.

Then too, it's been shown time and again that people basically like living amongst their own kind, not merely here but everywhere on earth. People, by and large, like to have comfortable surroundings where people are, more or less like them, where they share a certain sense of community, speak the same language, have the same cultural touchstones and values, etc. etc. Clearly you, of course, are above such dreary concerns, but not everyone is.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Argus

[Hudson Jones]

I think I specifically referred to Richmond and posted a cite to that effect. Maybe when your knee stops jerking so wildly you can have a look at that and try and say something intelligent for a change.

Your foxnews character is in full effect. Not only you are passing the thoughts in your head as the voice of Canada, but you're also failing to read the posts. Pay attention please:

You said: significant number of people are upset because they feel this flood of foreigners

Where do you get this "significant number of people" from? How many Canadians are scared of foreigners and foreign born Canadians like you are?

[guyser]

Besides, you're ignoring the actual point, which is that a significant number of people are upset because they feel this flood of foreigners is taking over their country and it doesn't seem like the place they grew up in any more.

Lets look at this...'significant number of people'

Your link said 1000 people signed it. Theres 175,000 people live there. So......wanna know how miniscule that significant number is?

70% of the population of Richmond is foreign born.

Probably true, but lets use the stats in the article...over half are Chinese. Chinese.....I think they speak chinese.

But lets go to the article you linked where it says...."Nobody will dispute that the number of Chinese-only signs in Richmond is increasing, but the vast majority still feature English text.

“There aren’t really that many signs that are Chinese-only in the city overall,” said Judy Chern, a lifelong Richmondite with a passing understanding of Chinese characters."

I bet thirty or forty years ago it was more like 3%. That's a huge change to someone who has lived there all their lives. You can't simply dismiss them as if their concerns had no validity.

To a large degree one can. There are so few signs only in Mandarin or Cantonese as to make this a silly argument.Not to mention there is english on almost all the signs shown. The ones in chinese only are for specialists chinese stores. Its really not a problem unless some richmondites have an issue with which they will use signs to mask the true reason.

I haven't been to Toronto for a while now, but the last time I was there I had trouble making myself understood in English to service personnel at the hotel and at stores and restaurants. I was very much not impressed. More than half of Toronto are foreign born too, I know.

Its amazing how a tourist on a few days visit gets every single non english service personnel that sucks at English, yet one who has lived here almost all his life rarely....as in maybe once every other year, finds the same service personnel .

I've said it before, in the great majority of countries on Earth if this many foreigners were brought in there'd be blood in the street, starting with the leaders who brought them in. I'm certainly not advocating for any kind of violence ...

Ya know, youre probably right.

And you know why? Because multiculturalism has been a huge success in this country.

[Argus]

Lets look at this...'significant number of people'

Your link said 1000 people signed it. Theres 175,000 people live there. So......wanna know how miniscule that significant number is?

Significant enough to get council to unanimously direct their lawyers to figure out how to pass such a sign law?

You know as well as I do that for every person who calls in a complaint or signs anything there are ten or more who don't.

But lets go to the article you linked where it says...."Nobody will dispute that the number of Chinese-only signs in Richmond is increasing, but the vast majority still feature English text.

Okay, you're missing the point, as well. I don't give a crap about what language the signs are in Richmond BC, so don't argue the point with me. If you read when I posted this it was in response to the suggestion nobody had any issues with multiculturalism and everyone was peachy and happy. I posted it as an example that no, not everyone IS delighted to find that 70% (or even 50%) of their city is now occupied by foreign born people with entirely foreign views, beliefs, habits, etc.

You won't hear much about them because most of the media has the same sort of attitude as MH does, which is that such views are not legitimate, not entitled to be aired, and almost nobody holds them anyway.

Its amazing how a tourist on a few days visit gets every single non english service personnel that sucks at English, yet one who has lived here almost all his life rarely....as in maybe once every other year, finds the same service personnel .

How many Toronto hotels do you stay at?

And you know why? Because multiculturalism has been a huge success in this country.

There's no evidence to support that statement. Every European country which has introduced it has now said it's been a huge failure. Edited November 6, 2014 by Argus

[On Guard for Thee]

This country is slowing bursting at the seems, but for some reason a lot of people are in denial, can't admit to a failed liberal policy.

"Bursting at the seems"? Evidently you are ignorant of both this countries geography and it's population. Perhaps of the litany of CPC scandals as well.

[Argus]

"Bursting at the seems"? Evidently you are ignorant of both this countries geography and it's population. Perhaps of the litany of CPC scandals as well.

I believe he meant liberal as in small l liberal.

And if you live around Toronto or Vancouver you could legitimately say the place is pretty crowded.

Not so much the arctic tundra, of course, but that's not where immigrants settle anyway.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Argus

[Hudson Jones]

If you're too stupid to read the posts and see what's being discussed then go talk to someone else.

It's mostly because I have a habit of skipping your misinformed posts. I missed the link you posted of the 1000 signatures... which in your mind, are significant number of people in Richmond.

You have a terrible habit of making things up.

[On Guard for Thee]

I believe he meant liberal as in small l liberal.

And if you live around Toronto or Vancouver you could legitimately say the place is pretty crowded.

Not so much the arctic tundra, of course, but that's not where immigrants settle anyway.

I don't give a shit what he meant. I grew up in TO and later moved to Van. I have lived from coast to coast and abroad. I love the education I acquired from those opportunities.This thread is a bit sick. But the rednecks love it so carry on.

[Big Guy]

I am glad to see that the majority on this board are not racists and call out xenophobia when they see it. Anonymous boards are notorious as a breeding ground for cowards who spread their xenophobic hate without the control of being held accountable for it.

Kudos to you all.

[WestCoastRunner]

Jews find a way to make it to the polls. Many Muslims and other "visible minorities" don't.

They can be traitors at any time. How do we know they're not sending money back to ISIS?

What did people expect by forcing people of different cultures to live together and put up with each other. It has failed everywhere and it is going to rip this country apart.

This country is slowing bursting at the seems, but for some reason a lot of people are in denial, can't admit to a failed liberal policy.

1) Updating the Citizenship Guide to better reflect what is acceptable/not acceptable - defining Canadian values a little better.

I am sure it is not that rosey when you get to the immigrant getto's. And now that there is more then 275.000 coming, where most will end up in TO. The day will come when it is going to burst at the seems.

The problem is, they say we need more people to work out west ,but yet most immigrants head to TO or other big cities. And I thought crime was waaaay down when you listen to the lefties and we don't need anymore tough on crime measures. I think people are in denial on how bad it is going to get. I will never change my mind on it.

And hey, weren't all you blissfully multicultural torontonians worried about getting caught in the crossfire between all your Jamaican drug gangs not so long ago?

Because they feel like the place is no longer their home, like they're in a foreign country.

I've said it before, in the great majority of countries on Earth if this many foreigners were brought in there'd be blood in the street, starting with the leaders who brought them in. I'm certainly not advocating for any kind of violence but to suggest that even being unhappy with the results is an illegitimate concern is pretty damned arrogant.

I think I specifically referred to Richmond and posted a cite to that effect. Maybe when your knee stops jerking so wildly you can have a look at that and try and say something intelligent for a change.

Really? You don't think there are any practical affects to becoming a stranger in your country, not being able to communicate effectively, your kids not being able to find work because they don't speak the language of the new majority?

What exactly does it mean to not want change? You're making a very strong inference here that change is good. Always. Every time. All change is always good. So anyone who doesn 't love change, well, there's something wrong with them! That is clearly your attitude, despite the reality that sometimes change sometimes sucks pretty badly for a lot of people.

Then too, it's been shown time and again that people basically like living amongst their own kind, not merely here but everywhere on earth. People, by and large, like to have comfortable surroundings where people are, more or less like them, where they share a certain sense of community, speak the same language, have the same cultural touchstones and values, etc. etc. Clearly you, of course, are above such dreary concerns, but not everyone is.

If you're too stupid to read the posts and see what's being discussed then go talk to someone else.

How many Toronto hotels do you stay at?

There's no evidence to support that statement. Every European country which has introduced it has now said it's been a huge failure.

I thought this board had well educated posters. I must have been misinformed.

[Big Guy]

There are. You must just be patient and more selective.

[On Guard for Thee]

Nice job WCR, for doing the work to point out the junk I was referring to.